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Old May 26, 2016, 12:40 AM   #1
duraholiday
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Need SMG and SBR's in michigan info

I am looking at buying either a Kel Tech sub 2000 or a CZ scorpion evo 3, my first pistol caliber carbine!
The Kel Tech already has a collapsible stock and I've heard that Michigan considers it a pistol, therefore do I need the ATF stamp cause it'l be considered a sbr? and of course id add a stock to the evo. This being said are sbr's legal in Michigan? does any one own one in Michigan? I get a lot of mixed answers online and also a gun shop said they are illegal to be sold in Michigan but another said they are legal....so i figured id ask for my self....

Also if Michigan does consider the sub 2k a pistol does that mean my cpl license covers it for carrying it in my truck?

Thanks
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Old May 26, 2016, 04:11 AM   #2
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duraholiday
The Kel Tech already has a collapsible stock and I've heard that Michigan considers it a pistol, therefore do I need the ATF stamp cause it'l be considered a sbr?
I'm not sure I fully understand this question. A pistol is not the same as an SBR, not under federal or Michigan law. Under federal law a Sub-2000 is a rifle and not an SBR since an SBR is defined by federal law as follows:

"The term 'short-barreled rifle' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

But it looks like Michigan law doesn't define it as an SBR either. According to Michigan law, an SBR is defined as "a rifle having 1 or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a weapon made from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches."

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vfb...me=mcl-750-222

So it appears that both federal and Michigan law define an SBR in exactly the same way; neither definitions include the Sub-2000 since it has a barrel over 16 inches long. But it appears the difference is where they each define a pistol. Federal law defines a pistol as "a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand", whereas Michigan law defines pistol as, "a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 26 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm."

It seems the issue comes down to the definition of "overall length". The ATF has long interpreted "overall length" as being measured with an adjustable or folding stock fully extended, that's why the Sub-2000 still meets the 26 inch requirement to make it a regular rifle and not an SBR. But I've read online (but not confirmed) that Michigan's under-26-inch pistol law measures the firearm based on its length fully collapsed. So if that's correct, the Sub-2000 may be a pistol under Michigan law, even while it's a rifle under federal law. Either way, it's not an SBR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duraholiday
and of course id add a stock to the evo.
Then you'd need a federal tax stamp since the barrel is shorter than 16" and you're adding a stock.
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Last edited by Theohazard; May 26, 2016 at 04:35 AM.
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Old May 26, 2016, 04:18 AM   #3
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duraholiday
This being said are sbr's legal in Michigan?
It appears they are (you still have to follow federal law, of course).

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-legalization/
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Old May 26, 2016, 04:31 AM   #4
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duraholiday
Also if Michigan does consider the sub 2k a pistol does that mean my cpl license covers it for carrying it in my truck?
It appears that may be the case, but I haven't fully verified it. Here's a PDF from Handgunlaw.us regarding Michigan carry law:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/michigan.pdf

Notice that it simply refers to carrying a pistol. So if Michigan defines a pistol as simply being shorter than 26" and the state measures the overall length with the stock collapsed, it seems that the Sub-2000 is considered a pistol under state law and may be OK to carry concealed. However, I'm far less certain about Michigan law than I am about federal law, so you may want to consult a local expert in the matter of your state's laws.
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Last edited by Theohazard; May 26, 2016 at 04:38 AM.
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