When TSHTF

[exilefromhell]

I thought that this would be the best place for this. I apoligize in advance if it is not.

What is your visual of "when the [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] hits the fan"? The event(s) that we all hope never happens but we train and stockpile for just in case.

I mean is it urban ground war in a major city? Is it a US invasion? A draft? A war on US soil right in your back yard? Nuclear war? What?

Thanks

[Mahakorin]

When my OP is overrun by gerbils.

[115grfmj]

Just watch how quickly our society degenarates, if this really starts happening. All those urbanites, and suburbanites, out looking for food etc. And those who just like to capitalize on the mahem to commit crimes. Not to mention those who are really sick
with smallpox, or whatever. Those of us with families and children
if we care anything about them must maintain the ability to
"keep others at a distance" so to speak and protect our families
abilty to survive. That is why we train and build our supplies.

[carlosg]

After 9-11 (and I live only 12 miles away from NYC) I realized that we (my family and I) are at a big disadvantage by being dependent from the *city*, if the truck delivering food to my local supermarket cannot make a delivery that day, we all are in deep [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]. If a nuclear bomb goes off the dust and radioactivity will kill us all. I am seriously considering selling the house and moving to the country, where we can grow our own food and be self-sufficient; stock piling ammo and guns and other goods, I think the SHTF will happen, sooner or later, so we all should at least consider our options and plan accordingly while we have time and resources.

[exilefromhell]

I thought I was alone in the thinking.

I have been thinking that a ground "war" right here in the US will happen- in your and my neighborhood. Maybe not foriegn, but how far fetched it that? If not that, just rioting, looting, rogues, murderers, etc, etc...will walk down the street solo, in groups, whatever..breaking into houses, vandalizing property, raping women, seting things ablaze, etc., etc... All at once or over weeks or months. What? Riots or looting or vandalizing doesn't happen? To far fetched? Internal terrorism w/ Anthrax yesturday was a rediculous idea. Jumbo jets flying into the Twin Towers was ludicrous.

Call me crazy... In fact, I much rather be crazy then for any of that to happen!

[Dave R]

IMHO it would take a major disaster to make the major systems of the USA stop working. The nation has lots of backup/repair capability. Even one really serious disaster--suitcase nuke in a major city, blowing a dam, etc.--would be a local disaster, but would not hurt the overall nation much.

A successful bio/chem attack could do it, though. If multiple cities are involved, and trvel is shot down, it could get bad fast.

I'm more concerned about local breakdown over a short period of time--i.e. rioting/looting. That happens on a fairly regular basis. Cleveland recently. Natural disasters (hurricane, earthquake, tornado, flood) are another fairly regular occurrance.

So the first priority is to be able to deal with a short-term (several days to a month) disruption in services. Next priority would be dealing with a full-scale disruption of the country.

[Shok]

My visual is:

rioting probably
looting yes
US invasion no
draft maybe
war on US soil no
Nuclear attack maybe
mass exodus
from cities yes
bio/chem attack yes
economic colapse yes
gov colapse no
military colapse no

I'm worried about millions of city slickers trying to move into my community when/if TSHTF happens.

How do you stock pile water??

Shok

Anything on US Soil within reach of my trusty rifle.

[Jay Baker]

ExileFromHell, there are so many scenarios one could imagine, I won't even attempt to list any... but, given your scenario of imagining multiple looters, robbers, murderers, rapists, cutthroats, thugs, bandits, and other ne'erdowells, walking casually down your street, going from house to house, plundering and pillaging and murdering at leisure...

...Aren't there any people in your neighborhood who are armed, and just might possibly RESIST??!! If not, if I were you, I'd move from that neighborhood in a New York minute.

Tell you what would happen in my neighborhood, should such a scenario arise. About the first time a group of bandits started down the street and advanced on a house or two, about 90 % of the men and women homeowners along the street, would shoot the bandits so full of holes they'd look like a piece of tripe.

Frankly, having run itno a criminal or two, and a looter or two, I can assure you, they are not invincible, nor are they bulletproof.

I don't think my neighborhood is the only one in America that would "repel boarders."

FWIW. J.B.

[FPrice]

My visual is nothing quite so dramatic. It involves anything which could interupt the normal flow of goods and services to people. Think for a moment how many people have more than a few days supply of food on hand. Or of who could cope if fuel supplies and electricity were cut off. How would YOU survive if the normal amenities of civilized life were suddenly not there.

Localized riots and natural disasters are the events which most often come to mind and occur, causing these sorts of problems. Yet each is "generally" short-lived, although the effects of natural disasters may hang around for a while.

Unless you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, most of the problem will probably happen around you, but it's effects on your ability to take of yourself and your family which defines "SHTF" to me.

[KPS]

I think I'm more concerned with those people that didn't prepare for a disaster try and take/steal my food/goods/property in a disaster situation.A disaster could be natural or man-made.Either way I'd like to be prepared.Stockpiled food could also be of great help if you are tight on $$ and can't afford to go grocery shopping.

How do you stock pile water??

I read somewhere that you can store drinking water in your waterbed mattress.Plastic 55gal drums will also work.

[Bogie]

Lately I've been worried that the diaperheads will go after transport - If they started plinking at truckers, we could have some major problems with transport...

[Dave R]

How do you stock pile water??

Note that you already have 2-3 gallons per toilet and 30-40 gallons in your hot water heater. Easily drained. Make sure to shut off the water feed as soon as anything bad happens. Keep suspect water out of your lines.

Options for storing more water:

A. Inexpensive option: buy 55 gallon plastic drums. Put 'em where you want 'em before you fill 'em, for best results.

B. "Stealth" Option: install or have installed an in-ground tank. Available from farm/livestock supply places. Purify the water on the way in, and test regularly. Use a pool testing kit and monitor chlorine level?

C. "Hide in plain sight" options:
1. Spa/hot tub
2. Above-ground pool
3. In-ground pool

You can always use C1 to soak away stress in SHTF situations. Also a good secondary benefit to sell the significant other.

[exilefromhell]

Aren't there any people in your neighborhood who are armed, and just might possibly RESIST??!!

If I told you the truth, you probably wouldn't believe me. I did a poll on another board I am a member of for motorcycles on wether or not they had guns to see if my neighborhood was normal, and I was wrong. I thought that the majority of citizens were non-gun owners like my neighborhood but that poll on that board proved other wise. It turned out better than 80% owned. A made it a big bold statement that if the person entered the thread to please take the time to vote as to make it as accurate as possible. Needless to say, I was shocked. Now I know that those results might seem wrong because hey...motorcycles go to gether with guns as much as beer and women, etc, etc...

I'm still left w/ that feeling that the majority of the country will be rendered as victums if TSHTF. Does anybody have any statistics on this or know where I can look? -Percentage of US gun owners?

This of course goes along with the statement below:

I'm worried about millions of city slickers trying to move into my community when/if TSHTF happens.

I saw a low budget movie once...can't remember what channel (probably only good enough for TV)....where a small town was cut off from supplies (milk, bread, etc.) and they lost power. I can't tell you why..long time ago. Anyway, it was a community where everybody knew everybody but when "TSHTF" people where trying to steal food from each other...neighbors where stressed out trying to sleep w/the neighbors spouses...ppl that never owned a gun b4 where pawning there expensive watchs for shotguns at the local gun dealer (which he gladly accepted btw) for home protection...and at least one person was shot over something pretty rediculous. But it goes to show that it isn't as far fetched as one might believe. Does anybody know what the name of that movie was?

[nbk2000]

I don't know what movie you're talking about, but there was a twilight zone episode similar to that.

"The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street"

Maple Street, U.S.A. Late summer. A tree-lined little road of front porch gliders, barbecues, the laughter of children, and the bell of an ice-cream vendor. At the sound of the roar and the flash of light, it will be precisely 6:43 P.M. on Maple Street... This is Maple Street on a late Saturday afternoon, in the last calm and reflective moment - before the monsters came."

After what is believed to be a meteor flies overhead, Maple Street experiences a total power failure. Pete Van Horn leaves to find what is going on. Tommy, a reader of sci-fi, says human- looking aliens have infiltrated Maple Street. No one takes this seriously until Mr. Goodman's car cranks for a few seconds. Suspicion falls on him, made stronger by a neighbor's memory of seeing him looking up at the stars at night. Everyone begins to panic as the evening approaches. When a mysterious figure walks towards them in the dark, Charlie Farnsworth takes a neighbor's rifle and fires. The mysterious figure turns out to be the returning Pete Van Horn. Charlie is then accused of being the alien, then Tommy, then total madness breaks out. As various house lights flash on and off, rioting breaks out. Two nearby aliens watch these events. One tells the other that by manipulating electricity, it is easy to turn neighbor against neighbor. Maple Street is only the beginning.

"The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices - to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own - for the children, and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone."

Even more true now in this era of mass media and sheeples blind obiedience to the media whore. IF (Dan Rather/Peter Jennins/ other talking head) say you're a (Sexual Predator/Drug Lord/Militia Nut/Terrorist/Whatever) then you're F****d. No matter how much you protest your innocence, the sheeple will never hear of it because it's not going to be on the talk shows or the 10 o'clock disinform...I mean news.....program.

I don't think the US is going to go to hell overnight, it'll be a very gradual slide from first world democracy to third world police state over the course of a lifetime, one freedom and right at a time being exchanged for "safety" :barf: from the threat de jour(Sexual Predator/Drug Lord/Militia Nut/Terrorist/Whatever).

This in turn will either trigger another civil war/revolution, or it'll collapse into somalia, writ large.

Not that I'd rule out mutant zombies or resurrected dinosaurs rampaging.

I just prepare for the daily assualt on good manners by punks, theives, and criminals. Anything larger is out of my concern.

[bastiat]

Is the movie trigger effect? http://us.imdb.com/Title?0117965

Saw parts, wife throws shotgun into the pool because she's afraid of guns. Really bad movie from what I saw.

[exilefromhell]

I do believe that was it. If ppl are crowding the gun store and older gentlemen shoots some guy in the front yard...thats it.

Makes me cringe to see the trailer.

[444]

"I'm worried about millions of city slickers trying to move into my community when/if TSHTF happens"

Ditto


Especially if infected or contaminated.

[GSB]

How do you stock pile water??

How about a well and either a manual well head or a wind powered well head. Then you don't have to stockpile at all! (of course, this might not be a solution where you live).

[nbk2000]

You can get a poly storage tank of several thousand gallons capacity for less that $1,000.

Bury it half underground for stability, then berm the top half for protection against bullets cause it'd really suck to watch your clean water supply dribbling out of a bullet hole.

You can either hook it up in series with the mains/well so it's constantly filled with fresh water, or, if you're worried about contaimination, you can fill up the tank monthly with water and treat it with chemicals/silver to remove/kill chemical/biological contaminants.

[LASur5r]

You're not extreme enough...

WTSHTF is the 2nd Coming, Plague and Pestulence (sp?),the basic Rising of the Dead...you know Armageddon with the 4 Horsemen. If that's what you mean...it's bend over and grab your ankles time.

Otherwise, if you're talking about worse case scenario on a basic level, then small pox or a virulent strain will be used that is resistant to all preventative or treatable medicines. That'll basically take out 2 out 5 people at its' contageous(sp?) stage, while that is going on Bin Laden and his merry makers will get a hold of some of those suitcase nuclear devices and play havoc on our nuclear plants with radiation spills that will basically kill everything within a forty mile radius of any nuclear plant.
This'll cause civil unrest on a level that we have never seen before.
Predators will run in packs and only folks that have the will, determination, and the food and armament will be able to hold them off on a temporary basis. Unless we organize and go after the BG's.
We will have polorization like you have never seen before. The good folks will circle the wagons...the bad guys will run in packs and try to raid the good folks. The in betweens well, they will be trying to appease the both sides.

Then if we don't get our act together soon, some other country will see their opportunity and try to invade the states....OMG, it's the Canadians!

Then we'll break up into city-states, and start all over to make a new world order....

[dctag]

I live in Utah right now but have a lot of family and a house in northernWyoming. Thanks to the winters I dont think too many people will come here. We have a lot of space a lot of animals and a ton of guns in the state so I think we could put up a great fight if massive amounts of BG's start trying to attack. And if they do attack it better be in the 3 summer months because if winter hits it is not a whole lot better than winter in Afgahnistan. As for my home we have a 1 year supply of food and I have a few thousand rounds of ammo for my gun cabinet.

[gyp_c2]

Yes...I remember that episode. Scared the begeezus outta' me...It's always like that. The least little thing that suddenly or gradually, won't go away...The power will flicker and die for a couple of hours, then come back on and I'll relax again...Eat and go to sleep watching TV, only to wake at 2:37am with a strange sound(s) from outside...Get up and check, noticing the dogs are underfoot and a little too awake for this time of the morning...Recognizing the sounds of voices as I open the front door with my 45 behind my right hip...slightly blocking it from view as I open the outer door and scan the red and blue lights from the distance 'causing the shadows and what light there is to distort and remain slightly sharp, but indistinct features of the darkened, too quiet and completely blacked out homes in each direction suddenly strike me along with the flash that I didn't see coming...

No real sounds, but a dazzling flash and then the dogs are over and past me hitting the wooden gate and fence with the familiar rattle and crack as some of the 1x6s give under a too aggressive hit from Angel...the 90lb mongrel that befriended my son and took his place in the family by choice...Now I'm struggling to rise and...

..."HEY!!!...sorry 'bout the noise mister!"

...a troubleshooter I might've worked alongside during storms and wind damaged trees at some time in the last few years, shouts with the tired voice of service guys that missed dinner hours ago during the beginning of "whatever" 'caused the outages in the first place..."You OK?"...

"yep"...as I stick the pistol into my waistband under my Carharrt and step out to the gate...

"......Hell of a storm....wadnit?"

"yep"...as I point the dogs back inside and walk to the computer to see what the hell's happened, I'll stop in the kitchen and get a cup of coffee...

...Except, some time it'll be somethin' else...


...That's the way it is for me...I always expect it...