Stay safe, guys

pax · August 20, 2009, 06:51 PM

Not long ago, I was working a class as an assistant instructor when one of the beginning students on the line had a problem with her revolver. "That sounded weird!" the person next to her called out, as the student raised one hand to get our attention. Hmmmm. Looked like she'd had a squib. Bummer. Well, that's a rarity, but it does happen even to the best ammunition maker sometimes.

"What ammo are you using?" I asked her as I walked her back to the safety area to tend her firearm. She explained that her husband had loaded her ammunition, and pulled out a fresh box to show me. The ammunition was all neatly organized, with a clear label on the lid. Looked like a careful reloader, and as I said, sometimes mistakes do happen.

Just a fluke ... okay, squib hammered out. Upon inspection, there was no harm to the gun, so she's good to go. We let her back on the line.

Ten minutes later, it happened again. Another squib. Huh.

Hammered it out, inspected the gun, and the lead instructor and I did a little soul searching. Finally the lead made the tough call: "No ma'am, we can't let you keep shooting that ammunition. It's too dangerous."

Mercifully, one of our instructors had enough ammunition in the right caliber to carry the student through the remainder of the day, though not without some scrimping. So our student did not lose her entire class experience, although she could and would have if the other ammunition hadn't been available.

The upside was that our beginning students all got a nice object lesson in why so many instructors and ranges are total jerks about allowing reloads on their ranges. The downside? Apart from the physical risk, dealing with this situation took more than 30 minutes away from the student's class time, and provided a distraction she could definitely have done without.

It could have been worse. The weekend before, another instructor I know had a student who managed to blow up his gun with a double charge. No real injuries, thank goodness, but a definite wake up call for everyone involved. Not to mention a healthy adrenaline dump for the instructor who very narrowly missed having his hair parted by vigorously flying gun parts.

With the cost and availability of factory ammunition being what it is these days, there are a lot more people reloading than there used to be. It's easy to forget that some of these folks simply don't yet have the experience or the training to stay safe behind the lever. Please, for the sake of everyone in the shooting world, when you encounter someone new to reloading -- help 'em out. Take them under your wing and help them learn. Teach them about good safety practices and about quality control.

And if you've become lax in your own safety regimen, tighten it up. The life you save could be my own.

pax

mongoose33 · August 20, 2009, 07:23 PM

A good wakeup call.

Farmland · August 20, 2009, 08:17 PM

Some good advice for the new reloaders on the block. In addition even us experience reloaders can take the time to understand your message.

Reloading takes knowledge, understanding and your undivided attention. even the smallest misstep in nay of there could have great consequences. Don't be in a hurry to reload take time to read and understand how it all works. If you can learn from a seasoned reloader. If you don't understand something then stop and find the answer. Don't be in a hurry to work up the most powerful loads.

Some say reloading isn't rocket science but to me it is the closet I can get to sending a projectile to the moon. A beginner should always find their first load data in a book and follow it to the letter. Skimping on good loading books to save a few dollars is the worst decision a reloader can make. Not understanding the relationship between cases, primers, powder along with case sizes and Over all length can get you in trouble. Trying to watch TV while you reloading can kill you.

I can't possible cover every thing for safe reloading in a thread on a forum, however there is a lot of good information on the internet and in books.
here is an example of one site that tries to help the beginner understand the process.

http://hunting.about.com/od/reloadin...eloadindex.htm

It is a great hobby with a good safe track record help keep yourself safe.

Kyo · August 20, 2009, 08:24 PM

im curious what went kaboom. it takes me a few seconds more each round, but after I charge it, I check the inside of the case before I put the bullet on top for 2 reasons.
1- to see if there is powder in it
2- to make sure its not too much/too little. little slow, but i got time

spleify · August 20, 2009, 08:46 PM

Very good lesson to have learned. I'm glad to hear everything turned out good.

Thanks for the heads up.

Zilmo · August 20, 2009, 09:03 PM

I'ts why I don't reload.

paknheat · August 20, 2009, 09:08 PM

Thats why when i reload,i only make a batch of 20, and powder them one at a time. Inspect the case, then place the bullet.Great post Pax.

QBall45 · August 20, 2009, 09:19 PM

Thanks for sharing this story.

It could have been so much worse had the neighbor student not been paying attention.

BillCA · August 20, 2009, 09:26 PM

One thing I learned (for this exact reason) was to do a cartridge case inspection before putting the bullets on the cases. Using a reloading block that'll hold 25 or 50 cases makes this pretty easy. All it requires is a good light source and I found that one of those inexpensive forehead lights does the trick. Look inside - got powder? Yup. Got too much? Nope. Do they look uniform? Yup.

One other place that causes problems is when people handle primers. I used to keep a few alcohol swabs to clean my fingers before I had a reloading tube for primers. Oils from sweat can kill a primer fast. So will case lube or any ordinary oils.

Reloading does require your full attention. It's best not to have the TV running or talk-radio playing to distract you. Don't reload when you're tired and obviously never when you've had a few drinks.

For novices, I recommend buying a 8.5x11 spiral notebook or a hardbound "journal" book. Devote the first dozen pages for favorite loads for specific calibers. The rest of the book should be a log of each time you reload. Included will be what components you used (even by catalog number), charge weight, case brands, etc. If you chrono or shoot your loads, take the book along to record the accuracy & performance. Poor loads you cross out with a red line. Excellent loads you put in the front of the book (with a reference to the loading page). This really does help you in the long run.

gdeal · August 20, 2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

With the cost and availability of factory ammunition being what it is these days, there are a lot more people reloading than there used to be. It's easy to forget that some of these folks simply don't yet have the experience or the training to stay safe behind the lever. Please, for the sake of everyone in the shooting world, when you encounter someone new to reloading -- help 'em out. Take them under your wing and help them learn. Teach them about good safety practices and about quality control.

I think this is one of the best posts I've ever read on the FLF. And I want to personally thank all those (especially FarmLand & BigJimP) who have patiently answered all my questions and didn't just say read the book and stop bothering us. I have some books and I do read them but it's good to ask questions too.

Kyo · August 20, 2009, 10:48 PM

gdeal if you don't ask questions your gonna blow up lol

BigJimP · August 21, 2009, 12:18 PM

You're welcome gdeal - but thanks to the poster, for posting this reminder too.

Its a reminder to all of us - to check - and double check - everything we do when we're reloading.

Only my 2 cents guys - and rigging something on a press, like a mirror, to help you look into a case that has powder in it is not a bad idea so you can still operate a progressive press and stay seated / but with some powders, its still hard to judge if its off 25% ( and that could be a full 1.0 grain ) ... I still come back to the "use a powder check die" on your presses - if they have a station for it / and if you're buying a new press - consider a press that will allow it - and adjust it properly and use it !

But a mirror / or looking into a case - will probably prevent the "no charge" which is what likely caused the issue the poster cited.

oneounceload · August 21, 2009, 12:25 PM

Stories like that are why I cringe every time I see another post from someone who is brand new to this and wants the lowdown on which unit can crank out a bazillion rounds an hour. I picture someone who is used to playing video games with unlimited spray and pray firepower and wants to duplicate in real life.

You have to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run.

Since I use a single stage press, I load 50 at a time, because that is what fits in my loading block. I can look into each and every case whether rifle or pistol and ensure the amount is correct. Almost 30 years with no issues.

Sometimes slow is the way to go.........

Farmland · August 21, 2009, 12:52 PM

Thanks gd, it is just part of the learning process, when I learned there wasn't the internet and I didn't have help. I think it was at least two months before I loaded the first round on my press.

If I have helped I am happy, if you become a better reloader than I then it has been a success.

margiesex · August 21, 2009, 02:08 PM

"For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself."

It can happen to anyone...it behoves us all to police our own selves - and the hobby will take care of itself as it's member's do.

God bless and good (safe) shooting!

Margiesex

And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both, and soon!

August 20, 2009, 06:51 PM	#1
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Stay safe, guys Not long ago, I was working a class as an assistant instructor when one of the beginning students on the line had a problem with her revolver. "That sounded weird!" the person next to her called out, as the student raised one hand to get our attention. Hmmmm. Looked like she'd had a squib. Bummer. Well, that's a rarity, but it does happen even to the best ammunition maker sometimes. "What ammo are you using?" I asked her as I walked her back to the safety area to tend her firearm. She explained that her husband had loaded her ammunition, and pulled out a fresh box to show me. The ammunition was all neatly organized, with a clear label on the lid. Looked like a careful reloader, and as I said, sometimes mistakes do happen. Just a fluke ... okay, squib hammered out. Upon inspection, there was no harm to the gun, so she's good to go. We let her back on the line. Ten minutes later, it happened again. Another squib. Huh. Hammered it out, inspected the gun, and the lead instructor and I did a little soul searching. Finally the lead made the tough call: "No ma'am, we can't let you keep shooting that ammunition. It's too dangerous." Mercifully, one of our instructors had enough ammunition in the right caliber to carry the student through the remainder of the day, though not without some scrimping. So our student did not lose her entire class experience, although she could and would have if the other ammunition hadn't been available. The upside was that our beginning students all got a nice object lesson in why so many instructors and ranges are total jerks about allowing reloads on their ranges. The downside? Apart from the physical risk, dealing with this situation took more than 30 minutes away from the student's class time, and provided a distraction she could definitely have done without. It could have been worse. The weekend before, another instructor I know had a student who managed to blow up his gun with a double charge. No real injuries, thank goodness, but a definite wake up call for everyone involved. Not to mention a healthy adrenaline dump for the instructor who very narrowly missed having his hair parted by vigorously flying gun parts. With the cost and availability of factory ammunition being what it is these days, there are a lot more people reloading than there used to be. It's easy to forget that some of these folks simply don't yet have the experience or the training to stay safe behind the lever. Please, for the sake of everyone in the shooting world, when you encounter someone new to reloading -- help 'em out. Take them under your wing and help them learn. Teach them about good safety practices and about quality control. And if you've become lax in your own safety regimen, tighten it up. The life you save could be my own. pax

August 20, 2009, 09:26 PM	#9
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	One thing I learned (for this exact reason) was to do a cartridge case inspection before putting the bullets on the cases. Using a reloading block that'll hold 25 or 50 cases makes this pretty easy. All it requires is a good light source and I found that one of those inexpensive forehead lights does the trick. Look inside - got powder? Yup. Got too much? Nope. Do they look uniform? Yup. One other place that causes problems is when people handle primers. I used to keep a few alcohol swabs to clean my fingers before I had a reloading tube for primers. Oils from sweat can kill a primer fast. So will case lube or any ordinary oils. Reloading does require your full attention. It's best not to have the TV running or talk-radio playing to distract you. Don't reload when you're tired and obviously never when you've had a few drinks. For novices, I recommend buying a 8.5x11 spiral notebook or a hardbound "journal" book. Devote the first dozen pages for favorite loads for specific calibers. The rest of the book should be a log of each time you reload. Included will be what components you used (even by catalog number), charge weight, case brands, etc. If you chrono or shoot your loads, take the book along to record the accuracy & performance. Poor loads you cross out with a red line. Excellent loads you put in the front of the book (with a reference to the loading page). This really does help you in the long run. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

August 21, 2009, 02:08 PM	#15
margiesex Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2009 Location: Levittown, PA Posts: 210	The apostle Paul once said.... "For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself." It can happen to anyone...it behoves us all to police our own selves - and the hobby will take care of itself as it's member's do. God bless and good (safe) shooting! Margiesex And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both, and soon!

August 20, 2009, 07:23 PM	#2
mongoose33 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 228	A good wakeup call.

August 20, 2009, 08:17 PM	#3
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	Some good advice for the new reloaders on the block. In addition even us experience reloaders can take the time to understand your message. Reloading takes knowledge, understanding and your undivided attention. even the smallest misstep in nay of there could have great consequences. Don't be in a hurry to reload take time to read and understand how it all works. If you can learn from a seasoned reloader. If you don't understand something then stop and find the answer. Don't be in a hurry to work up the most powerful loads. Some say reloading isn't rocket science but to me it is the closet I can get to sending a projectile to the moon. A beginner should always find their first load data in a book and follow it to the letter. Skimping on good loading books to save a few dollars is the worst decision a reloader can make. Not understanding the relationship between cases, primers, powder along with case sizes and Over all length can get you in trouble. Trying to watch TV while you reloading can kill you. I can't possible cover every thing for safe reloading in a thread on a forum, however there is a lot of good information on the internet and in books. here is an example of one site that tries to help the beginner understand the process. http://hunting.about.com/od/reloadin...eloadindex.htm It is a great hobby with a good safe track record help keep yourself safe.

August 20, 2009, 08:24 PM	#4
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	im curious what went kaboom. it takes me a few seconds more each round, but after I charge it, I check the inside of the case before I put the bullet on top for 2 reasons. 1- to see if there is powder in it 2- to make sure its not too much/too little. little slow, but i got time

August 20, 2009, 08:46 PM	#5
spleify Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 151	Very good lesson to have learned. I'm glad to hear everything turned out good. Thanks for the heads up.

August 20, 2009, 09:03 PM	#6
Zilmo Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2009 Location: At home. Posts: 369	I'ts why I don't reload.

August 20, 2009, 09:08 PM	#7
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 334	Thats why when i reload,i only make a batch of 20, and powder them one at a time. Inspect the case, then place the bullet.Great post Pax.

August 20, 2009, 09:19 PM	#8
QBall45 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2008 Location: South Central Minnesota Posts: 584	Thanks for sharing this story. It could have been so much worse had the neighbor student not been paying attention.

August 20, 2009, 10:48 PM	#11
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	gdeal if you don't ask questions your gonna blow up lol

August 21, 2009, 12:18 PM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You're welcome gdeal - but thanks to the poster, for posting this reminder too. Its a reminder to all of us - to check - and double check - everything we do when we're reloading. Only my 2 cents guys - and rigging something on a press, like a mirror, to help you look into a case that has powder in it is not a bad idea so you can still operate a progressive press and stay seated / but with some powders, its still hard to judge if its off 25% ( and that could be a full 1.0 grain ) ... I still come back to the "use a powder check die" on your presses - if they have a station for it / and if you're buying a new press - consider a press that will allow it - and adjust it properly and use it ! But a mirror / or looking into a case - will probably prevent the "no charge" which is what likely caused the issue the poster cited.

August 21, 2009, 12:25 PM	#13
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Stories like that are why I cringe every time I see another post from someone who is brand new to this and wants the lowdown on which unit can crank out a bazillion rounds an hour. I picture someone who is used to playing video games with unlimited spray and pray firepower and wants to duplicate in real life. You have to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run. Since I use a single stage press, I load 50 at a time, because that is what fits in my loading block. I can look into each and every case whether rifle or pistol and ensure the amount is correct. Almost 30 years with no issues. Sometimes slow is the way to go.........

August 21, 2009, 12:52 PM	#14
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	Thanks gd, it is just part of the learning process, when I learned there wasn't the internet and I didn't have help. I think it was at least two months before I loaded the first round on my press. If I have helped I am happy, if you become a better reloader than I then it has been a success.