Two hand grip

oboe · June 20, 2012, 10:54 AM

Although I've been a shooter since the age of 10, I'm only recently a handgun shooter [last 2 years] for purposes of concealed carry and personal defense. I have two pistols - the M&P full size in 9mm and just recently the M&P Shield [also 9mm]. At an informal shoot, one of the instructors who also was a part of the meet up group watched me shoot and said I'd shoot better using the "thumbs forward" two-handed grip rather than the "thumb-on-thumb" grip that I've been using [she called it the "revolver grip"]. That's the second time a professional has volunteered that info.

I'm not at all comfortable with thumbs forward, which I've tried before, and it's a slower way for me to get a two-handed grip from holster to presentation. Is the thumbs forward grip really all that much better?

sgms · June 20, 2012, 11:03 AM

Everybody is different and for some people it is, for other the thumb on thumb works better. The only way you can tell is to practice with the thumbs forward for a bit (at lest long enough that it isn't weird feeling just because you do not use it) then decide what you like better. With 2 different instructors making the same suggestion it might be worth your time to find out.

loose_holster_dan · June 20, 2012, 11:06 AM

i was the same way at first, but then i practiced a bit more with the thumbs forward, and it actually did help me a bit. altho, making sure the gun is seated correctly in the back of your hand is more important. as is trigger finger placement.

geetarman · June 20, 2012, 11:12 AM

My experience has been the grasp of the weapon with the strong hand ( in my case, right hand ) is instrumental in making the two thumbs ( baby bottom ) natural.

The first hand to grasp the weapon should put the weapon firmly in the meat of the hand with the web of the thumb firmly under the beavertail or the underside of the top of the weapon and under the slide. Trigger finger is outside of the trigger and rests on the frame pointed forward.

If you do that, it is perfectly natural to lay the opposing thumb parallel with the existing thumb and let that thumb rest lightly on the side of the frame.

The fingers of the opposing hand find a natural anchor between the fingers of the strong hand.

Works great for me.

Geetarman

tahunua001 · June 20, 2012, 11:14 AM

different instructors teach different methods. there are a number of professional shooters that recommend thumb-on-thumb while there are others that recommend thumbs forward. both are politically correct methods that keep your weak side hand planted firmly where it needs to be while keeping the weak side thumb away from the slide. if you train very hard in each method then you will more than likely come to like the thumbs forward method more and both will become as natural as the other however if you really do no feel comfortable shooting thumbs forward there is no penalty for sticking with what works.

RickB · June 20, 2012, 11:17 AM

I was all about the "two thumbs up", Cooper Combat Hold when I started shooting handguns regularly, but soon noticed everyone, and I mean EVERYONE was shooting with two thumbs forward. It felt very unnatural to me at first, but now, after shooting with TTF for fifteen years, anything else feels weird, and I even hold my revolvers with a variation of the same grip.
People think of the "strong hand" as doing most of the work, and so a "fist" style of grip is stronger. But if you get that thumb out of the way, the weak hand can contribute 50%, or even more, of the overall grip strength, and considerably more than a locked-down thumb that results in a tiny patch of grip for the weak hand to grasp.

RBid · June 20, 2012, 11:21 AM

The very short version is that 'thumbs forward' gives more surface contact with the pistol, which means you have more control of the recoil. There are some fantastic YouTube videos to show how to do it well. I very strongly recommend transitioning to it. Once you're used to it, the results are great!

Check out Travis Haley's video

RC20 · June 20, 2012, 01:43 PM

I think its all a bunch of nonesense so people can claim they are experts and take money from people for it.

Yes there are people new to guns that have not a clue and they may need hlep with how to hold. What should be taught then is whatever feels comfortable to the shooter.

There simply is not wrong to a hold as long as the gun is steady and in the case of the semi auto you do not have parts of your hand(s) where they will get hit or sliced by the slide.

Me, I shot one thumb down, one 90 degrees and my tea drinking pinky extended. I have it pattented and will be running training classes as its proven to be superior to all those other holds.

RBid · June 20, 2012, 02:16 PM

RC20,

It's not dominating practical shooting competition by being a marketing gimmick. TTF's benefits are also extremely relevant for self defense application, since fast and accurate follow up shots are crucial.

Also:

Grip and swing the golf club however it's comfortable.
Manipulate the pool cue however it's comfortable.
Pitch the baseball however it's comfortable.
Address a keyboard however it's comfortable.

I could go on, but the theme should be evident. What starts out comfortable is not always what is most efficient, and people who adopt the most effective techniques strongly tend toward better results.

geetarman · June 20, 2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

I could go on, but the theme should be evident. What starts out comfortable is not always what is most efficient, and people who adopt the most effective techniques strongly tend toward better results.

How very true. You will see it in musicians who hang their thumbs over the fretboard. Then you will see the folks who are really fast and you will very seldom see that offending thumb.

Self taught musicians are generally the former and classically trained musicians are the latter.

When you learn, and learn from someone very skilled, you do not have any bad habits to unlearn.

It does make a difference.

Geetarman

irish52084 · June 20, 2012, 11:48 PM

My father had a tough time with his hands after a serious injury. He had lost a decent amount of grip strength in one hand and it was negatively effecting his shooting. He had to transition to a two thumbs forward grip and it took him some time to get used to, and a bit of convincing from me. After shooting with his older method and then two thumbs forward he has seen a marked improvement in his ability to shoot for longer periods of time and in controlling recoil.

It's a very solid grip when you get used to it and it works well for defensive style shooting. Like someone said earlier, get a deep, high grip and with the strong hand, then work on getting as much contact area as possible with your other hand.

comn-cents · June 20, 2012, 11:51 PM

This may help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OZfgutNufU

Sarge · June 20, 2012, 11:59 PM

...and so may this. Find something that works for you, is naturally acquired, maximizes control with the dominant hand and does not require gymnastics to change from a one-hand to two-hand grip.

Whatever that is, use it, burn it into your motor memory and stick with it.

June 20, 2012, 10:54 AM	#1
oboe Member Join Date: July 5, 2010 Posts: 83	Two hand grip Although I've been a shooter since the age of 10, I'm only recently a handgun shooter [last 2 years] for purposes of concealed carry and personal defense. I have two pistols - the M&P full size in 9mm and just recently the M&P Shield [also 9mm]. At an informal shoot, one of the instructors who also was a part of the meet up group watched me shoot and said I'd shoot better using the "thumbs forward" two-handed grip rather than the "thumb-on-thumb" grip that I've been using [she called it the "revolver grip"]. That's the second time a professional has volunteered that info. I'm not at all comfortable with thumbs forward, which I've tried before, and it's a slower way for me to get a two-handed grip from holster to presentation. Is the thumbs forward grip really all that much better?

June 20, 2012, 11:06 AM	#3
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	i was the same way at first, but then i practiced a bit more with the thumbs forward, and it actually did help me a bit. altho, making sure the gun is seated correctly in the back of your hand is more important. as is trigger finger placement. __________________ Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7 "A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."

June 20, 2012, 11:14 AM	#5
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	different instructors teach different methods. there are a number of professional shooters that recommend thumb-on-thumb while there are others that recommend thumbs forward. both are politically correct methods that keep your weak side hand planted firmly where it needs to be while keeping the weak side thumb away from the slide. if you train very hard in each method then you will more than likely come to like the thumbs forward method more and both will become as natural as the other however if you really do no feel comfortable shooting thumbs forward there is no penalty for sticking with what works. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

June 20, 2012, 11:21 AM	#7
RBid Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2012 Posts: 1,059	The very short version is that 'thumbs forward' gives more surface contact with the pistol, which means you have more control of the recoil. There are some fantastic YouTube videos to show how to do it well. I very strongly recommend transitioning to it. Once you're used to it, the results are great! Check out Travis Haley's video __________________ Currently Own: Beretta PX4 9mm, Glock 23 (Gen 4), Glock 19 (Gen 4) x2

June 20, 2012, 02:16 PM	#9
RBid Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2012 Posts: 1,059	RC20, It's not dominating practical shooting competition by being a marketing gimmick. TTF's benefits are also extremely relevant for self defense application, since fast and accurate follow up shots are crucial. Also: Grip and swing the golf club however it's comfortable. Manipulate the pool cue however it's comfortable. Pitch the baseball however it's comfortable. Address a keyboard however it's comfortable. I could go on, but the theme should be evident. What starts out comfortable is not always what is most efficient, and people who adopt the most effective techniques strongly tend toward better results. __________________ Currently Own: Beretta PX4 9mm, Glock 23 (Gen 4), Glock 19 (Gen 4) x2

June 20, 2012, 11:03 AM	#2
sgms Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2010 Location: Arizona or Ohio depending Posts: 1,021	Everybody is different and for some people it is, for other the thumb on thumb works better. The only way you can tell is to practice with the thumbs forward for a bit (at lest long enough that it isn't weird feeling just because you do not use it) then decide what you like better. With 2 different instructors making the same suggestion it might be worth your time to find out.

June 20, 2012, 11:12 AM	#4
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	My experience has been the grasp of the weapon with the strong hand ( in my case, right hand ) is instrumental in making the two thumbs ( baby bottom ) natural. The first hand to grasp the weapon should put the weapon firmly in the meat of the hand with the web of the thumb firmly under the beavertail or the underside of the top of the weapon and under the slide. Trigger finger is outside of the trigger and rests on the frame pointed forward. If you do that, it is perfectly natural to lay the opposing thumb parallel with the existing thumb and let that thumb rest lightly on the side of the frame. The fingers of the opposing hand find a natural anchor between the fingers of the strong hand. Works great for me. Geetarman

June 20, 2012, 11:17 AM	#6
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I was all about the "two thumbs up", Cooper Combat Hold when I started shooting handguns regularly, but soon noticed everyone, and I mean EVERYONE was shooting with two thumbs forward. It felt very unnatural to me at first, but now, after shooting with TTF for fifteen years, anything else feels weird, and I even hold my revolvers with a variation of the same grip. People think of the "strong hand" as doing most of the work, and so a "fist" style of grip is stronger. But if you get that thumb out of the way, the weak hand can contribute 50%, or even more, of the overall grip strength, and considerably more than a locked-down thumb that results in a tiny patch of grip for the weak hand to grasp.

June 20, 2012, 01:43 PM	#8
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I think its all a bunch of nonesense so people can claim they are experts and take money from people for it. Yes there are people new to guns that have not a clue and they may need hlep with how to hold. What should be taught then is whatever feels comfortable to the shooter. There simply is not wrong to a hold as long as the gun is steady and in the case of the semi auto you do not have parts of your hand(s) where they will get hit or sliced by the slide. Me, I shot one thumb down, one 90 degrees and my tea drinking pinky extended. I have it pattented and will be running training classes as its proven to be superior to all those other holds.

June 20, 2012, 11:48 PM	#11
irish52084 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Location: Washington, the state, not that "other" one. Posts: 514	My father had a tough time with his hands after a serious injury. He had lost a decent amount of grip strength in one hand and it was negatively effecting his shooting. He had to transition to a two thumbs forward grip and it took him some time to get used to, and a bit of convincing from me. After shooting with his older method and then two thumbs forward he has seen a marked improvement in his ability to shoot for longer periods of time and in controlling recoil. It's a very solid grip when you get used to it and it works well for defensive style shooting. Like someone said earlier, get a deep, high grip and with the strong hand, then work on getting as much contact area as possible with your other hand.

June 20, 2012, 11:51 PM	#12
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	This may help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OZfgutNufU __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

June 20, 2012, 11:59 PM	#13
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	...and so may this. Find something that works for you, is naturally acquired, maximizes control with the dominant hand and does not require gymnastics to change from a one-hand to two-hand grip. Whatever that is, use it, burn it into your motor memory and stick with it. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.