Legal Mods on Ruger Charger and 10/22 and barrel lengths and stocks...

AZAK · October 4, 2011, 03:40 AM

I am still unsure of exactly what one can do legally with modifying Ruger Chargers and 10/22s when it comes to barrels (different lengths), stocks (full length and pistol grips) and the likes. I do realize that there are forms and stamps involved for some (SBR, etc...)

Basically they are the same animal; parts interchangeability and all.

Really what is the difference between taking a stock 10/22 receiver, replacing the barrel with a 10" one and placing it into a pistol stock, versus buying a Charger?

What about taking a Charger and re-barreling with a stock 10/22 barrel and putting it into a 10/22 rifle stock?

I do understand about the SBR, for example taking a Charger and changing out the pistol stock for a rifle stock, but am I missing something else here?

I realize that one is sold as a pistol, while the other is sold as a rifle; however, you can make either one either one with stock Ruger parts (unless I am really confused.)

Did Ruger basically play a semantics game and squeak by? Or am I perhaps over thinking this?
(And I do have both; Charger and 10/22.)

kozak6 · October 4, 2011, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Really what is the difference between taking a stock 10/22 receiver, replacing the barrel with a 10" one and placing it into a pistol stock, versus buying a Charger?

Mechanically, the difference is the lettering on the receiver.

Legally, you would be assembling a "short barreled rifle", which requires federal registration and a $200 tax stamp if doing so is lawful in your state.

Quote:

What about taking a Charger and re-barreling with a stock 10/22 barrel and putting it into a 10/22 rifle stock?

Mechanically, the difference is the lettering on the receiver.

Legally, this is perfectly fine, although for a long time it was arguable if you were able to lawfully switch back.

Quote:

Did Ruger basically play a semantics game and squeak by? Or am I perhaps over thinking this?

It's not really a semantics game. The 1934 NFA is a poorly written law. Many manufacturers produce "pistol" versions of their rifles.

Quote:

Or am I perhaps over thinking this?

Not at all.

If you are implying that this doesn't make any sense at all, you would be entirely correct. In general, weapons laws (including firearm laws) tend to be poorly written for a variety of political reasons that may fall outside of the scope of this thread.

Pahoo · October 4, 2011, 10:26 AM

AZAK/kozak6
I too have been wrestling over the options and have come up with another option;

Quote:

Taking the Charger action with barrel and placing it into a standard Carbine stock, minus the barrel band. That way you could just switch back and forth???

The charger barrel is basically a 10" version of the standard 10/22 carbine rifle. There is a warning on the bottom of the barrel but it doesn't refer to not being able to intall the entire reciever and barrel, into a rifle stock. By the way, it fits very nicely.. ...

I tried to contact the ATF with this question and got lost in the usual phone maze ...

Be Safe !!!

Don H · October 4, 2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahoo

I tried to contact the ATF with this question and got lost in the usual phone maze ...

I believe the Technology Branch will only make a determination in response to a written request. Their address is:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia25405USA

Jim March · October 4, 2011, 01:48 PM

Ok, assuming you're trying to avoid NFA rules...

You can't take a rifle and chop it down to handguns specs (barrel under 16" OR overall length under 26", or both). You CAN upgrade a handgun to rifle specs as long as you go "all the way" - 16" or more barrel and 26" overall. And per a recent revised ruling, if you bought the gun as a handgun and took it to rifle specs, you can then go backwards.

Things you have to avoid:

* Barrel under 16" AND a shoulder stock (illegal combination).

* Handgun specs and a forward vertical grip under the barrel. Such a grip is only legal on rifles.

Things that are weird but legal:

* Run a barrel of 16" or more without a shoulder stock, it's still legal just very weird. Once you hit 26" overall length, you can do a forward vertical grip even without a shoulder stock.

* Weirdest of all: 26" overall, no shoulder stock, barrel UNDER 16", forward vertical grip legal. We call this "Franklin Armory" territory:

http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS.html

Note the ATF letter, and the specs on this beast...this is one of the weirdest, "edgiest" skirts around the NFA rules ever

.

* Barrel of 16", overall length UNDER 26", no shoulder stock. At that point it's still legally a handgun with a funky long barrel

. No vertical forward grip allowed.

That last is important during a Charger's transition to rifle. You take the handgun grip off, and you have the reciever and barrel in hand. You take the handgun barrel off and put a rifle barrel on. At that point you're still legal - you don't yet have a rifle, you have a weird handgun. Now add the rifle stock, and you have a legal rifle. You don't have to "momentarily break the law" during the transition, which is a big reason BATF was forced to agree that all this was legal.

If you took the handgun grip off while the handgun barrel was still in the reciever and put the rifle stock on the handgun-length barrel, you've just created an illegal combination.

Pahoo · October 4, 2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Ok, assuming you're trying to avoid NFA rules...

Not at all, just trying to avoid being bit, on the backside and make it more versatile. Not trying to turn a rifle into a pistol, but a putting a longer stock on a pistol. .....

At any rate, you answered my question and I thank you ....

Be Safe !!!

Jim March · October 4, 2011, 07:52 PM

Well what I meant by that opening sentence is, you CAN go the whole NFA paperwork route if you want, in most US states. In other words, don't totally discount owning an NFA-controlled item. The paperwork and costs aren't totally out of control unless you're talking about full-auto.

Full-auto is also controlled under the NFA, with an addition: you can't make a new full-auto rifle and have it be civilian-transferrable. The supply was locked in 1986 by Federal law. But you CAN make other new NFA guns - short-barreled rifles or shotguns, etc.

October 4, 2011, 03:40 AM	#1
AZAK Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: the object towards which the action of the sea is directed Posts: 2,123	Legal Mods on Ruger Charger and 10/22 and barrel lengths and stocks... I am still unsure of exactly what one can do legally with modifying Ruger Chargers and 10/22s when it comes to barrels (different lengths), stocks (full length and pistol grips) and the likes. I do realize that there are forms and stamps involved for some (SBR, etc...) Basically they are the same animal; parts interchangeability and all. Really what is the difference between taking a stock 10/22 receiver, replacing the barrel with a 10" one and placing it into a pistol stock, versus buying a Charger? What about taking a Charger and re-barreling with a stock 10/22 barrel and putting it into a 10/22 rifle stock? I do understand about the SBR, for example taking a Charger and changing out the pistol stock for a rifle stock, but am I missing something else here? I realize that one is sold as a pistol, while the other is sold as a rifle; however, you can make either one either one with stock Ruger parts (unless I am really confused.) Did Ruger basically play a semantics game and squeak by? Or am I perhaps over thinking this? (And I do have both; Charger and 10/22.) __________________ The lowest paid college major/degree in this country after graduation... Elementary Education. Now, go figure...

October 4, 2011, 01:48 PM	#5
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Ok, assuming you're trying to avoid NFA rules... You can't take a rifle and chop it down to handguns specs (barrel under 16" OR overall length under 26", or both). You CAN upgrade a handgun to rifle specs as long as you go "all the way" - 16" or more barrel and 26" overall. And per a recent revised ruling, if you bought the gun as a handgun and took it to rifle specs, you can then go backwards. Things you have to avoid: * Barrel under 16" AND a shoulder stock (illegal combination). * Handgun specs and a forward vertical grip under the barrel. Such a grip is only legal on rifles. Things that are weird but legal: * Run a barrel of 16" or more without a shoulder stock, it's still legal just very weird. Once you hit 26" overall length, you can do a forward vertical grip even without a shoulder stock. * Weirdest of all: 26" overall, no shoulder stock, barrel UNDER 16", forward vertical grip legal. We call this "Franklin Armory" territory: http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS.html Note the ATF letter, and the specs on this beast...this is one of the weirdest, "edgiest" skirts around the NFA rules ever . * Barrel of 16", overall length UNDER 26", no shoulder stock. At that point it's still legally a handgun with a funky long barrel . No vertical forward grip allowed. That last is important during a Charger's transition to rifle. You take the handgun grip off, and you have the reciever and barrel in hand. You take the handgun barrel off and put a rifle barrel on. At that point you're still legal - you don't yet have a rifle, you have a weird handgun. Now add the rifle stock, and you have a legal rifle. You don't have to "momentarily break the law" during the transition, which is a big reason BATF was forced to agree that all this was legal. If you took the handgun grip off while the handgun barrel was still in the reciever and put the rifle stock on the handgun-length barrel, you've just created an illegal combination. __________________ Jim March

October 4, 2011, 07:52 PM	#7
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Well what I meant by that opening sentence is, you CAN go the whole NFA paperwork route if you want, in most US states. In other words, don't totally discount owning an NFA-controlled item. The paperwork and costs aren't totally out of control unless you're talking about full-auto. Full-auto is also controlled under the NFA, with an addition: you can't make a new full-auto rifle and have it be civilian-transferrable. The supply was locked in 1986 by Federal law. But you CAN make other new NFA guns - short-barreled rifles or shotguns, etc. __________________ Jim March