scope issue with my Henry .45/70

RychenCop · November 7, 2017, 01:08 PM

Bought a Bushnell 3500 Elite 2-7x32 and went to sight in on Sunday. I ran out of elevation adjustment at 50 yards. I have never had this issue with a scope before. Any ideas? I'm still shooting a good 6 inches low from POA.

thanks!
Derek

ms6852 · November 7, 2017, 02:03 PM

Your scope has an internal adjustment value of 50 MOA which in general turns to 25 Moa up and 25 Moa down. At 50 yds that does not give you a lot of adjustment elevation if each click is 1/4 at 100 yds. and you still need to go up 6".

Depending on type of mounts used maybe it is possible that you place the front mount in the back and the back mount in the front. Reverse mounts and see if that makes a different. Also on your elevation mount turn the dial up all the way and slowly count each click as you turn it all the way down you should count 50 or 51 clicks most scopes will vary and some may short you a click or two. If you do not count at least 50 clicks your scope does not have the specified MOA elevation for that scope. Return it to Bushnell for a replacement.

One last note the scope is on the lower cost of the Bushnell spectrum and cannot handle the recoil of the 45-70. Insure that the cross hairs have not come loose.

NoSecondBest · November 7, 2017, 03:55 PM

I think the math is off in the above post. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you have 25moa of adjustment up and 25moa down (total of 50) and each click is 1/4" at 100 yards, you'd have to move it 100 clicks to get the scope to move 25moa at that distance. Although this isn't Bushnell's best scope, it's far from being a bad scope. It's covered under their 100% lifetime guarantee. I once had a Bushnell scope that had nothing wrong with it and got a full refund from them which included my shipping costs. I had cataracts and didn't know it, and I couldn't see the mil dots. They very nicely gave me all my money back and I bought another scope with the money that had thicker cross hairs instead of dots. It wasn't part of the refund that I had to buy another scope, they just were good on their word about their complete satisfaction guarantee. FWIW, I've never had a Bushnell scope fail for any reason and I've owned a dozen or so of them. If your scope is tracking when you move the adjustments, it's probably the mounts the scope is attached to. They either need to be reversed, or you need to use something like Burris Signature Zee rings with the inserts to change poi for up and down and left and right. I doubt your problem is the scope.

RychenCop · November 7, 2017, 05:19 PM

Thanks for the replies. I'm using weaver rings and base. I don't believe there is a front or rear to either, but i'll check that. As far as the scope, one of the features is supposed to be the ability to handle magnum loads. Which is why I chose it for this rifle. I'll count the clicks and check the rings and base and report any findings.

RychenCop · November 7, 2017, 05:36 PM

358 clicks from top out to bottom out.

NoSecondBest · November 7, 2017, 07:27 PM

Quote:

358 clicks from top out to bottom out.

That's about 45moa up and 45moa down. If you're still hitting low at 50 yards with the scope cranked up as far as it will go, you probably have a problem with the scope base. Henry offers their own base for their Big Boy rifles. There is nothing wrong with Weaver bases in general, but in this case there may be a problem with the one you're using. Are you using Weaver pn 63B (48069)? That's the correct part number for the Henry 30-30 and 45-70. There may be a different base for Henry's in other calibers that might fit but not be correct for your gun. If you are using the correct Weaver part number, I'd suggest sitting it aside and getting the Henry branded base that is correct for your gun just to eliminate the possibility of having the wrong part. Another option is to use the base and just get some Burris Signature Zee rings with the inserts to correct issues like this. Like I said, if your scope is tracking repeatably, it's probably not a scope issue. For general information, what load are you using in this gun? Factory or hand load? If hand load, what bullet and powder/powder weight? That could potentially have something to do with your POI issue.

RychenCop · November 7, 2017, 08:35 PM

yes, i have the 63B base. i have ordered a leupold base from Henry and will try that. i don't think it's the scope, but time will tell. i'm using Hornady ammo. i've had great results with that ammo and iron sights.
thanks

NoSecondBest · November 7, 2017, 08:49 PM

Let me know how it turns out.

Scorch · November 7, 2017, 11:29 PM

There is definitely something wrong. The bullet is starting out 1.5" below the line of sight and hitting the target 6" below the line of sight. Either the base is improperly mounted, the rings are not properly mounted, the scope is defective, or the front bell of the scope is touching and not allowing the scope to sit level in the mounts. Pretty simple. Check out those possibilities and you will find your issue.

ms6852 · November 8, 2017, 01:55 AM

After reading my post I can see why NoSecondBest thought the math is wrong. I was being very general. I was just quoting that the scopes states that it has 50 MOA so that is 25 Moa up and 25 down. And you are correct that it would take 100 clicks at 1/4 click to move up 25 Moa at 100. Each click at 50 yards than have a 1/8 inch value. So for him to be topping off at 50 yds tells me there is something wrong with the scope. It seems that the scope at 358 clicks is giving less than 20 total Moa elevation.

NoSecondBest · November 8, 2017, 11:45 PM

Quote:

After reading my post I can see why NoSecondBest thought the math is wrong. I was being very general. I was just quoting that the scopes states that it has 50 MOA so that is 25 Moa up and 25 down. And you are correct that it would take 100 clicks at 1/4 click to move up 25 Moa at 100. Each click at 50 yards than have a 1/8 inch value. So for him to be topping off at 50 yds tells me there is something wrong with the scope. It seems that the scope at 358 clicks is giving less than 20 total Moa elevation.

Not really. He could be using up all his adjustment simply because of some of the reasons that Scortch pointed out. If he's got the scope mounted incorrectly for some reason, he could be well past the point where the scope has enough adjustment to get the POI correct.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · November 9, 2017, 10:01 AM

Sometimes. But not always. Tweaking the cartridges powder charge may help in such high/low targeting circumstances.

the possum · November 10, 2017, 01:35 PM

Dang. That's far enough off that you should be able to look down the barrel and see that the scope tube is not parallel with your gun. Wonder if there's something wrong where they drilled the mounting holes in the receiver or something? (I'm not familiar with the Henrys.)

straightshooterjake · November 10, 2017, 02:34 PM

I wrote an article on my blog about how to sight in a scope. The article has a section about troubleshooting problems like this. The short summary is: remove the scope and rails, inspect everything carefully, then put it all back. Often this process resolves issues with things being out of alignment.

The article is here:

How to Sight in a Scope

And the section with details about remounting a scope is here:

Remounting a Scope with Extra Care

Scoits · November 11, 2017, 08:32 AM

I have on more then one occasion shimmed the mount base and gotten out of trouble.

NoSecondBest · November 11, 2017, 08:52 AM

Quote:

I have on more then one occasion shimmed the mount base and gotten out of trouble.

I had a Browning Low Wall that I had to shim. Nothing else worked. The front and rear bases just weren't on the same plane. A very thin shim fixed the problem perfectly and it was one of the most accurate guns I've ever owned. That's one option, and another could be your load needs tweaked. The 45-70 (I own several) can really shift the POI depending on the load being used. What bullet and powder/charge are you shooting?

RychenCop · November 15, 2017, 03:26 PM

Well I changed the mount and rings to Leupold and just came from the range. Same results. The scope just runs out of elevation. Going to contact Bushnell shortly and arrange a return.

ireload2 · December 10, 2017, 12:28 PM

If you have a 45-70 sighted in at 100 yards you will be shocked to look through the bore. With the sights on the target the bore will point about 3 feet higher. If you mount a scope use the Burris rings with the eccentric inserts to take care of the gross adjustment.

There is nothing wrong with the scope. You are not familiar with scoping low velocity rifles.

langenc · December 11, 2017, 04:57 PM

Call Henry and talk w/ their cust service dept.

3Crows · December 25, 2017, 07:23 PM

I have and shoot a Marlin 45-70 with a variety of loads, including home loads, and I typically use a laser bore sighter to get on paper with a new rifle and the same with this one. No way my Marlin (new manufacture) has to be aimed three feet above the target to be on at 100 yards. The Hornady stuff is 3 inches high for a 200 yard zero. Anyways, most likely the Henry might have barrel droop or at least the barrel is not in alignment with the receiver. There is nothing unusual about a 45-70 that should require shims or find a scope wanting for more elevation at only 100 yards.

Anyways, hope it gets on target without out to much more fuss.

3T

BBarn · December 26, 2017, 06:31 AM

If possible I would give another scope a quick try. That may point to what is wrong. You seem to have already eliminated the base and rings as the problem.

November 7, 2017, 01:08 PM	#1
RychenCop Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: North Augusta,SC Posts: 11	scope issue with my Henry .45/70 Bought a Bushnell 3500 Elite 2-7x32 and went to sight in on Sunday. I ran out of elevation adjustment at 50 yards. I have never had this issue with a scope before. Any ideas? I'm still shooting a good 6 inches low from POA. thanks! Derek Last edited by RychenCop; November 7, 2017 at 01:17 PM.

November 7, 2017, 02:03 PM	#2
ms6852 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 1,394	Your scope has an internal adjustment value of 50 MOA which in general turns to 25 Moa up and 25 Moa down. At 50 yds that does not give you a lot of adjustment elevation if each click is 1/4 at 100 yds. and you still need to go up 6". Depending on type of mounts used maybe it is possible that you place the front mount in the back and the back mount in the front. Reverse mounts and see if that makes a different. Also on your elevation mount turn the dial up all the way and slowly count each click as you turn it all the way down you should count 50 or 51 clicks most scopes will vary and some may short you a click or two. If you do not count at least 50 clicks your scope does not have the specified MOA elevation for that scope. Return it to Bushnell for a replacement. One last note the scope is on the lower cost of the Bushnell spectrum and cannot handle the recoil of the 45-70. Insure that the cross hairs have not come loose. __________________ ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. ONE IS JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR SOUL AND THE OTHER IS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOUR FREEDOM.

November 7, 2017, 11:29 PM	#9
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	There is definitely something wrong. The bullet is starting out 1.5" below the line of sight and hitting the target 6" below the line of sight. Either the base is improperly mounted, the rings are not properly mounted, the scope is defective, or the front bell of the scope is touching and not allowing the scope to sit level in the mounts. Pretty simple. Check out those possibilities and you will find your issue. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

November 8, 2017, 01:55 AM	#10
ms6852 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 1,394	After reading my post I can see why NoSecondBest thought the math is wrong. I was being very general. I was just quoting that the scopes states that it has 50 MOA so that is 25 Moa up and 25 down. And you are correct that it would take 100 clicks at 1/4 click to move up 25 Moa at 100. Each click at 50 yards than have a 1/8 inch value. So for him to be topping off at 50 yds tells me there is something wrong with the scope. It seems that the scope at 358 clicks is giving less than 20 total Moa elevation. __________________ ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. ONE IS JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR SOUL AND THE OTHER IS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOUR FREEDOM.

November 10, 2017, 02:34 PM	#14
straightshooterjake Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2016 Posts: 122	I wrote an article on my blog about how to sight in a scope. The article has a section about troubleshooting problems like this. The short summary is: remove the scope and rails, inspect everything carefully, then put it all back. Often this process resolves issues with things being out of alignment. The article is here: How to Sight in a Scope And the section with details about remounting a scope is here: Remounting a Scope with Extra Care __________________ My blog: http://straightshooterjake.blogspot.com/

November 7, 2017, 03:55 PM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	I think the math is off in the above post. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you have 25moa of adjustment up and 25moa down (total of 50) and each click is 1/4" at 100 yards, you'd have to move it 100 clicks to get the scope to move 25moa at that distance. Although this isn't Bushnell's best scope, it's far from being a bad scope. It's covered under their 100% lifetime guarantee. I once had a Bushnell scope that had nothing wrong with it and got a full refund from them which included my shipping costs. I had cataracts and didn't know it, and I couldn't see the mil dots. They very nicely gave me all my money back and I bought another scope with the money that had thicker cross hairs instead of dots. It wasn't part of the refund that I had to buy another scope, they just were good on their word about their complete satisfaction guarantee. FWIW, I've never had a Bushnell scope fail for any reason and I've owned a dozen or so of them. If your scope is tracking when you move the adjustments, it's probably the mounts the scope is attached to. They either need to be reversed, or you need to use something like Burris Signature Zee rings with the inserts to change poi for up and down and left and right. I doubt your problem is the scope.

November 7, 2017, 05:19 PM	#4
RychenCop Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: North Augusta,SC Posts: 11	Thanks for the replies. I'm using weaver rings and base. I don't believe there is a front or rear to either, but i'll check that. As far as the scope, one of the features is supposed to be the ability to handle magnum loads. Which is why I chose it for this rifle. I'll count the clicks and check the rings and base and report any findings.

November 7, 2017, 05:36 PM	#5
RychenCop Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: North Augusta,SC Posts: 11	358 clicks from top out to bottom out.

November 7, 2017, 08:35 PM	#7
RychenCop Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: North Augusta,SC Posts: 11	yes, i have the 63B base. i have ordered a leupold base from Henry and will try that. i don't think it's the scope, but time will tell. i'm using Hornady ammo. i've had great results with that ammo and iron sights. thanks

November 7, 2017, 08:49 PM	#8
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Let me know how it turns out.

November 9, 2017, 10:01 AM	#12
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Sometimes. But not always. Tweaking the cartridges powder charge may help in such high/low targeting circumstances.

November 10, 2017, 01:35 PM	#13
the possum Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 555	Dang. That's far enough off that you should be able to look down the barrel and see that the scope tube is not parallel with your gun. Wonder if there's something wrong where they drilled the mounting holes in the receiver or something? (I'm not familiar with the Henrys.)

November 11, 2017, 08:32 AM	#15
Scoits Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2017 Posts: 178	I have on more then one occasion shimmed the mount base and gotten out of trouble.

November 15, 2017, 03:26 PM	#17
RychenCop Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: North Augusta,SC Posts: 11	Well I changed the mount and rings to Leupold and just came from the range. Same results. The scope just runs out of elevation. Going to contact Bushnell shortly and arrange a return.

December 10, 2017, 12:28 PM	#18
ireload2 Junior member Join Date: December 23, 2016 Posts: 30	If you have a 45-70 sighted in at 100 yards you will be shocked to look through the bore. With the sights on the target the bore will point about 3 feet higher. If you mount a scope use the Burris rings with the eccentric inserts to take care of the gross adjustment. There is nothing wrong with the scope. You are not familiar with scoping low velocity rifles.

December 11, 2017, 04:57 PM	#19
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	Call Henry and talk w/ their cust service dept.

December 25, 2017, 07:23 PM	#20
3Crows Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2017 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 220	I have and shoot a Marlin 45-70 with a variety of loads, including home loads, and I typically use a laser bore sighter to get on paper with a new rifle and the same with this one. No way my Marlin (new manufacture) has to be aimed three feet above the target to be on at 100 yards. The Hornady stuff is 3 inches high for a 200 yard zero. Anyways, most likely the Henry might have barrel droop or at least the barrel is not in alignment with the receiver. There is nothing unusual about a 45-70 that should require shims or find a scope wanting for more elevation at only 100 yards. Anyways, hope it gets on target without out to much more fuss. 3T

December 26, 2017, 06:31 AM	#21
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	If possible I would give another scope a quick try. That may point to what is wrong. You seem to have already eliminated the base and rings as the problem.