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Old January 6, 2018, 11:06 PM   #26
cw308
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I have been point shooting for awhile ,with and without the laser . I happen to like shooting with it on . To each his own , as long as you hit what your aiming at is all that matters.
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Old January 7, 2018, 01:32 AM   #27
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof Young
...Amazingly I'm not any better a shot with it than I am with regular sites....
No, it's not amazing at all. A laser won't replace basic marksmanship skills, notably trigger control.

A laser is just another way of indexing the gun on target. Whether you index on target using sights, a laser, point shooting skills, or in any other way you might be able to think of, if you manage the trigger properly you will get your hit. And if you jerk the trigger you will not. There are no substitutes for basic shooting skills.
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Old January 7, 2018, 04:22 AM   #28
Elkins45
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I don't get all of the laser hate. A laser is just a tool, and like all tools there are times when it is more useful than others. Telling people to take the batteries out is a little like telling a mechanic to leave their 9/16 socket at home today because they probably won't need it.

Both of my carry guns (pocket and IWB) have lasers. I don't rely on them; in fact I can't even see them when shooting during daylight hours. But if I'm ever lying on the blacktop in a dark parking lot peeking under a car I can see where it might have some value.

All it costs is a few dollars and the upside might be huge someday.
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Old January 7, 2018, 08:24 AM   #29
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I must be another oddball here because I love my lasers. Don't have much problem finding it on a target or distracted by it moving. perhaps because I've spent years practicing a lot of point shooting using no sights at all, (as do all us Seecamp users). I shoot timed targets faster with the laser than without and value the ability to be able to accomplish an aimed shot from unconventional positions such as from the hip.

My advice is to practice three ways; quick point aimed "snap shots" without sights, quick shots with sights, then quick shots with the laser. Maybe alternate methods with each mag change.

I too own a Pico with the laser. I practice about half the time with the laser and half without. It isn't what I'd call a natural pointer, so practicing point shooting, to gain that muscle memory, may help you gain proficiency in putting the dot on target easily and quickly.
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Old January 7, 2018, 10:01 AM   #30
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Thank You , I was giving my opinion on lasers an felt I was in a dueling contest .
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Old January 7, 2018, 03:39 PM   #31
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Yes, there can be a very limited number of SD scenarios that a laser could be an advantage. The biggest problem is with all the advertising hype, and Hollywood depections, there are new shooters who think that a laser is a replacement for what they are being influenced to believe are the "out dated" open sights on a handgun. After all, doesn't everyone know that just seeing a dancing dot on his chest any attacker will instantly surrender?
Use the laser as a traininv aid to help with trigger control as mentioned in several posts. Use it for dry fire point and shoot practice. Keep it on the gun just in case, but never regard it as a replacement for the sights, and practoce.
Heck, I've been seriously thinking about adding a CT Laserguard to my Remington R51 just because it's design looks like it should have one on it.
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Old January 7, 2018, 08:02 PM   #32
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Should have made that "amazingly" . . .

Frank E. I should have put the word amazingly in quotes. I was being self sarcastic. I didn't really think having a laser would solve my pistol shooting problems. :-) (And that is why the smiley face is after that sentence in the original post.)

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Old January 7, 2018, 08:58 PM   #33
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My first laser gun was a BG-38 revolver. Laser had a switch on the top of the gun. Turns out the gun was not holding up, so I traded it for a S&W 637, lightweight J frame. I immediately bought a set of CT laser grips. I like them.

I have been carrying that 38 for a few years. Next I bought a set for my lightweight officers 45. Love them too. This year I just bought a Sig P238 with night sights. No CT laser grips available for this model.

These night sights don't even compare to the laser sighting system. It has to be so dark to see the light up dots, that I would not be able to see my target.

I have been shooting handguns since 1987. Sights are first, but the laser is sure handy in low light.

To each his own.

David

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Old January 8, 2018, 12:32 PM   #34
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One of the disadvantages of a laser is that it will magnify tiny movements and tremors in your hand. As a result the laser dot will be bouncing all over the place, and I find lasers to be detrimental to accurate shooting off hand.

On the other hand, for rapid point shooting they can potentially shine....provided the laser is sighted in appropriately relative to your iron sights (see above); you are practiced at engaging the laser without having to think about it, you are practiced at finding the dot quickly, and you have good trigger control....so basically, if your shooting fundamentals are solid, which you would build first using iron sights.
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Old January 8, 2018, 01:13 PM   #35
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof Young
Frank E. I should have put the word amazingly in quotes. I was being self sarcastic.....
Fair enough. Sorry I misunderstood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sakata8242
....One of the disadvantages of a laser is that it will magnify tiny movements and tremors in your hand. As a result the laser dot will be bouncing all over the place,....
All over the place?

I question this. If the laser is jumping all over the place the sights would be as well. No one can hold a gun perfectly steady. There will always be movement. But the movement should, if one is doing things right, be confined within a relatively small space.

I usually giver the basic shooting skills lecture at out monthly Basic Handgun classes. I use an airsoft 1911 with a laser to illustrate the difference between jerking the trigger and a clean surprise break. And it also helps illustrate that the gun is not absolutely steady with the laser dot staying within something like a quarter inch, or a bit less, at about 5 yards.
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Old January 9, 2018, 08:41 AM   #36
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If I had to choose between tritium night sights and a touch-activated laser I would choose the night sights under every circumstance I can imagine.

But I don’t have to choose. I love America!
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Old January 9, 2018, 09:45 AM   #37
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Dark alleyway bad guy all in dark clothing , night sights would be the only thing you see . It only matters what your more comfortable with . Same as some clean after shooting , some don't clean until the firearm starts to act up . I like vanilla you like chocolate , no one's wrong , what's the big deal .
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Old January 9, 2018, 11:27 AM   #38
Elkins45
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No big deal. I choose both because I can.

I’m not out much after dark these days if I can help it. Tritium sights are very helpful for finding and orienting your pistol on the nightstand when waking up. Chances are if I ever have to use my gun it will be in the confines of my house.
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Old January 9, 2018, 11:38 AM   #39
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I found another application for a laser attached to a handgun: its use as a training aid. That "bouncing dot" is a heck of a good indicator of what the shooter is doing with the trigger, and his or her maintenance of a good, uniform shot to shot, grip.

Most all of us, with some experience, have noted the effects of pushing the trigger finger too far through the trigger guard and the disastrous effect this has on grouping. The laser will show you just how much of a difference it makes while dry firing or in live practice. It helps you 'tune' your grip and trigger finger placement. It showed me some things I've been doing with various hand guns for over 50 years. And for a new shooter, it reduces hours of explanation by the coach to a self evident display.

A good laser is no substitute for the fundamentals: Uniform grip shot to shot, Sight alignment, Sight picture, unwavering focus on the front sight and follow through. Used as a training aid, it makes teaching (and learning) those fundamentals easier.

YMMV, Rod
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Old January 9, 2018, 11:46 AM   #40
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Quote:
night sights don't even compare to the laser sighting system. It has to be so dark to see the light up dots, that I would not be able to see my target
Not with any night sights (the tritium variety) that I've used...(Sig and Glock). Nor has that been my experience with three dot sights...again Glock and Sig.

I passed the quote above, along to a cpl of local Louisville Metro LEO's, and their opinion mirrors my own. The tritium sights allow use over a longer ranges, and in darker environments, but even plain white dots do well in the dark of most city/town nights.

Rod
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Old January 10, 2018, 02:13 PM   #41
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Laser shows me my faults . . .

Was shooting the Pico with the laser at the range this morning. Watching the laser really showed me how much I pull the aim down when I shoot, which is easy to do with the Pico as the grip is so small. I have Talon "grips" installed and was using the extended mag with the finger rests and still had a huge drop as I pulled the trigger. It really is all about learning to pull that trigger straight back.

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Old January 10, 2018, 05:18 PM   #42
cw308
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Learn to use a laser is the post , not who likes or dislikes lasers . The laser is not making him a better shooter as he listed . The laser will clearly show him what he has to work on . Trigger control , proper hold an eye hand coordination . Most of the time it's time at the range & getting comfortable with your firearm . Shoot twice a week for two months then take off two weeks an see how you shoot the first magazine or two . If you want to improve , takes alot of practice . Lasers or open sights they are both the same no easy way .
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Old January 19, 2018, 05:37 PM   #43
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Maybe ok for training, but for self defense, no. Too much of a distraction. Not a fan.
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Old January 28, 2018, 01:41 PM   #44
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Lazers take alittle getting used to. At first I was too focused on the fact that the lazer was moving so much on my target. Made me insecure and indecisive as when to pull the trigger. Just practicing by going ahead and firing the gun made me calm down and eventually I got more precise as to wear the rounds were hitting. By the way green is sooooo much better than red in the daylight. Now I really like to use the lazer even more than the sights. Also very helpful with my aging eyes.
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Old January 29, 2018, 01:40 PM   #45
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I have two small Beretta's, a Tomcat & a Bobcat, that I couldn't shoot worth a darn using the crappy site groove and little bump of a front sight. With a lasers on them I can actually shoot a decent group now. So I definitely see an advantage on small mouse guns not so much on larger platforms that point well.
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Old January 29, 2018, 07:53 PM   #46
cw308
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On a S D hand gun 21 feet is the maximum distance , at that range the dot is easy to see an control . Installing them on a Colt Gold Cup there designed for target sights . Lasers on that gun may be a crime. My Colt 3" is another story , I like to shoot with the dot on. If the dot is moving all around , it's not the dot that moves it's the gun , with or without a laser.
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Old January 30, 2018, 10:53 AM   #47
In The Ten Ring
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I finally bit the bullet and have begun pulling laser grips on all my carry pistols.

Sight it in, test it, practice.
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Old January 30, 2018, 01:14 PM   #48
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In my experience, it is all about practice. I don't think they should be a replacement for basic marksmanship skills. The mistake I tend see with people who use lasers, and my own mistake when I use them, is watching the laser shake and bounce around. You learn very quickly that despite what games and movies tell us, lasers do not make guns inherently more accurate.

I see lasers as a useful tool when normal shooting positions are not available. To a lesser degree I could see them being a deterrent, scaring bad guys...
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Old January 30, 2018, 04:59 PM   #49
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To a lesser degree I could see them being a deterrent, scaring bad guys...
Another Urban Legend about lasers. If you think you are going to scare an attacker away by putting a little red dot on him you are going to lose! If an altercation has gotten to the point of drawing a gun it's time to pull the trigger, not point little magic dots on things.
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Old January 30, 2018, 11:36 PM   #50
Prof Young
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More on learning to use laser . . .

I've posted before about learning to shoot with a laser on my Beretta Pico. Get this. Last two trips to the range I shot better with the laser than with the sights. Seriously better. What the heck it going on here?

Life is good.
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