Saiga-12 Owner Opinions

[EdInk]

I was just wondering how much you liked them? I am giving SERIOUS thought to buying one, as I don't have a shotgun. I don't like pumps and do like AKs, so it seems logical.

I've heard that you can't use low-recoil ammo (if true, no big deal) and that if left loaded the top shell in the magazine will get presses flat, as anyone had this occur? Any complaints or other semi-auto shotguns (in the same price range) that you may recommend? I like the idea of magazines to feed it.

It will be mainly for fun and home defense but my primary HD gun will still probably be my XD9. Lastly, what barrel length do you prefer?

Thanks for the help.

[EdInk]

Anyone?

[bamaranger]

Hey Ed

The 2009 issue of Peterson's Publishing annual "AK" magazine, ran an entire article on the Saiga 12 , parts and accessories, impressions, and Krebs doing custom work. I think the FORTIER guy was the author.

I've got the magazine. I don't know if a copy can be snailmailed or not w/o violating copywrite laws, but I'd do it if you can't find one.

[EdInk]

I'll check into it. I really want OWNER or FORMER OWNER opinions though. Little more honest when it's your own money.

[The Great Mahoo]

Hey Ed,

I've had a 12K for a number of years now. Admittedly, I think I bought it more as a novelty based on my time playing so many FPS games as a teenager, where shotguns were always among my favorite. About 5 or 6 years ago, I happened across one at a decent price and had to snatch it up.


As a whole, I very much like the gun. Its simple, dependable, and just plain cool-looking. I've never had any problems with it, but then again, I haven't exactly used it for all that much other than blasting paper targets.

I've never had any problem with ammo in the magazines, but I don't keep the gun handy for home-defense, so I tend to not leave the magazines loaded. I could see the soft-plastic of a shell being deformed over time, but would find it a bit unlikely. I guess one could just load one-fewer rounds in the mags to lessent the tension on the spring and keep the presser down a bit.

Two things I don't like about the gun:
1. The overall length. With the AK style reciever, this gun is long. I have but an 18" barrel on mine and it is among the tallest guns in my safe, making it a bit tricky to get into and out of my particular safe. For the last 3 or 4 years, I have been half-planning one of the sporterized conversions typical of Saiga's to cut down and make the gun a bit more manueverable. This would be moving the trigger forward, adding a pistol grip and a folding or telescoping stock. Unfortunately, the parts for this runs a good bit of money, money which I just can't justify on a gun I don't use.

2. Magazine availability. My 12k came with 1 5-round mag. Trying to find other magazines has been a bit problematic, with any that I have found being very expensive. Lately, I have seen a few more mags at recent gun shows, but costs are still usually $80+ for an 8 rounder. The .410 magazines seem to have been everywhere at the last show I went to, but still few 12g mags. I just can't justify spending that much per mag.


All in all, its a nice gun, but really doesn't add much other than a wow-factor to my collection. I have another auto-loader I use for hunting, an O/U for clays, a few other shotguns for this and that. With only 1 magazine, I don't consider this a good home-def gun, so I'd opt for my 1897 trench shotgun (which holds more ammo and is readily loadable, is far more intimidating, and heavy to serve as a good truncheon.) If I could get the parts for the conversion, as well as some extra mags, at a decent price, I would certainly do both. I really like the idea of a folding-stock, tactical shotgun with a slew of detachable magazines, but that would (atleast) double the cost of the gun for me.

Depending on what you expect of it, it could be a great addition to your collection. For me, the practicality is limited compared to some other pieces in my stock. I've actually considered selling it, but I just really like the looks of it, even though it rarely comes out of my safe.

[Technosavant]

Hey Ed. You may need to give us a few more than 4 hours to post.

I have a S12 I converted to the AK style pistol grip/stock configuration.

They tend to like heavier loads- the folks who live and breathe Saigas say that the break in is best done with full power buckshot and/or slugs. I've only fired mine with 1 1/8oz target loads, and I've had a couple stoppages; mostly due to the shell going nose-on to the top of the chamber. There are some reliability tweaks and polishes that can be done.

I haven't noticed the top shell going flat; I have to have a look. Due to the nature of the design, magazine insertion on a closed bolt isn't all that easy. It's actually rather cumbersome- it's quicker than trying to fill a tube magazine shell by shell, but it isn't exactly as easy as swapping a magazine on a rifle. Mags are expensive, but not all that hard to find- places like Carolina Shooter Supply usually have them.

They're fun shotguns, I wouldn't call them the end-all be-all of scatterguns though.

[EdInk]

Do they maintain the legendary AK reliability?

[Technosavant]

Do they maintain the legendary AK reliability?

So far, mine hasn't. It has more to do with a rifle round being easier to feed than a shotgun shell. But then, I haven't fired a couple hundred rounds of slugs and buckshot through mine, and that would probably help. All my stoppages have been related to the shell not getting into the chamber properly or stovepiping on the way out.

The S12 also seems to be prone to "vodka specials;" that is, they aren't always assembled with care. Some have been seen that do not have three or four gas holes open; some have two or only one, and those just aren't going to function well unless they are fixed by somebody who knows what they're doing (a US company handles that kind of warranty work, but I forget their name).

[The Great Mahoo]

Do they maintain the legendary AK reliability?

I've had no problems with mine, but again, its not something I put hundreds or thousands of rounds through. I can't recall any failures to feed or eject, nor any to cycle.

I might have to find some time to take it out this weekend and rip through some shells to refresh my memory.....

[EdInk]

Sounds like most are pretty happy with them. Any preferences for barrel length? Also, anyone convert it to an AK style pistol grip? If so, what kind of money, am I looking at for it?

Lastly, any other semi auto shotguns that can compete for the same type of budget?

[Technosavant]

Barrel length- mine is a 19" one. Seems plenty long enough- the length of the action makes the thing pretty long, so if it's for defensive purposes, I'd go 19.

Pistol grip conversion- as I said, I've done it. Very simple- about 2 hours of real work. The price will vary based on the parts you choose- go with cheap AK grip and stock, and the price will be low. Go with expensive ones, and it can get high. I would recommend the Tromix DIY trigger guard and the Tromix modified G2 trigger group unless you have access to a welder and you know how to work it. You may want some paint or a finish of your choice, since removing the stock trigger plate will expose bare metal. If you use the G2 trigger group (single hook is what you want), and US made grip and stock, you should be fine as far as 922r goes. IIRC, the conversion ended up running me about $200 (with Duracoat).

Other semiautos that can compete in the same price range? There's not many that are directly comparable, but "tactical" variants will probably not be too far off in price.

Just one other tidbit of info: the magazines need to be fit to the gun. The stock one that comes in the box will already have had that done. Additional mags will need the tab filed down so it will lock into place- compare the fresh untouched mag to the original one to see where you need to file down the plastic.

[EdInk]

I thought you could get metal magazines.

[Technosavant]

I thought you could get metal magazines.

I've not seen them. The stock ones are plastic. Usually, so are the aftermarket ones (like Surefire). A quick check shows only one metal mag, but it's a weld it yourself deal. The polymer ones should be just fine- fitting it to the gun is a piece of cake.

[Csspecs]

I have a saiga-12 that I use for small game hunting in MI.

I've used it pretty hard and have not had a problem. Mine likes Federal promo loads from wally world, works ok with Remington and jams every round with Winchester. I've had about the same number of jams from

I like the 5 round mags that are imported by keepshooting.com (saiga forum sells them on their e-store). I've heard that the promag 12 round drums actually work ok, they run about 60-70 each. I have a MD arms 20 round coming just to screw around with, I've seen them work in person and they work pretty good.

There was a guy making some sort of kit form metal mag for the saiga-12. And Chaos was making some steel mags in the future.

I have a 8 round steel mag that I made.. Its dog ugly but works well enough for my use. I have stamp dies for the saiga 20 and depending on if chaos getting his made or not I may give the saiga 12 a try.