Will this work to stop killing with guns?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by cdoc42

But the main thrust is focused on convictions with the use of a gun not principally errorneous convictions. If there is a gun captured on the person or by cameras, that doesn't get more years in prison as punishment. That's where the death penalty comes in.

I was going to stay out of this, but now I can't.

The problem with many laws, and especially feel-good laws, is that they are written to address what some special interest (person or group) sees as a problem, and the resulting "solution" fails to account for other situations that may overlap but not deserve the draconian measures proposed by the law.

So, you want possessing (not using) a gun during the commission of a felony to require an automatic death sentence.

A good many years ago a young woman who was a teller at the branch of my bank where I usually go to make deposits or whatever was convicted of embezzling money from the bank. That's a felony.

But embezzlement isn't a violent crime. If she happened to have had a self-defense handgun on her person when committing any of her several acts of embezzlement ... your proposal would result in her execution.

I used to be a proponent of the death penalty. Since reading so many stories about people being exonerated 10, 15, 20, even 50 years later, I can no longer support the death penalty except in a very few situations, such as where a killer is stopped at the scene, in the act, and there is ZERO question as to who the killer is. Once we get to situations where the police investigate and the trial is based on evidence (often circumstantial), I'm out.

Decades ago there was a case of a young woman who was murdered in a downtown parking garage in the city near where I live. The police almost immediately named (publicly) a suspect. They hounded and harassed this suspect, and basically ruined his life. They arrested him, and he was acquitted. The police continued to suggest that he was the killer.

29 years later, the real killer was identified by DNA evidence and was convicted. The police, of course, took full credit for their unwavering commitment to solving the case -- despite having wasted literally years chasing the wrong suspects (there was another wrong suspect, too) even though there was no real evidence to connect them to the crime.

And then there was Richard Jewell ...

[44 AMP]

The downside to being the Red Queen is that once you say "off with their heads!", saying "on with their heads" simply does not work.

[cdoc42]

@Aguila:
Originally Posted by cdoc42
But the main thrust is focused on convictions with the use of a gun not principally errorneous convictions.

This is not the same as you inferred: "So, you want possessing (not using) a gun during the commission of a felony to require an automatic death sentence.

[cdoc42]

BTW, in reference to my post #45 when I directed attention to the giffords organization that planned to address the "core" reasons for gun killing, absent guns, this was a response I received from a close friend who is a life-long (80 years) Philadelphia resident who comments about a similar plan in Philadelphia:

"The neighborhood’s in the city are like shooting galleries. 500 still killed each of those 2 years and twice as many shootings that didn’t result in death. 85 % of those were victims of black on black crime. The one who should be shot is DA Krasner who said anyone caught illegally carrying a gun will not be prosecuted if they didn’t commit a crime with that gun. This isn’t exactly the recipe for getting guns off the street. The police commissioner said @$%$#. But Krasner was re-elected in a landslide.Because of this I think the Philly Project unfortunately will have very limited success. "

[berettaprofessor]

Believe it or not, it was Rush Limbaugh who provided a convincing argument against the death penalty that changed my outlook. In one of his books there's a chapter devoted to the discussion. And his reason had nothing to do with the crime or the charged individual; it was what making the decision to kill meant for our society and for the souls of those who had to make the decision. Which falls right in line with our unexcusable juxtaposition with other countries that still have death penalties..China, Iran, Egypt, Iraq.....

My real concern, back to the OP, with this legislation, is a) I like mail-order options for ammo, and b) that "bulk purchases" term. Are two cartridges a bulk purchase? If not now, will they be in the future?

[Big Wes]

Make the punishment be exactly like the crime they did, and there would be less crime. they shoot and kill someone, they should have the exact same thing done to them. Stab someone to death, they to should go out in the same manner. etc etc That way just before they go, they'll know exactly how it was for their victim. "an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth" Also no long terms in jail one year max to fight the charges. I'm tired of feeding, giving medical attention, etc to them. If they're guilty on the spot no doubt about them doing the crime. The should be removed from the face of the earth immediately. I believe my theory would curtail a lot of brutal crimes.

[dogtown tom]

Big Wes Make the punishment be exactly like the crime they did, and there would be less crime.

Fear of punishment has never been a deterrent to crime.

they shoot and kill someone, they should have the exact same thing done to them. Stab someone to death, they to should go out in the same manner. etc etc That way just before they go, they'll know exactly how it was for their victim.

You would enjoy living in a Third World country more than this one. The founders of this country understood cruel and unusual punishment even if you do not.

"an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth"

Leaves everyone blind and in need of a dentist.

Also no long terms in jail one year max to fight the charges.

And then what? Let him out?
'Cause the accused is innocent until proven guilty.
I don't think that's the result you envisioned. Our Constitution gives the accused the right to a speedy trial. The time the accused is sitting in jail may not be his fault, but the state.

Delays in trials aren't necessarily the fault of the defense, but the prosecution and crowded court dockets.

I'm tired of feeding, giving medical attention, etc to them.

Then eliminate prisons and execute those convicted of any crime?
If you don't want prisoners being fed or receive medical attention because its exhausting, then what is your alternative?
Again, the Third World is where you should be because that's Third World level thinking.

If they're guilty on the spot no doubt about them doing the crime.

Yeah. Forget the Constitution. Let the arresting officer find the accused guilty and immediately carry out punishment on the spot. That would never be abused.

The should be removed from the face of the earth immediately. I believe my theory would curtail a lot of brutal crimes.

Your theory didn't work in the Middle Ages, wouldn't work now.

[44 AMP]

Your theory didn't work in the Middle Ages, wouldn't work now.

It worked in the Middle Ages, it just didn't work WELL for the innocent.

And, just for conversation, how does an eye for an eye work when the crime is theft, and the criminal doesn't have anything to be taken from them???
And then, there rape to consider.... Who's going to administer THAT "equal punishment"?? Not me!

I would also point out that in the days of our Founders, execution was not a "cruel and unusual punishment", provided it was not done by "unusual" means. Hanging, and death by firing squad were done, and not considered "cruel or unusual".

Being hung in a cage so you starved to death in public view, or being burned at the stake generally were consider "cruel and unusual" by the time of our Republic's founding. A couple hundred years before that, in Europe, they weren't. Today we have even more different points of view.

Clearly the system isn't being worked so that people are generally happy with the results, but there's got to be something short of "kill them all, let God sort them out" or we're headed for worse than what we have now, IMHO.

[Recycled bullet]

Have any of y'all seen the movie Judge Dredd or Demolition Man??

I am glad neither of those stories is my reality here where I live in Virginia.

[44 AMP]

Neither of those movies are anyone's reality....YET...that's why they're called science FICTION....