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Old May 25, 2016, 01:41 PM   #1
Yankee Traveler
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Hawaii Gun Registration

Putting gun owners on a federal data base, so they can tracked if they commit crimes elsewhere.

Sounds innocent enough....

No, sounds scary as hell. If this does pass, I'm sure California, Massachusetts, New York etc. will be right behind them.

I actually came here today looking for more insight, expecting that someone else would have posted the topic. Maybe I'm in the wrong section...?
If so mods, please redirect.

Is this constitutional?
Have any other states started bills similar?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/24...-database.html
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Old May 25, 2016, 07:59 PM   #2
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It seems especially bizarre given Hawaii's status as an island state thousands of miles from the nearest land. It's not like gun owners are arming themselves and jumping on planes to California to commit crimes.
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Old May 25, 2016, 09:32 PM   #3
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Not the issues in Hawaii politics sports fans. There are politicians there that believe all guns are bad in the hands of citizens.
This isn't the first time Hawaii politicians have showed their anti-Constitutional bent, and probably won't be the last.
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Old May 26, 2016, 09:12 AM   #4
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Let's talk about the issue. Just remarks - not useful.
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Old May 26, 2016, 11:06 AM   #5
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Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't Hawaii already have comprehensive gun registration?

If so, am I correct that the issue here is a proposal to put names already on the registry into a federally-run automatic-arrest-notification database?

Pardon my ignorance with regards to HI state law.
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Last edited by carguychris; May 26, 2016 at 02:03 PM. Reason: minor reword
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Old May 26, 2016, 03:09 PM   #6
Glenn E. Meyer
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This seems an important issue to discuss in terms of legality, appeals, etc.

However, I've deleted several comments that are just contentless complaints about society and the like.

If you don't have a specific comment on the program itself from a legal or civil rights point of view - spare us.
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Old May 26, 2016, 10:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
If so, am I correct that the issue here is a proposal to put names already on the registry into a federally-run automatic-arrest-notification database?
This is my question as well, Is there a federally run auto arrest database, or is Hawaii volunteering to become the first state to institute one?
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Old May 26, 2016, 10:46 PM   #8
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So if you commit a felony in Denver, get convicted, then come back to Hawaii after your sentence is served, you get your guns taken away? Or do the Hawaiian police just take your guns in Hawaii while you are serving time in Denver?

Or can you just get arrested for jaywalking in Peoria and lose your guns in Hawaii? Before or after the charges against you are dropped or reduced?
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Old May 27, 2016, 07:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguychris
If so, am I correct that the issue here is a proposal to put names already on the registry into a federally-run automatic-arrest-notification database?
I'm sure the Federal Government doesn't mind states volunteering gun registration information. After Hawaii, who knows what other states will volunteer also. It wouldn't surprise me if places like California, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, District of Columbia also sign up for this kind of Federal Gun Registration. What worries me the most though, is after those states sign up and perhaps a few more, I'm sure there will be a call for the rest to be involuntarily signed up. Look for attempts to cut state funding, lawsuits, etc
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Old May 27, 2016, 08:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee Traveler
Is there a federally run auto arrest database...?
The linked story refer to a "Rap Back" database, and a Google search yielded this link from the FBI (scroll down):
Quote:
Rap Back Service

The Rap Back Service provides authorized agencies with notification of criminal, and, in limited cases, civil activity of individuals that occurs after the initial processing and retention of criminal or civil transactions. Rap Back does not provide new authority to agencies, including the FBI, for collection of biometric and biographical information. It does, however, implement new response services to notify agencies of subsequent activity for individuals enrolled in the service. Including a more timely process of confirming suitability of those individuals placed in positions of trust and notification to users of criminal activity for those individuals placed on probation or parole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilimanjaro
Or can you just get arrested for jaywalking in Peoria and lose your guns in Hawaii? Before or after the charges against you are dropped or reduced?
I think that's the key question.

Another important question is whether this action could open the door for HI to cross-reference the "Rap Back" registry against other state-run registries such as lists of professional license holders, e.g. engineers, surveyors, barbers, etc. This could cause a chilling effect if HI licensees have reason to believe that a public intoxication arrest in North Zulch, TX* could cause HI to immediately initiate licensing sanctions if their names are also on the gun registry.

Lastly, one can't help but wonder if and when HI will actually get around to removing names from the "Rap Back" database if the person gives up all their guns and is removed from the registry. I have a suspicion that state officials will become oddly lackadaisical about this if they don't face legal sanctions for their failure to promptly do so.

*A real place. No offense to the fine folks who live in North Zulch.
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Old May 27, 2016, 09:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
I'm sure the Federal Government doesn't mind states volunteering gun registration information. After Hawaii, who knows what other states will volunteer also. It wouldn't surprise me if places like California, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, District of Columbia also sign up for this kind of Federal Gun Registration. What worries me the most though, is after those states sign up and perhaps a few more, I'm sure there will be a call for the rest to be involuntarily signed up. Look for attempts to cut state funding, lawsuits, etc
Although the FBI might not mind doing this. Is it legal for them to do this? Someone needs to look up what the law and funding allows to be put into these data basis. Personally, I have my doubts that the FBI would want to spend the time effort and money to vastly extend the data base without getting the money to do it.
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Old May 27, 2016, 12:01 PM   #12
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For those who are familiar with Hawaii, the idea of turning over state records to the Federal government should not be much of a surprise.
Hawaii is primarily a Polynesian and Asian culture, as anyone who has lived there knows.
There's not much of a gun culture or even one of individual rights, for that matter.
So, it should not be surprising that the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights aren't primary concerns.
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Old May 27, 2016, 02:21 PM   #13
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Although the FBI might not mind doing this. Is it legal for them to do this?
Well, not exactly. Ostensibly, the 1986 FOPA prohibited a federal registry. Here's the actual legalese:

Quote:
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary’s [1] authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.
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Old May 27, 2016, 02:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
For those who are familiar with Hawaii, the idea of turning over state records to the Federal government should not be much of a surprise.
Hawaii is primarily a Polynesian and Asian culture, as anyone who has lived there knows.
There's not much of a gun culture or even one of individual rights, for that matter.
So, it should not be surprising that the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights aren't primary concerns.
Many years ago when I would pass there every few years I noted that a large percentage of the property and commerce were owned by Japanese. Everyone knows that the Japanese do not have a history of private gun ownership.
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Old June 1, 2016, 12:23 AM   #15
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The proposed Hawaii law does not violate FOPA. Rap Back is a list of names and identifying information, no more, it is not a firearms registry. Names included in the database include not only felons, but public servants (e.g. school teachers) whose positions of trust are implicated if that person should be arrested fro a felony or violent crime. The FBI only knows it has a list of names, and the system automatically sends an alert to the requesting agency when a name shows up in a criminal (and some civil) action (probably fraud cases). So technically, all that Hawaii proposes to do is to list more names to the FBI list, a list that does not state WHY they are on that list. So Hawaii will be notified if one of its registered gun owners is busted, and yes, that will probably be the basis for an arms seizure.

Pretty cute, huh?
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