.30/180 RN.......wow!

bamaranger · February 14, 2023, 12:08 AM

My great Uncle, quite a character in his own right, always claimed that the '06 with a 180 gr RN, was the "best deer killer in the woods". This after shooting a Rem Model 14 pump in .35Rem/200 for many years.

I followed the family mantra as a kid, but eventually moved away from the big RN to shoot 150 spitzers (PSP) in most of my .30 cal rifles for deer. They seemed to kick less, as a loose rule were more accurate, especially in a 1:12 twisted .308 M88 Win, and had a flatter trajectory for longer shots on ROW and cutover, and killed whitetails just as dead. In recent years, I've shot rather modest cartridges at whitetails, .243, 7.62x39mm and I think interestingly .44 mag from a carbine.

When I acquired a very handsome Mark X Mannlicher stocked '06, (bought largely for its looks) I found that that it preferred heavy bullets. I set the Mark X up with 180gr RN running at 2500 fps, hotter loads were loud from the 20" carbine, and seemed to kick miserably for some reason. I viewed the Mark X as a woods rifle and the lower velocity did not bother me.

The last weekend of the AL season, I took a 2-1//2 yr old 5 pt at about 100 yds, quartering away with the Mark X. It'd been awhile since I'd taken a deer with a .30, even if it wasn't all-up velocity wise. Wounding effect was, shall we say, more than impressive!

Harry, ........you weren't wrong.

taylorce1 · February 14, 2023, 07:35 AM

Old bullet tech works as well as it ever did, congrats on the deer.

riverratt · February 14, 2023, 08:54 AM

When hunting in the thick public woods here in KY I often resort to the ol' 180gr RN Sierra Pro-Hunter over a heathy dose of IMR 4350. Nothing seems to put em down quite as consistently as that combination out of my '06. It'll keep about a 1.25" group at 100, bucks the brush much better than a lighter splitzer and that loading has the exact POI as my 165gr hpbt Gameking loaded over IMR 4064 in my gun. This is great because I'll take both rounds with me and chamber the RN if I hunt the thick woods and I'll chamber the HPBT if I'm in more open woods or on a field where I expect a longer shot.

Paul B. · February 15, 2023, 05:09 PM

I've used that Sierra 180 gr. round nose bullet in the .308 Win. and 30=06. Definitely a serious killer of deer. Another favorite bullet, especially in a Ruger M77 RSI is the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core spitzer flat base bullet, mainly because that is the only bullet that shoots well in that rifle. Groups average only about 1.50" with a few rare 1.25" that sneak in every once in a while. Good enough to hunt anyway.
Paul B.

Scorch · February 15, 2023, 05:36 PM

Nobody ever said they won't kill. They just don't fly as well as pointy bullets.

Quote:

I acquired a very handsome Mark X Mannlicher stocked '06, (bought largely for its looks)

Yes, one of the prettiest rifles of the late 70s-early 80s.

GeauxTide · February 15, 2023, 10:52 PM

I came on a sale stock of 165 Grand Slams and tried them at 2500 in my 308. 1/2" in and out on high chest shot at 127 measured. Literally rolled the doe with heart, lungs, and liver jellified. I've got a stock of 165 Corelokts that I'm gonna try next year. Amazing what happens under 3000fps.

**44 AMP** · February 16, 2023, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Nobody ever said they won't kill. They just don't fly as well as pointy bullets.

My experience is that the RNs fly just as well as pointy bullets, its entirely dependent on the rifle launching them.

They do drop more at longer ranges, but they fly just fine.

Paul B. · February 16, 2023, 05:05 PM

The late John Taylor in his book "AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTIDGES" opined that for most non-dangerous big game he liked round nosed bullets with a "big blue nose". I've been playing with the 7x57 Mauser round a lot lately and when it comes to "big blue noses" the old discontinued Winchester 175 gr. bullet satisfies that very nicely. The 175 gr. Federal doesn't fare as well and frankly, I can't comment on the Remington because I've never seen any, at least not around here. On bullets for reloading, I like the 170 gr. Sierra better than Hornady's 175 gr. bullet but apparently neither are available any more. The Sierras have been gone for years and Hornady's number 10 manual shows them as discontinued.

A pox on them all. I'm lucky enough to have a small supply of the 170 gr. Sierras so I'll see what I can do with them. I've been playing with the 7x57 in a modern rifle using 7-08 load data and results have been very promising. It makes the 7x57 what it should have been in the first place.
Paul B.

44caliberkid · February 17, 2023, 01:32 PM

The most popular cartridge in Alaska is the 30-06, and I would wager the 180 gr. RN is probably the most popular ammunition for that cartridge.

bamaranger · February 20, 2023, 02:59 AM

'll go out on a limb here and offer that most of us, say what.....90%(?) could likely get by with the old RN heavy bullets for our whitetail shooting and never be at a disadvantage. My whitetail rifle kill count is not all that high compared to many others..... I do a lot of bowhunting. But I can count on one hand the whitetails I have taken at over 100 yds with a rifle, and two of them were this year.

I suspect my experience is the norm for most of us this on this side of the country. Sure, I like to experiment, shoot different projectiles, use a variety of rifles and cartridges, but the truth is my shots are close as a rule. We likely do not need the flatter trajectory offered by the pointed and boat tailed bullets most of the time.

The 5 pt this year had a devastating wound just behind the shoulder blades. It still managed to run 50-60 yds, but a blind man could have followed the blood trail. There was a distinct difference in the wounding appearance when compared to the more modest calibers I've been shooting in recent years. Interestingly, the result,... a dead deer after a brief death sprint, was the same regardless of cartridge.

The Mark X, set up with it's vertically split rings and fixed 6x scope and of course that good looking Mannlicher stock, is a handsome thing. I'd not hunted it in several seasons and it was a delight to behold on stand and delivered accordingly when the time came. I sort of wish it were in a more Euro/metric caliber, I read they made them in 7x57. But a pal who has hunted in Europe a good bit says the old US '06 is popular over there, and components are certainly widely available ( well sort of these days

) and I cannot gripe about how mine shoots, it has been a tack driver, especially with heavy slugs 180-200.

**44 AMP** · February 20, 2023, 01:16 PM

Quote:

I sort of wish it were in a more Euro/metric caliber,

Just think of it as the 7.62x63mm ...

jmr40 · February 21, 2023, 04:31 PM

Quote:

My experience is that the RNs fly just as well as pointy bullets, its entirely dependent on the rifle launching them.

They do drop more at longer ranges, but they fly just fine.

It isn't just trajectory. Impact velocity matters too, and it doesn't have to be long range.

One of the better 180 gr pointed bullets with a high BC fired from a 30-06 at 2800 fps will impact game with more velocity at any range past 75 yards than a 180 gr RN fired from a 300 WM at 3000 fps. Not many would consider 75 yards long range. The 300 WM still shoots flatter BTW. At least out to any reasonable hunting range.

The same high BC 180 gr bullet fired from a 308 at 2600 fps surpasses 300 WM 180 gr RN bullets at any range beyond 175 yards.

If you compare an old school 180 gr pointed bullet like the Nosler Partition or a Remington Corelokt to a modern high BC 180 gr bullet the advantage isn't as dramatic. But is enough that a lot of shooters are choosing cartridges like 308, 7-08, and 6.5CM over traditional cartridges like 30-06, 270 and the magnums.

RN bullets expand more reliably at lower speeds than pointed bullets. And since they will be impacting slower it is a good thing. They also overexpand if pushed too hard.

Some people are surprised to find old school tech still works. As long as it is used at speeds where it is designed to work, I'm not at all surprised. But I also don't buy that they work better. Modern pointed bullets need more speed to expand, but since they impact faster at almost all ranges that isn't hard to do.

**44 AMP** · February 21, 2023, 08:50 PM

Quote:

They also overexpand if pushed too hard.

Everything overexpands if pushed too hard.

That's how bullets work, and how we determine what speed "too hard" is.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · March 2, 2023, 05:13 PM

Started hunting big game with a 1953 marlin 336 S-C model (16" ) barrel 30-30. Tired of shooting MN big deer twice w/336 I then migrated to a new 1968 made rem 742 carbine 30-06. Shot two boxs of ammo thru that muzzle flashing noise maker and had to move up to Rem 700 Mountain rifle or go deaf >700 blued steel, walnut stocked, skinny (barrel about the same diameter as its cartridge brass ) cal 270 win. Top it with a Leupold Vari X 3 when I got the chance. Have had no need to look around for something different to shoot since. (been Twenty plus years I've had the Skinny twins.) 25-06 mtn too.

bacardisteve · March 3, 2023, 07:55 PM

When I was 15 I saved my pennies from my job at the local mom & pop groceries store and bought a brand new savage 111G in 30-06. That rifle loved 180gr corelokt and killed quite a few whitetail in the eastern hardwoods.

bamaranger · March 4, 2023, 01:15 AM

THE gun for deer when I was a kid in those days was a Rem 760 carbine in '06. In PA, semi centerfires for deer were prohibited, and still are I read. I never did acquire a carbine pump. But I was in the market for one in .308, 'till I left PA.

But, note in my original post, that my Mark X with it's 20" tube was indeed LOUD flashy and obnoxious when loaded all up. That is why I loaded it to about 3/4 power, about .300 Savage level. The Rem carbine pumps had 18.5" tubes as I recall. Those short tubes likely turned factory '06 ammo into .300 Savage as well.

Still, they were enormously popular and marked you as a serious deer guy back in the day. The Bennoits up in Maine, the deer trackers, were Rem pump carbine fans.

February 14, 2023, 12:08 AM	#1
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	.30/180 RN.......wow! My great Uncle, quite a character in his own right, always claimed that the '06 with a 180 gr RN, was the "best deer killer in the woods". This after shooting a Rem Model 14 pump in .35Rem/200 for many years. I followed the family mantra as a kid, but eventually moved away from the big RN to shoot 150 spitzers (PSP) in most of my .30 cal rifles for deer. They seemed to kick less, as a loose rule were more accurate, especially in a 1:12 twisted .308 M88 Win, and had a flatter trajectory for longer shots on ROW and cutover, and killed whitetails just as dead. In recent years, I've shot rather modest cartridges at whitetails, .243, 7.62x39mm and I think interestingly .44 mag from a carbine. When I acquired a very handsome Mark X Mannlicher stocked '06, (bought largely for its looks) I found that that it preferred heavy bullets. I set the Mark X up with 180gr RN running at 2500 fps, hotter loads were loud from the 20" carbine, and seemed to kick miserably for some reason. I viewed the Mark X as a woods rifle and the lower velocity did not bother me. The last weekend of the AL season, I took a 2-1//2 yr old 5 pt at about 100 yds, quartering away with the Mark X. It'd been awhile since I'd taken a deer with a .30, even if it wasn't all-up velocity wise. Wounding effect was, shall we say, more than impressive! Harry, ........you weren't wrong.

February 14, 2023, 07:35 AM	#2
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	Old bullet tech works as well as it ever did, congrats on the deer. __________________ NRA Life Member

February 15, 2023, 05:09 PM	#4
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	I've used that Sierra 180 gr. round nose bullet in the .308 Win. and 30=06. Definitely a serious killer of deer. Another favorite bullet, especially in a Ruger M77 RSI is the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core spitzer flat base bullet, mainly because that is the only bullet that shoots well in that rifle. Groups average only about 1.50" with a few rare 1.25" that sneak in every once in a while. Good enough to hunt anyway. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

February 15, 2023, 10:52 PM	#6
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	Congrats I came on a sale stock of 165 Grand Slams and tried them at 2500 in my 308. 1/2" in and out on high chest shot at 127 measured. Literally rolled the doe with heart, lungs, and liver jellified. I've got a stock of 165 Corelokts that I'm gonna try next year. Amazing what happens under 3000fps. __________________ Reloading For: 223R, 243W, 6.5 GR, 6.5 CM, 260R, 6.5-06, 280R, 7mmRM, 300HAM'R, 308W, 30-06, 338-06, 9mm, 357M, 41M, 44SPL, 44M, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 450BM.

February 16, 2023, 05:05 PM	#8
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	The late John Taylor in his book "AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTIDGES" opined that for most non-dangerous big game he liked round nosed bullets with a "big blue nose". I've been playing with the 7x57 Mauser round a lot lately and when it comes to "big blue noses" the old discontinued Winchester 175 gr. bullet satisfies that very nicely. The 175 gr. Federal doesn't fare as well and frankly, I can't comment on the Remington because I've never seen any, at least not around here. On bullets for reloading, I like the 170 gr. Sierra better than Hornady's 175 gr. bullet but apparently neither are available any more. The Sierras have been gone for years and Hornady's number 10 manual shows them as discontinued. A pox on them all. I'm lucky enough to have a small supply of the 170 gr. Sierras so I'll see what I can do with them. I've been playing with the 7x57 in a modern rifle using 7-08 load data and results have been very promising. It makes the 7x57 what it should have been in the first place. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION! Last edited by Paul B.; February 20, 2023 at 03:00 PM.

February 14, 2023, 08:54 AM	#3
riverratt Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2014 Posts: 314	When hunting in the thick public woods here in KY I often resort to the ol' 180gr RN Sierra Pro-Hunter over a heathy dose of IMR 4350. Nothing seems to put em down quite as consistently as that combination out of my '06. It'll keep about a 1.25" group at 100, bucks the brush much better than a lighter splitzer and that loading has the exact POI as my 165gr hpbt Gameking loaded over IMR 4064 in my gun. This is great because I'll take both rounds with me and chamber the RN if I hunt the thick woods and I'll chamber the HPBT if I'm in more open woods or on a field where I expect a longer shot.

February 17, 2023, 01:32 PM	#9
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,098	The most popular cartridge in Alaska is the 30-06, and I would wager the 180 gr. RN is probably the most popular ammunition for that cartridge.

February 20, 2023, 02:59 AM	#10
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	out on a limb 'll go out on a limb here and offer that most of us, say what.....90%(?) could likely get by with the old RN heavy bullets for our whitetail shooting and never be at a disadvantage. My whitetail rifle kill count is not all that high compared to many others..... I do a lot of bowhunting. But I can count on one hand the whitetails I have taken at over 100 yds with a rifle, and two of them were this year. I suspect my experience is the norm for most of us this on this side of the country. Sure, I like to experiment, shoot different projectiles, use a variety of rifles and cartridges, but the truth is my shots are close as a rule. We likely do not need the flatter trajectory offered by the pointed and boat tailed bullets most of the time. The 5 pt this year had a devastating wound just behind the shoulder blades. It still managed to run 50-60 yds, but a blind man could have followed the blood trail. There was a distinct difference in the wounding appearance when compared to the more modest calibers I've been shooting in recent years. Interestingly, the result,... a dead deer after a brief death sprint, was the same regardless of cartridge. The Mark X, set up with it's vertically split rings and fixed 6x scope and of course that good looking Mannlicher stock, is a handsome thing. I'd not hunted it in several seasons and it was a delight to behold on stand and delivered accordingly when the time came. I sort of wish it were in a more Euro/metric caliber, I read they made them in 7x57. But a pal who has hunted in Europe a good bit says the old US '06 is popular over there, and components are certainly widely available ( well sort of these days ) and I cannot gripe about how mine shoots, it has been a tack driver, especially with heavy slugs 180-200.

March 2, 2023, 05:13 PM	#14
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Started hunting big game with a 1953 marlin 336 S-C model (16" ) barrel 30-30. Tired of shooting MN big deer twice w/336 I then migrated to a new 1968 made rem 742 carbine 30-06. Shot two boxs of ammo thru that muzzle flashing noise maker and had to move up to Rem 700 Mountain rifle or go deaf >700 blued steel, walnut stocked, skinny (barrel about the same diameter as its cartridge brass ) cal 270 win. Top it with a Leupold Vari X 3 when I got the chance. Have had no need to look around for something different to shoot since. (been Twenty plus years I've had the Skinny twins.) 25-06 mtn too.

March 3, 2023, 07:55 PM	#15
bacardisteve Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Location: West virginia Posts: 653	When I was 15 I saved my pennies from my job at the local mom & pop groceries store and bought a brand new savage 111G in 30-06. That rifle loved 180gr corelokt and killed quite a few whitetail in the eastern hardwoods. __________________ Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF

March 4, 2023, 01:15 AM	#16
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	carbine deafness THE gun for deer when I was a kid in those days was a Rem 760 carbine in '06. In PA, semi centerfires for deer were prohibited, and still are I read. I never did acquire a carbine pump. But I was in the market for one in .308, 'till I left PA. But, note in my original post, that my Mark X with it's 20" tube was indeed LOUD flashy and obnoxious when loaded all up. That is why I loaded it to about 3/4 power, about .300 Savage level. The Rem carbine pumps had 18.5" tubes as I recall. Those short tubes likely turned factory '06 ammo into .300 Savage as well. Still, they were enormously popular and marked you as a serious deer guy back in the day. The Bennoits up in Maine, the deer trackers, were Rem pump carbine fans.