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Old November 1, 2000, 12:46 PM   #1
ACB777
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1) Your ability to hit a viable area on your attacker.
2) Your attacker's will to survive.
3) God's will.

Note: You could do everything right and still get killed. That means God want's to take you home.

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Tony B.
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Old November 1, 2000, 02:07 PM   #2
LawDog
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1) Having a gun.

2) Not having a way out.

3) Luck.

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Old November 1, 2000, 02:40 PM   #3
David Scott
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IMHO the three elements are:

Mental Attitude

Training

Equipment

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Old November 1, 2000, 02:53 PM   #4
Bogie
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Heard a while back that before the proliferation of spray & pray techniques, that the average gunfight in Miami consisted of the firing of 1.1 rounds. That means that 9 out of 10 times (or more), only one round was fired......

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Old November 1, 2000, 05:13 PM   #5
Gunslinger
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At one time the figures, as I recall, were something in the order of seven feet or less and 2.7 rounds fired total by both parties.
This would indicate that speed is of great importance.

In my first face to face encounter the perpitrator fired one shot (from a Remington .22 rifle) and I fired five (from a 1911 .45) at a distance of less than 10 feet. His struck me in the hip, glancing off and doing little damage. Mine struck him beginning just below center mass, above the naval, and finished above center mass, just below the throat, with the expected result.

In my second encounter the perpitrator fired one shot (from a 9mm) striking me high in the the sternum. I fired four shots from a .44 mag. containing .44 specials loaded to (mild) .44 mag. levels (department rules against officers carry anything with the word mag. or magnum on the head stamp.:rolleyes My shots were pretty much centered in the "9" ring. The results, again were to be as expected. This encounter was at near contact distance. Close enough that I had powder burns (strippling) on my chest.
During that same gunfight (I detest the term firefight when it is applied to non-combat engagements) my partner also fired four rounds of 9mm into center mass of a second perpitrator.

During the second encounter I vividly recall thinking as the perp's gun came up "This SOB has killed me and I'm going to do my best to take him with me...."

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Old November 2, 2000, 12:24 PM   #6
Matt VDW
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In my second encounter the perpitrator fired one shot (from a 9mm) striking me high in the the sternum. [/quote]

If I may ask:

To what extent did the gunshot wound you suffered impair your ability to fight?
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Old November 2, 2000, 12:31 PM   #7
LASur5r
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1) God on your side

2) Keeping a clear head

3) Correctly assessing your situation then reacting appropriately.

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Old November 2, 2000, 04:54 PM   #8
Gunslinger
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Matt, miraculously the bullet actually bounced off of my chest. I went over backwards but I do not think it was as a result of the impact of the bullet....or it's "knock down power". I believe that it was more a combination of my lunging backwards (trying to instinctively create as much distance as possible between myself and the gun) and the psychological shock (not impact shock) of what was happening.
To give a clearer understanding; My partner and I were working under cover narcotics. We had met with one of the perpitrators (the shooter) earlier in the evening and had arranged to purchase a large quality of narcotics later in the night. The perpitrator had insisted on an area that is known for heavy drug ativity and is extremely dark. Too dark in fact for us to really have agreed but......The perp arrived at the appointed time with another person. As we were discussing the deal it was beginning to become obvious that they had no drugs and had planned a straight rip off for the money they believed us to have to be used to purchase the illegal narcotics. As we were discussing the deal approximately three to four feet apart I "felt" or "sensed" his hand come up rather than being able to actually see it. As I stated in my previous post at that moment I thought I was dead. I had no way of knowing what type or caliber of gun it was but knew that at that distance there was no way he could miss. I was carrying IWB behind my right (strong side) hip and draw as I was recoiling back and his hand was coming up. My first shot was fired a fraction of a second after his....I think. I fired the other three as I was falling and hitting the sidewalk.
Even though the bullet bounced off it knocked the wind out of me and left me disoriented. I was surprised once I regained my composure that it was not injured any more than I was. The bullet left a small (.25") jagged puncture wound that was skin deep only and large purple bruise across my entire chest.




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Old November 2, 2000, 11:57 PM   #9
George Hill
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Gunslinger - believe me - I feel your pain there.
When I took a center punch to my chest - I went back just like that too.

Another factor is your own will to survive.
This is KEY.
Just because you get shot - or you get cut... Doesnt mean your done for. It doesnt mean the fights over. If you think that - then it is. In reality - The fights just started.
2 things can happen in your body.
First - you could go into shock. This is not good.
Second - You could go Incredible Hulk. Your body is pumped full of endorphines and you get the Red Rage... You dont feel pain or you have reduced sensations. You get focused on the threat and NOTHING else matters than taken that threat down. You can't here the gunfire or taunts or horns...
Massad Ayoob has written a good deal about this.

When I took that hit, I got enraged. I was so angry that this guy would do me harm.
I drew and fired - in what seemed less than a second. The actual time - I have no idea.
I saw the BG turning his gun back to me... My gunfire was mear popping - and this was a .45!

All in all - there are so many elements in a gun fight... it hard to enumerate.
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