86gr honady (.308 diameter) rounds in .308 win

Minimalist hunter · December 14, 2017, 07:45 AM

I have a box of .308 diameter 86gr Hornady bullets to load for my .308 rifle. I know these are intended as a pistol round but i want them to shoot rabbits when Im out hunting bigger game.
I would like to start as low as possible and build them up to get them zerod for 25-45yards for my normal 155gr hunting load. (Bonus if they are subsonic) I know they may not have the same point of impact but hopefully the 25 yard zero can be close enough.

Any idea where I should start in terms of powder and primers? Is there something I can put in the case between the bullet and powder and I assume this would be a small powder charge and the void could create excess pressure or inconsistencies? Is it possible to use 4895 so I dont have to get a different type of powder or is there a powder that can work with both the 86gr up to 155gr?
I’m in Australia so carrying a pistol while hunting isnt an option and Im sick of carrying multiple long guns. I looked at a combination gun but they seem expensive for what they are and didnt suit for other reasons.
Thanks in advance

ATCDoktor · December 14, 2017, 11:47 AM

To do what you want with those 86 grain bullets your going to have to switch to a faster powder than Hodgdon/IMR4895.

What is normally done when building loads of this type is to use a fast burning pistol powder with your lightweight bullets.

Slow burning powders Like Hodgdon/IMR 4895 will give you erratic velocity/hangfires etc when you reduce the charges to support the velocities you want.

I have used Trailboss powder to build Subsonic loads for 308/3006 using standard weight bullets (150-220 grains) but it could also be used to support what you want to do with your 86 grain bullets.

Trailboss is a bulky powder that isn't position sensitive and requires no "filler" to keep the powder against the primer.

Rifletom · December 14, 2017, 12:25 PM

Hmm. That's an interesting proposition you have with that 86gr bullet. I believe ATC is on to something with "Trailboss" in mind. Let us know what you finally come up with.

T. O'Heir · December 14, 2017, 02:26 PM

There are 73 grain loads using Vihtavuori powders on stevespages.com that might do. 100 grain loads might be better though.
http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm
Probably better to contact Hornady though. Or use a 100 grain bullet.

Minimalist hunter · December 14, 2017, 10:55 PM

Thanks guys, I thought i may have to go with trailboss so its good it has been confirmed here as well (if there was no universal powder to suit)

Thanks for the links. I’ll try to build up some loads and report back in the new year.

I did consider the 100gr or 110gr FMJ rounds but hopefully I can make these 86gr rounds work well enough. 86gr in a .308 win case looks very small indeed. They are a pretty cheap projectile too.

Minimalist hunter · December 30, 2017, 12:14 AM

Well I did it, played around with trailboss jumping up in 1gr increments from 11.6gr to 16.6gr. All produced decent enough groups at 30m with the most ideal being 13.6gr hitting about 1/2” low on my scope which is zerod for 155.5gr hpbts at 50/200m. Spread was about 1/2” center to center

I was shooting off an esky (ice cooler?) sitting on the ground but the results are still minute-of-rabbit. I didnt get to fire many shots but its a good starting point and close enough that I can hold over rabbit. When I get more time i will work out the drop over longer distances.

Cavitation · December 30, 2017, 07:05 AM

I did the same thing years ago with the 35 Remington. I used 357 pistol bullets in it with reduced loads. It shot into a coffee can at 50 yards and cycled extremely well. fun as hell to shoot. cheap bulk lead 158 grn pistol bullets.

AL

Mobuck · December 30, 2017, 08:29 AM

I tried this 40(ish) years ago using Speer 110 "varminter" (low velocity) bullets in a 30/06. The spray pattern from the bullet disintegration would have likely been great for rabbits.

Minimalist hunter · December 30, 2017, 10:36 PM

Shotgun and rifle in one hey?

Did they disintegrate by using full loads of powder behind them?

Mobuck · December 31, 2017, 02:15 PM

"Did they disintegrate by using full loads of powder behind them?"

Sort of. Back then I was far less knowledgeable and more foolhardy. I used starting loads of IMR 4895 but even that was way too fast. At 30/30 velocities, that bullet did quite well on coyotes.

**Unclenick** · December 31, 2017, 02:47 PM

The 11.6 grains of TB looks to be below the maker's minimum. I have an 85 grain Sierra seated 0.25" deep in QuickLOAD, and that gives less than 60% case fill. The IMR instructions (from before Trail Boss was rebranded to Hodgdon) say that, for any bullet weight, not to go below 70% powder space fill in a rifle case, and not to exceed 100% (Trail Boss should not be compressed, as that breaks up the grains, increasing their burn rate). I don't know whose cases you are using, but with a 150 grain Nosler BT at 3.25" COL, for which Hodgdon has data, seated to the same depth as above, they give 13.3 grains to start and 19 grains maximum in the .30-06. That bullet seats deeper than your 85 grain will, so I would expect 13.5 to 19.5 is probably your target range. Personally, I think 70% is a little overcautious and that 60% is probably fine, but that's just an educated guess, and I wanted to make you aware of their recommendations for the powder used in rifles firing jacketed bullets.

Minimalist hunter · December 31, 2017, 08:09 PM

Thanks for the info Uncle Nick, with load developments and me being new to this it is definately worthwhile double checking. The good news is that before I started I emailed ADI and from there I measured the max fill of my cases to the base of the seated bullet and got 16.6gr. I then used 11.6 (11.62) as the 70% mark and worked up from there. As overpressure was never going to be an issue with trailboss I jumped up in 1gr increments.

This is for a .308 and not the larger case volume of the 30-06

December 14, 2017, 07:45 AM	#1
Minimalist hunter Junior Member Join Date: November 29, 2017 Posts: 8	86gr honady (.308 diameter) rounds in .308 win I have a box of .308 diameter 86gr Hornady bullets to load for my .308 rifle. I know these are intended as a pistol round but i want them to shoot rabbits when Im out hunting bigger game. I would like to start as low as possible and build them up to get them zerod for 25-45yards for my normal 155gr hunting load. (Bonus if they are subsonic) I know they may not have the same point of impact but hopefully the 25 yard zero can be close enough. Any idea where I should start in terms of powder and primers? Is there something I can put in the case between the bullet and powder and I assume this would be a small powder charge and the void could create excess pressure or inconsistencies? Is it possible to use 4895 so I dont have to get a different type of powder or is there a powder that can work with both the 86gr up to 155gr? I’m in Australia so carrying a pistol while hunting isnt an option and Im sick of carrying multiple long guns. I looked at a combination gun but they seem expensive for what they are and didnt suit for other reasons. Thanks in advance

December 14, 2017, 02:26 PM	#4
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	There are 73 grain loads using Vihtavuori powders on stevespages.com that might do. 100 grain loads might be better though. http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm Probably better to contact Hornady though. Or use a 100 grain bullet. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

December 31, 2017, 02:47 PM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	The 11.6 grains of TB looks to be below the maker's minimum. I have an 85 grain Sierra seated 0.25" deep in QuickLOAD, and that gives less than 60% case fill. The IMR instructions (from before Trail Boss was rebranded to Hodgdon) say that, for any bullet weight, not to go below 70% powder space fill in a rifle case, and not to exceed 100% (Trail Boss should not be compressed, as that breaks up the grains, increasing their burn rate). I don't know whose cases you are using, but with a 150 grain Nosler BT at 3.25" COL, for which Hodgdon has data, seated to the same depth as above, they give 13.3 grains to start and 19 grains maximum in the .30-06. That bullet seats deeper than your 85 grain will, so I would expect 13.5 to 19.5 is probably your target range. Personally, I think 70% is a little overcautious and that 60% is probably fine, but that's just an educated guess, and I wanted to make you aware of their recommendations for the powder used in rifles firing jacketed bullets. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 14, 2017, 11:47 AM	#2
ATCDoktor Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Posts: 172	To do what you want with those 86 grain bullets your going to have to switch to a faster powder than Hodgdon/IMR4895. What is normally done when building loads of this type is to use a fast burning pistol powder with your lightweight bullets. Slow burning powders Like Hodgdon/IMR 4895 will give you erratic velocity/hangfires etc when you reduce the charges to support the velocities you want. I have used Trailboss powder to build Subsonic loads for 308/3006 using standard weight bullets (150-220 grains) but it could also be used to support what you want to do with your 86 grain bullets. Trailboss is a bulky powder that isn't position sensitive and requires no "filler" to keep the powder against the primer.

December 14, 2017, 12:25 PM	#3
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 786	Hmm. That's an interesting proposition you have with that 86gr bullet. I believe ATC is on to something with "Trailboss" in mind. Let us know what you finally come up with.

December 14, 2017, 10:55 PM	#5
Minimalist hunter Junior Member Join Date: November 29, 2017 Posts: 8	Thanks guys, I thought i may have to go with trailboss so its good it has been confirmed here as well (if there was no universal powder to suit) Thanks for the links. I’ll try to build up some loads and report back in the new year. I did consider the 100gr or 110gr FMJ rounds but hopefully I can make these 86gr rounds work well enough. 86gr in a .308 win case looks very small indeed. They are a pretty cheap projectile too.

December 30, 2017, 12:14 AM	#6
Minimalist hunter Junior Member Join Date: November 29, 2017 Posts: 8	Well I did it, played around with trailboss jumping up in 1gr increments from 11.6gr to 16.6gr. All produced decent enough groups at 30m with the most ideal being 13.6gr hitting about 1/2” low on my scope which is zerod for 155.5gr hpbts at 50/200m. Spread was about 1/2” center to center I was shooting off an esky (ice cooler?) sitting on the ground but the results are still minute-of-rabbit. I didnt get to fire many shots but its a good starting point and close enough that I can hold over rabbit. When I get more time i will work out the drop over longer distances.

December 30, 2017, 07:05 AM	#7
Cavitation Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 50	I did the same thing years ago with the 35 Remington. I used 357 pistol bullets in it with reduced loads. It shot into a coffee can at 50 yards and cycled extremely well. fun as hell to shoot. cheap bulk lead 158 grn pistol bullets. AL

December 30, 2017, 08:29 AM	#8
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I tried this 40(ish) years ago using Speer 110 "varminter" (low velocity) bullets in a 30/06. The spray pattern from the bullet disintegration would have likely been great for rabbits.

December 30, 2017, 10:36 PM	#9
Minimalist hunter Junior Member Join Date: November 29, 2017 Posts: 8	Shotgun and rifle in one hey? Did they disintegrate by using full loads of powder behind them?

December 31, 2017, 02:15 PM	#10
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Did they disintegrate by using full loads of powder behind them?" Sort of. Back then I was far less knowledgeable and more foolhardy. I used starting loads of IMR 4895 but even that was way too fast. At 30/30 velocities, that bullet did quite well on coyotes.

December 31, 2017, 08:09 PM	#12
Minimalist hunter Junior Member Join Date: November 29, 2017 Posts: 8	Thanks for the info Uncle Nick, with load developments and me being new to this it is definately worthwhile double checking. The good news is that before I started I emailed ADI and from there I measured the max fill of my cases to the base of the seated bullet and got 16.6gr. I then used 11.6 (11.62) as the 70% mark and worked up from there. As overpressure was never going to be an issue with trailboss I jumped up in 1gr increments. This is for a .308 and not the larger case volume of the 30-06