Ha! My employer just modified company policy to disallow firearms on the premises...

[RichM]

Here is my first post. Hi guys.

I'll start off with a hunting story - me about 20, walking down a dirt road along a salt bay with a dead duck or two in one hand and an 870 over my shoulder, held with one hand by the barrel. 3 "city" people coming the other way. At about 150 feet the guy suddenly sees me for the first time and has his wife and kid get behind him and yells - "we're people - don't shoot". I acknowledge him and move the gun and put it in the crook of my arm - pointing at the ground behind me and well away from them. The guy proceeds to keep his family behind him as I walk by and tell him that there is no danger - he and his family do a 180 and he's scared - his eyes were dialated and huge - like saucers. He was a scared man, protecting his wife and child in the only way he knew how - with his body. I wish he would have been receptive to my voice and not blinded by his irrational fear.

That is the general public who haven't owned guns and believe everything they hear on the nightly news. Guns kill people - right? That's what the media says.

That is the "boss" of the company. He is afraid of guns. He has read stories about mad employees. He feels his life could be in jeopardy.

Now here's my two cents: Please take them with a grain of salt. I don't know how old you are - some wisdom is gained by age and other is gained by making mistakes.

In hindisght, I dare say that a very fundamental rule of concealed carry was broken - NO-ONE is to know that you have a gun.

As people we tend to say too much and then wonder how so many people know so much about us. People who don't share information are seen as wierdos and stand-offish. Just how we are. I blab and my wife says absolutely nothing. I've learned a lot about keeping my mouth shut from her.

Too late to do anything about that now - you trusted your boss. Evidently you felt comfortable with him and were trying to be friendly. You now know the rules and the boundaries. Be coordial but don't trust him again - he's not your friend - he doesn't trust you. Talk about the weather and places you know up north - if you need to talk about personal stuff stick to hiking/biking and fishing or kid's Bday parties.

Check with the NRA - I do believe that some laws were passed which prohibit the empoyers from regulating what is in an employee's car and such.

I would also document the memo and that he sent it to you and not to everyone. Just in case you get laid off - then you have the basis for filing a discrimination suite. Not trying to scare you - just take the evidence and file it - don't push the issue with anyone. Appear to comply with his demand and be cooperative. This will help put him at ease with you and maybe won't affect the other workers who carry - that he doesn't know about including the VP. I fear that any pushing here will put you in the "not friendly" category with your boss and we all know how miserable that is.

Don't reveal anyone else's concealed carry to anyone else. Yes, the VP carries but it is not your tale to tell. To tell anyone make you a tattletale - you don't want that.

Some people will call this compliance and that you should stand up & fight it. You already know the end results - no guns on the property. Now is time to do damage control.

If you must carry to feel safe - get a mouse gun and make sure no-one ever knows you have it. No-one.

Sorry if I come across as harsh. I've learned a few lessons and they were painful at times. I'm a very conservative kind of guy and want what is best for everyone.

Bottom line - your boss has as much right to feel unthreatened as you do to carry. He's in the position to make the decisions tho' - that gives him more rights thru' dictating company policies. Let him know that you aren't a threat by complying with his request and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

[G-man 26]

In this economic situation? Where I work, a year ago, we had 200 employees.
After the series of layoffs, we have about 50. I would guess that maybe 5 or 7
of those "carry".

I suppose you are right, not a lot of "weight" there. If your company is a small one, and the majority of you carry, the odds are better. I am proud of Uncle Malice. He tried to help bring exposure to a "new guy" and help him settle into his new town's culture. I am sad to hear it ended up this way. I would look at my options, and if there are none, live with it. If there are options, best bet would be to explore and exploit them.

[IdahoG36]

Its concealed for a reason, no one will know you have it unless you need it.

+1. I carry everywhere that is legal, and have my CCW with me in the shop at work.
I'm just glad the owner of my shop is cool. I can walk in the shop with a gun case, and the owner will come over to see what new gun I've brought in, or which one I brought in to clean. He knows me well though, and we have been shooting many times. And I work in an auto dealership.

[armoredman]

Don't forget, the AZ parking lot law is sitting on the governors desk right now, call, e-mail and write her to sign it, it's VERY good.

[IdahoG36]

Don't forget, the AZ parking lot law is sitting on the governors desk right now, call, e-mail and write her to sign it, it's VERY good.

I believe that I saw something about this. Does this have to do with the right to store a weapon in your vehicle while it is parked in the parking lot of any business, regardless of their store policy?
If so, that is a great thing.

[dabigguns357]

I'm sorry to hear that,our company just reversed their policy to allow firearms on property if you are not there for company business,i work for walmart.the new rule stared june 1st.

[ReNtaPiG]

This topic has brought quite the controversy here to Florida when it was instituted in July of 2008. It even caused the loss of a Security Officer's job at Disney, who argued they(Disney) were exempt from the law sighting an explosives license and turns out Disney was right.

The fear of firearms will never dissipate as ignorance and lack of education are more common place today then actual common sense. I'm fortunate enough to have a job that carrying a firearm is in my job description, but I'm against any company policy(ies) denying a law-abiding CCW holder the right to carry in places not deemed "off limits" by the law itself. (ie. schools, gov't bldgs, bars, pro sporting events, etc.)

[ReNtaPiG]

You could always take a play from the left-wing Union book of dirty tricks. All of you (ccw holders) go in and offer them the opportunity to change it back before you all find other jobs.

LMAO!! Those tricks always back fire, and besides we're talking about a guy that changed a company policy to ban guns. The same type person that would LOVE to get rid of ALL the "carriers" in said company. He'll even roll out the red carpet on everyone's exit from the building.

[TENWHEELER]

I work for an employer who has enforced the policy of no weapons on company property.

THe only issue with this policy is that the company provided parking spaces are outside the fenced in yard. There are guards that restrict access to the plant but the parking lot is wide open for street access.

My understanding is that a policy like this with the parking lot being open access to anyone has been beaten in court but I do not have that ruling in front of me.

[Double Naught Spy]

Update: After speaking with the boss(who forwarded me a copy of the revised policy), I asked if there was a reason why it was sent directly to me.

He told me that I was the only one "that he knew of" who had a weapon on the premises.

So clearly, my mistake was not that I had it; but rather that I offered to take him to the range and let him use mine, and educate him on the use of firearms and informing him of my carry permit.

So much for opening my mouth!!

Your mistake was NOT that you offered to take your boss to the range. Your mistake was that you apparently told him that you carried on property.

[Jkwas]

In Florida, they can't stop you from keeping a firearm in your car on company property as long as you have a CCW. Our company has a "No weapons allowed on company property" policy. I've instructed my wife, if anything happens to me because I was unable to defend myself, she is to sue the living daylights out of my employer.

[Magyar]

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you!" Go with his directive and slowly educate him to your way of thinking. Concealing on the sly will certainly get your fired. I know how co-workers are: he'll find out....

[Uncle Malice]

As for carrying in my car, that's not really an issue, here. We are a pretty small company - currently down to about 20 people, from about 50 at this time last year. We are in a community type office building. I guess I'm not sure what you call it, but several companies in one building so the parking lot is community and not governed by my employer.

I'm not carrying inside of the building, but you can be sure that my weapon is in my car. Even if the parking lot was their property, they have no right to search inside of it.

Anyways, the latest developments are that my direct supervisor(not the boss we are talking about) who I frequently go to the range with said he was going to talk to the boss. On the days that we plan on going to the range, he always brings in his case with his weapon in it. He said there's no way he's going to leave his gun out in the car at 115*F. We'll see how far that gets us. Perhaps we can get it revised to say that there can not be a loaded firearm on company property.

[Colt1911forever]

Freedom is a two way door. It swings both ways. You should have the right to carry but an employer or property owner has every right to restrict your use or carry of a weapon on their property.

I have seen this discussion time and time again on the boards. People only see one side. There is a significant property rights issue at play here IMHO. I love how people think their right to carry trumps an individual or business property rights. It is simply a case of competing rights and you will loose. IMHO you should.

Property rights trumps your right to carry everytime IMHO.

My business is like my home. Within reason I am king of the castle. My world my rules.

If you don't like the policy work to change it. If you cannot change it then get a new job. It is that simply.

I've instructed my wife, if anything happens to me because I was unable to defend myself, she is to sue the living daylights out of my employer.

Statements like this are simply not helping anyone. This will not hold up. They do not have to grant you right to carry. They have to provide a safe work environment within "reasonable parameters". Your wife can sue all she wants most likely she will loose.

[Alleykat]

CWPinSC:

Unless the policy is company-wide, for every employee, it's not legal.

You sure about that? How about posting your source?

[Magyar]

Colt1911FE, you hit it real good. I see so many of these testosterone-laced diatribes that might make you feel good saying it; but are sheer nonsense.
I worked many years in a public school environment that at times were simply gang-infested, however a Gun Free Zone. You had to use what was between your ears when thinking about survival. Some employees said "Concealed means concealed", or "My life is more important than school policy". A few were caught: FIRED and prosecuted....Obey the law or work to change it...

[brickeyee]

Unless the policy is company-wide, for every employee, it's not legal.

Last time I looked carrying a weapon did not place you in a 'protected class.'

[azredhawk44]

Magyar: Gun Free Zones are exactly why no school district in the country is able to retain my services.

I've been in FOUR actual school lockdowns in my 5 years working for a school district.

I'll keep working private sector from now on, where my right to live is respected.

GFZ's really irk me when the whole property rights vs gun rights issue comes up. The penalty for trespassing on an employer's property with a firearm is merely termination. The penalty for trespassing on a GOVERNMENT employer's property is jail time. The double standard is insulting.

And, just for the record, I believe that if a particular place of employment is:
1. Incorporated;
and
2. Open to the public;

There is no right to discriminate against employees or customers based on whether they are armed or not.

[Doc Intrepid]

RichM --

Nice first post.

+1

Doc

[Uncle Malice]

Originally Posted by Colt1911forever

Freedom is a two way door. It swings both ways. You should have the right to carry but an employer or property owner has every right to restrict your use or carry of a weapon on their property.

I have seen this discussion time and time again on the boards. People only see one side. There is a significant property rights issue at play here IMHO. I love how people think their right to carry trumps an individual or business property rights. It is simply a case of competing rights and you will loose. IMHO you should.

Property rights trumps your right to carry every time IMHO.

I hope this isn't directed at me. I am well aware of the businesses right to say they do not want weapons on the premises. I was simply ranting because it's almost comical that other employees have been carrying for over a decade and this new guy comes in from Wisconsin(he's been here for about a month) and suddenly gets a rule put into place about not carrying.

The owners daughter who is also on the sales team carries in her purse. I'm not sure if he's aware of that, but I'm sure that she will raise a stink when she finds out as well.

Anyways, I don't disagree with their right to implement the rule, and I am following the rule, doesn't mean I have to like the rule.

[fisherman66]

Unless the policy is company-wide, for every employee, it's not legal.
You sure about that? How about posting your source?

It would be illegal to discriminate against an employee on that basis, but a bank could easily have a no weapons policy with an exemption for a security guard or sum such scenario. It would need to be part of a job description or written policy to have exceptions, and those could be subject to court test.

Sorry, I'm too lazy to hunt for source. As part of an HR dept, if fairly confident in my statement.

[Colt1911forever]

And, just for the record, I believe that if a particular place of employment is:
1. Incorporated;
and
2. Open to the public;

There is no right to discriminate against employees or customers based on whether they are armed or not.

You can believe anything you want. I believe in little green men from outer space built the pyramids but that does not make it true.

Open to the public has nothing to do with it. Property owners have the right to control who is and who is not armed on their property. Sorry but it is more entrenched and established right. One that is on sounder footing than the right to carry.

Believing something does not make it so.

If you believe that work for it in a real and meaningful manner but in the end you will not win that battle.

[Colt1911forever]

No Uncle my initial reply was to all the people telling you to carry anyway. People are very hypocritical when it comes to rights. They want all of their rights to be protected and scream bloddy murder when they percieve someone is trying to restrict them but in the same breathe they have no problem trampling the rights of others. :barf:

[brickeyee]

It would be illegal to discriminate against an employee on that basis,

Not a protected class.

You can discriminate on anything that is not covered in the protected classes.

[fisherman66]

Not a protected class.

You can discriminate on anything that is not covered in the protected classes.

Not true...even in a right to work state (I'm tempted to give a practical example; but restraint must be the better part of valor unless it were to become public). Of course a court would make the final ruling as this is a civil matter.

Protected class is an EEOC issue. Policies and procedures not necessarily so.