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Old February 19, 2018, 12:32 PM   #26
5pins
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You choose your ammo based on poling individual law enforcement officers on what they are issued. Ammo issued by their department, based on testing conducted by their department or the FBI, and then declare,

"The "gel-tests" will go down as the dumbest tests to determine the effectiveness of a pistol bullet to stop a human target from it's intended desire. "

But you pick ammo from the advice of people who have no idea why they carry the ammo they carry.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...3pWYVVJeGlGaFE

Please read 1991-Vol1No1 page 10 of the IWBA Ballistics Review.
"Performance of the Winchester 9mm 147 Grain
Subsonic Jacketed Hollow Point Bullet in Human
Tissue and Tissue Simulant"

Also, read 1998-Vol3No3 page 12
"IMPROVED HANDGUN
AMMUNITION"
This will give insight on four layers of denim test.
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Old February 19, 2018, 04:22 PM   #27
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[QUOTEYou choose your ammo based on poling individual law enforcement officers on what they are issued. Ammo issued by their department, based on testing conducted by their department or the FBI, and then declare,

"The "gel-tests" will go down as the dumbest tests to determine the effectiveness of a pistol bullet to stop a human target from it's intended desire. "

But you pick ammo from the advice of people who have no idea why they carry the ammo they carry.][/QUOTE]

LOL! Yup, don't do any research on bullet performance, adequate penetration, over penetration, bullet failure. Don't do your own checking to see if the ammo you choose actually works in your gun, or is accurate. Just get what the politicians have bought the local LE because it was the cheapest they could find!
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Old February 20, 2018, 03:20 PM   #28
Northof50
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5pins - Cheapshooter- It's comical to watch you guys do google searches and draw conclusions never stated to justify being jello believers.

Fact - there is NO substrate that can approximate, air, bone, liquid and tissue simultaneously.

Fact - there is NO place on the human body that is monolithic or homogenous for 14-20" unless you're obese

Fact - nobody wears 4 layers of denim - further evidence of how outdated the test really is

Fact - because of the above, jello testing will not give any clue as to how a bullet will perform hitting a human body, how it expands, how much it penetrates.

Yes, it will go down as being as worthless as shooting into water and wet newsprints.

Maybe next time you can make the jello in cherry flavor?
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Old February 20, 2018, 03:38 PM   #29
dpadams6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northof50 View Post
5pins - Cheapshooter- It's comical to watch you guys do google searches and draw conclusions never stated to justify being jello believers.

Fact - there is NO substrate that can approximate, air, bone, liquid and tissue simultaneously.

Fact - there is NO place on the human body that is monolithic or homogenous for 14-20" unless you're obese

Fact - nobody wears 4 layers of denim - further evidence of how outdated the test really is

Fact - because of the above, jello testing will not give any clue as to how a bullet will perform hitting a human body, how it expands, how much it penetrates.

Yes, it will go down as being as worthless as shooting into water and wet newsprints.

Maybe next time you can make the jello in cherry flavor?
Do you know of anything that would be better?
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Old February 20, 2018, 04:14 PM   #30
5pins
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Originally Posted by dpadams6 View Post
Do you know of anything that would be better?
No, he doesn't. He has no "facts" with any support just snarky remarks.

It's like I said earlier.

Quote:
People who make this kind of statements typically don't understand or don't want to understand.
I think he proves my point.

I don't mind respectful discussion and disagreement but if someone is going to make statements of fact then it should be backed up with facts, not flippant opinions.

I'm stepping out of this discussion.
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Old February 20, 2018, 06:26 PM   #31
Cheapshooter
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Some people just can not comprehend what they read, or just want to appear like a stubborn fool.
NOBODY claimed ballistic gel was in ANY WAY the same as a human body. Neither is chunks of a dead pig.
What ballistic gel IS is a consistent, reliable test media used by testing laboratories world wide.
But hey, what's a problematic little thing like FACT have to do with an antiquitous opinion?
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Old February 21, 2018, 05:20 PM   #32
In The Ten Ring
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Wasn't the .45 ACP developed by shooting cows and cadavers?

Back in the early 2000's, I spent about 2 hours at a gun range going through every 9mm Parabellum they had until I found a brand that grouped well and hit to point of aim. I found that with PMC El Dorado. That is what I carried in that weapon and I carried it for years. Fast forward to 2012 and youtube. I found tn9outdoors videos on gel tests and that round didn't expand at all. I stopped carrying it immediately.
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Old February 21, 2018, 06:29 PM   #33
t4terrific
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapshooter View Post
...In your mom nd I'm sure some insunificant amateurs complaint d with owning a bar!


What are you talking about?
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Old February 21, 2018, 06:32 PM   #34
t4terrific
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Originally Posted by dpadams6 View Post
Do you know of anything that would be better?


There you have it.

It’s easy to find problems. Solutions take work and thought.

Solutions are what separate men from boys.
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