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October 7, 2009, 03:11 PM | #26 | |
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October 7, 2009, 06:24 PM | #27 | |
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Nice. So you committed a felony, violating 18 USC 922(a)(5) and the recipient, a LEO, committed a felony, violating 18 USC 922(a)(3). Physical location of the parties involved in the transfer does not matter. What state of residency the parties have is what matters. And I mean very nice of an FFL to tell you that, ESPECIALLY when he could have made money on the deal for merely filling out a form and making a phone call to make it legal. |
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April 11, 2011, 08:29 AM | #28 |
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Before everyone starts questioning everyones post I would just like to clear up that almost everyone has said the same thing and they are all right for the most part. You can in fact own a handgun under the age of 21 but you can not carry it on your person at anytime for any reason. You can transport it to and from a shooting facility and you can carry it in your vehicle at all times but in order to do so you must have it either a) holstered and in your glovebox b) in it's designated carrying case or c) you can have it in a holster in a ziplock bag and place it on the seat next to you in the vehicle as long as it's not touching your person. But from what I have been told by many state officials, swat members, and local law enforcement you can only be gifted a handgun by someone in your family unless otherwise arranged by your legal gaurdians(patents).
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April 11, 2011, 08:53 AM | #29 | |
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I would be VERY surprised if Florida state law says anything about giving (when did "gift" become a verb) a firearm to minors that's different from giving firearms in general, irrespective of age. To whatever extent Florida state law addresses giving firearms to minors (or to adults between 18 and 21), I doubt very much that such gifts can come only from relatives. We need a citation of the actual statute for your information to have any validity. |
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April 11, 2011, 09:42 AM | #30 |
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??? If you are over 18 years of age, wouldn't you be your own legal guardian? How can a parent or former guardian authorize something for an adult?
And, I don't recall the OP stating anything about the recipient being under 21. I guess this is all purely academic, anway... |
April 11, 2011, 11:03 AM | #31 | ||||||
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Thanks for bringing up the ol' dead thread... But your reply needs some factualizing...
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Actually, if it can be viewed and identified as a "gun", IT MUST NOT BE IN PLAIN VIEW!!! Quote:
Brent |
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May 30, 2011, 01:07 AM | #32 |
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The person receiving the handgun does not have to be 21 years of age. The person needs to be 18 years of age. You need to be 21 by federal law to purchase a handgun from any FFL holder. NavyLT, you cant necessarily go buy a gun from an FFL and then the same day turn around and give it away to someone else. You sign the form 4473 by agreeing youre the actual purchaser of the firearm. If you bought that firearm the same day and gave it to someone that same day as well, thats a felony. Now, if you wait alittle bit, it probably wouldnt be a big deal the problem is, the law doesnt state how long.
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May 30, 2011, 11:04 AM | #33 | |
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All this assumes, you are residents of the same state, the state allows person to person sales without paperwork, and the receiver is legal to own a gun in the state. |
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May 30, 2011, 11:33 AM | #34 |
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No you really cant. It wouldnt be smart to seriously give a brand new firearm to someone the same day you bought it. Regardless of your intent. No one buys a gun the same day, and then thinks to themselves about giving it away because they didnt like it. No one will believe that, not the ATF, or local LE. Let an ATF agent find out you did that and youll be in jail. No one would believe you if you said it was gift, that includes the ATF or a Prosecutor. Incase you didnt know, the ATF is in business to lock up anyone suspected of breaking firearm laws. The form 4473 clearly states youre the the sole buyer of the firearm and thats what an agent will use against you. Keep in mind, Federal Law also trumps state law. The argument for intent work for the same day give away because the ATF can prove your intent was to simply provide a straw sale purchase.
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Brandon, Soldier, USAR |
May 30, 2011, 11:51 AM | #35 | |
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You are correct that the 4473 asks if you are the actual purchaser of the firearm. It does NOT ask for what purpose you are buying it. If I purchase a handgun for the express purpose of giving it to my wife as a birthday present, I can take the gun home, wrap it in fancy paper with ribbons and bows, and give it to her that same evening. My wife is not a prohibited person, so there is nothing illegal about doing so. You are correct that the law says nothing about how much time must elapse before you can give away a firearm you bought. That's because the law doesn't require any time to elapse. The law is about preventing people who are not allowed to possess (or buy) firearms from getting other people to buy firearms for them. Don't read into the law more than is there. |
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May 30, 2011, 11:57 AM | #36 | |
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From the back of the 4473:
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May 30, 2011, 11:57 AM | #37 |
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No you really cant. It wouldnt be smart to seriously give a brand new firearm to someone the same day you bought it. Let an ATF agent find out you did that and youll be in jail. No one would believe you if you said it was gift, that includes the ATF or a Prosecutor. Incase you didnt know, the ATF are in business to lock up anyone suspected of breaking firearm laws. The form 4473 clearly states youre the the sole buyer of the firearm and thats what an agent will use against you. Keep in mind, Federal Law trumps state law.
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Brandon, Soldier, USAR |
May 30, 2011, 12:13 PM | #38 |
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Brandon.Glidden,
Please cite the U.S. Code or BATF regulation/rule/interpretation that mandates a waiting period between buying a firearm as a gift and the actual gifting of the firearm. |
May 30, 2011, 12:13 PM | #39 | ||||
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Brandon, You are wrong...
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It is my property to do with as I wish so long as I do not violate the law. I was actually in the process of hacking a brand new, unfired single shot 12ga NEF to 18.5 inches and a buddy of mine (VERY TIGHT BUDDY) was amazed at how straight I made the cut with my hand held hack saw. He was further amazed that I was the only person he ever witnessed using a hack saw as designed in that I push cut, lift, draw back and push stroke forward again. I was explaining as I cut it that I was taught by my grampa to make my cuts in this manner and we talked as I finished the cut. I then de-burred the muzzle and he inspected it and when he tried to hand it back I simply said... "Keep it. It is yours... I will buy another tomorrow for my self." Heck it was $89.00 brand new and I was clearing $2k-4k a week with my dump truck operation... When he asked why I would give him a new gun I put the time into... I told him... Cuz you can't a straight line to save yer butt and it would take you half a dozen blades... In truth... It was because he was a tight buddy who would and had put his health and well being aside to do anything to keep me safe as I would do for him. I owned this gun under 24 hours. As for a gun I didn't like... Same deal... there are times I had the cash and a buddy didn't. None ever asked me to break the law. I bought a .357 revolver with a 3 inch barrel (or so) and just didn't like the look nor handling and wished I had waited for a 5 inch to come in rather than impulse buying... Walked into walmart, bought a P-85 ruger and had another buddy meet me at home later that night. I gave him the revolver and all the boxes of ammo I had purchased. I just didn't like the gun and knew my buddy was short of cash and he loved the thing. Why sell to a stranger when I can give it to a TRUE friend. I owned the revolver about 36 hours i reckon. brent |
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May 30, 2011, 01:08 PM | #40 |
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When you buy a firearm for someone else, they still have to fill out a 4473 or no?
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Brandon, Soldier, USAR |
May 30, 2011, 01:24 PM | #41 |
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No they do not... the buyer buying from an FFL fills it out from there any private, in state swaps are void of the 4473 hassle.
Brent |
May 30, 2011, 02:32 PM | #42 | ||
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From the BATFE FAQ site: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/atf-f-4473.html Quote:
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