Bayonet

Seeker · November 22, 2001, 03:18 AM

Rather than a pistol at the bedside, what are your thoughts on a M-1 Carbine w/ fixed bayonet as a home (small house with no neighbors in the line of fire) defense set up? Naturally it is secured so as to prevent unauthorized access.

It points easily, it is easy to operate, has two extra mags on the stock, and a pointy thing on the front end to keep the BG from running up and taking from you if you're in contact range.

Is a bayoneted BG more of a legal liability than one thats been shot through?

C.R.Sam · November 22, 2001, 05:44 AM

Seems to me that it would take a lot more skill, training and practice to become proficient enough with a bayonet to protect your castle.

Bayonet extraction system on the .30 carbine is a bit weak, might want to consider sumpin with a tad heavier cartridge.

Sam

Seeker · November 26, 2001, 02:17 AM

Hello Sam,

I am familir with the basic lunge, uppercut-buttstroke, downward slash and the parry. I don't have any formal bayonet training, but I do have some fencing (foil) experience. What other moves are good? My thought was that sompthin' long and pointy would prevent a BG from getting up close and personal, and give them pause before rush my person.

By .30 cal extraction system, I am guessin' you mean the the automatic aiming feature - when bayonet is in sumpthin' soft, you know the muzzle is on target, you can pull the trigger and be fairly certainof a hit - point and shoot made easy.

Certainly a bayonet with a M-1 Carbine attached is a more effective HD weapon than most handguns. What do you think?

Norman Bates · November 26, 2001, 05:29 AM

Excuse me if i'm totally wrong but me thinks that it's much harder to manouver with a long gun for room clearing purposes, if the gun is made even longer by said bayonnet then it becomes a CQB nightmare.

David Park · November 26, 2001, 05:41 PM

I'll assume we are talking about home defense instead of home clearing. I regard clearing a house alone as a nightmare whether I have a handgun or a long gun.

I believe an M-1 Carbine is only 3 feet long, which is about the same as a shotgun with 18" barrel. That's fine for bedroom defense if you're not worried about overpenetration.

I suppose a bayonet might be helpful if someone comes charging into the room and his momentum continues him forward after being perforated, but otherwise I'm not sure of the benefit. That said, I definitely want a bayonet for the 590A1 I plan to buy some day.

I hear the Mossberg has a pretty good bayonet extraction system.

striderteen · December 14, 2001, 01:20 AM

I've heard that the shotgun-style grip in the M-1 and M-14 battle rifles make them easier to quickly turn and target with than a more conventional assault rifle pistol grip...that's why the guys with an M-14 usually had point if there was a choice, not the ones with M-16s.

A bayonet looks scary, and may provide an additional psycological deterrent to the BG.

cookhj · December 14, 2001, 02:02 AM

the bayonet extraction system is when you get your bayonet stuck in the BG and you fire a shot into him to dislodge your blade.

the moves are vertical buttstroke, horizontal buttstroke, slash, smash, parry left and parry right.

good luck!

oh, and the 590 with the bayonet lug (sort of a modern "trench gun") would be great to have!

Fred Hansen · December 14, 2001, 02:38 AM

Seeker,

We rarely agree, but if I were on the jury, I would advocate for your acquittal. I don't much care how the bad gut bites it, so long as he's dead/wounded/maimed. If someone breaks into your home, they are meat on a stick, or skewer in this case, at least as far as I'm concerned.

C.R.Sam · December 14, 2001, 11:19 AM

Certainly an interesting concept. Been a long time since I have worked with bayonet......gotta play with it om short gun. Assult rifle layout definately not good as noted above.

As far as legality......don't see where any more trouble stoppin a bad guy with bayonet any worse than doin it with a pot of boilin soup or a .44mag. Same problem, same solution....stop him.

Sam

ankara36 · December 14, 2001, 11:48 AM

Bayonet? You mean one of them pointy things that makes an "Assualt Rifle" look like even more of a McDonald's massacre/toddler slayer?

Given all the bayonet murders in the US before 1994, I'm SOOOO glad the gov't included a bayonet lug on their "Assualt Weapons Ban" list.

Otherwise they may have tried to take away something useful.

Bruegger · December 14, 2001, 08:09 PM

I'd say you're better off just poking the bad guy without a bayonet. A good, solid jab to the sternum without a bayonet should make him pause for a second. Follow up with a buttstroke and use the time you bought to reload or tap-rack-bang.

Semper fi,
Bruegger out.

Christopher II · December 15, 2001, 01:36 PM

Concur with Bruegger, for the most part. Leave the bayonet off. A good jab to the gut with a 1/2" diameter rifle barrel is going to HURT.

I'd stay away from the butt-stroke, though. It's pretty easy to break your stock by slamming it against some poor bugger's skull. Save your rifle for the shooting.

That said, a bayonet for CQB or room entry might be an idea worth exploring. By someone other than me, I mean.

John Steyrs' Cold Steel is a good introduction to bayonet fighting (among other things.) If you can find a copy, you might snap it up.

- Chris

stinger · December 15, 2001, 02:32 PM

everyone has their personal preference for home defense. it seems that most people here are against your use of this particular rifle w/bayonet. at least they have put some thought into their reasoning.

however, i think that any long gun is better for defense than a handgun. better accuracy, stopping power, scare-factor, etc., etc.

i think what you have chosen is fine as long as you practice, practice, practice.

stinger

November 22, 2001, 03:18 AM	#1
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: Lacomb, Oregon Posts: 1,393	Bayonet Rather than a pistol at the bedside, what are your thoughts on a M-1 Carbine w/ fixed bayonet as a home (small house with no neighbors in the line of fire) defense set up? Naturally it is secured so as to prevent unauthorized access. It points easily, it is easy to operate, has two extra mags on the stock, and a pointy thing on the front end to keep the BG from running up and taking from you if you're in contact range. Is a bayoneted BG more of a legal liability than one thats been shot through? __________________ Molon Labe Seeker "The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson Don't Tread On Me! "Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none" -- Thomas Jefferson In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us. -Thich Nhat Hanh

November 26, 2001, 02:17 AM	#3
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: Lacomb, Oregon Posts: 1,393	Hello Sam, I am familir with the basic lunge, uppercut-buttstroke, downward slash and the parry. I don't have any formal bayonet training, but I do have some fencing (foil) experience. What other moves are good? My thought was that sompthin' long and pointy would prevent a BG from getting up close and personal, and give them pause before rush my person. By .30 cal extraction system, I am guessin' you mean the the automatic aiming feature - when bayonet is in sumpthin' soft, you know the muzzle is on target, you can pull the trigger and be fairly certainof a hit - point and shoot made easy. Certainly a bayonet with a M-1 Carbine attached is a more effective HD weapon than most handguns. What do you think? __________________ Molon Labe Seeker "The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson Don't Tread On Me! "Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none" -- Thomas Jefferson In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us. -Thich Nhat Hanh

November 26, 2001, 05:29 AM	#4
Norman Bates Member Join Date: October 10, 2001 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Posts: 87	Excuse me if i'm totally wrong but me thinks that it's much harder to manouver with a long gun for room clearing purposes, if the gun is made even longer by said bayonnet then it becomes a CQB nightmare. __________________ Mother says i should stick to knives! Leather by www.haugenhandgunleather.com/

December 14, 2001, 02:38 AM	#8
Fred Hansen Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: The middle of WWIII Posts: 3,335	Seeker, We rarely agree, but if I were on the jury, I would advocate for your acquittal. I don't much care how the bad gut bites it, so long as he's dead/wounded/maimed. If someone breaks into your home, they are meat on a stick, or skewer in this case, at least as far as I'm concerned. __________________ "This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! No bomb was set off, no missile was fired, no weapon (i.e., a device that was solely and specifically manufactured to kill humans) was used. A boxcutter! -- I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing?" Michael Moore Last edited by Fred Hansen; December 14, 2001 at 01:59 PM.

December 15, 2001, 01:36 PM	#12
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	Concur with Bruegger, for the most part. Leave the bayonet off. A good jab to the gut with a 1/2" diameter rifle barrel is going to HURT. I'd stay away from the butt-stroke, though. It's pretty easy to break your stock by slamming it against some poor bugger's skull. Save your rifle for the shooting. That said, a bayonet for CQB or room entry might be an idea worth exploring. By someone other than me, I mean. John Steyrs' Cold Steel is a good introduction to bayonet fighting (among other things.) If you can find a copy, you might snap it up. - Chris __________________ "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." – Robert Heinlein "Contrary to popular belief, your vote does not matter, and you cannot make a difference." - Bob Murphy, "Picking Neither of Two Evils" My PGP Public Key

November 22, 2001, 05:44 AM	#2
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Seems to me that it would take a lot more skill, training and practice to become proficient enough with a bayonet to protect your castle. Bayonet extraction system on the .30 carbine is a bit weak, might want to consider sumpin with a tad heavier cartridge. Sam

November 26, 2001, 05:41 PM	#5
David Park Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 1,224	I'll assume we are talking about home defense instead of home clearing. I regard clearing a house alone as a nightmare whether I have a handgun or a long gun. I believe an M-1 Carbine is only 3 feet long, which is about the same as a shotgun with 18" barrel. That's fine for bedroom defense if you're not worried about overpenetration. I suppose a bayonet might be helpful if someone comes charging into the room and his momentum continues him forward after being perforated, but otherwise I'm not sure of the benefit. That said, I definitely want a bayonet for the 590A1 I plan to buy some day. I hear the Mossberg has a pretty good bayonet extraction system.

December 14, 2001, 01:20 AM	#6
striderteen Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Pasadena, California Posts: 590	I've heard that the shotgun-style grip in the M-1 and M-14 battle rifles make them easier to quickly turn and target with than a more conventional assault rifle pistol grip...that's why the guys with an M-14 usually had point if there was a choice, not the ones with M-16s. A bayonet looks scary, and may provide an additional psycological deterrent to the BG.

December 14, 2001, 02:02 AM	#7
cookhj Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2001 Posts: 330	the bayonet extraction system is when you get your bayonet stuck in the BG and you fire a shot into him to dislodge your blade. the moves are vertical buttstroke, horizontal buttstroke, slash, smash, parry left and parry right. good luck! oh, and the 590 with the bayonet lug (sort of a modern "trench gun") would be great to have!

December 14, 2001, 11:19 AM	#9
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Certainly an interesting concept. Been a long time since I have worked with bayonet......gotta play with it om short gun. Assult rifle layout definately not good as noted above. As far as legality......don't see where any more trouble stoppin a bad guy with bayonet any worse than doin it with a pot of boilin soup or a .44mag. Same problem, same solution....stop him. Sam

December 14, 2001, 11:48 AM	#10
ankara36 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Posts: 257	Bayonet? You mean one of them pointy things that makes an "Assualt Rifle" look like even more of a McDonald's massacre/toddler slayer? Given all the bayonet murders in the US before 1994, I'm SOOOO glad the gov't included a bayonet lug on their "Assualt Weapons Ban" list. Otherwise they may have tried to take away something useful.

December 14, 2001, 08:09 PM	#11
Bruegger Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 1999 Location: Indiana Posts: 637	I'd say you're better off just poking the bad guy without a bayonet. A good, solid jab to the sternum without a bayonet should make him pause for a second. Follow up with a buttstroke and use the time you bought to reload or tap-rack-bang. Semper fi, Bruegger out.

December 15, 2001, 02:32 PM	#13
stinger Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Location: west texas Posts: 772	everyone has their personal preference for home defense. it seems that most people here are against your use of this particular rifle w/bayonet. at least they have put some thought into their reasoning. however, i think that any long gun is better for defense than a handgun. better accuracy, stopping power, scare-factor, etc., etc. i think what you have chosen is fine as long as you practice, practice, practice. stinger