Policeman in trouble

[BouncerDan]

I got a question and need some advice. Alot of you cops out there I am sure can give me some great feedback.

You are driving down the road when you see two cars stopped. One of them has your typical police lightbar turned on so you don't think anything of it. However when you come closer you see that the officer and the BG are in a pitch battle. What do you do? Do you stop your car and draw your weapon on the BG or attempt to stop the BG another way. Or do you just call 911 and keep driving?

Thanks for your help clearing this up

[pickpocket]

What kind of person would drive past? It's going to take a few minutes for a 911 call to manifest into cops on site... and scraps with officers on the side of the road don't last that long.

What you do is up to you, no one can make these kinds of decisions for you. Me? I'd stop. But that's me.

[BillCA]

There are options besides drawing your weapon.

First of all, it's nice to know some folks out there think of stopping to help and officer in trouble. But also consider what kind of grief you could be getting into as well. What you perceive as a "battle" may be nothing more than someone trying to stay out of handcuffs and not actually hurt the cop (rare, but it happens). It could also be someone who is grief-striken by the loss of a family member or a despondent person that the cop is trying to restrain from wandering off into traffic.

Don't just charge in. Take a few moments to look around. Look at the "BG's" car. Are there others inside? Children? Family? Gang members? What's the situtation? Is the cop still on his feet scuffling with the guy? Are they wrestling on the ground? Most importantly -- where are the "BG's" hands?

Do NOT pull your weapon unless you absolutely need to do so. Should the cop suddenly see another non-uniformed person with a gun he may come to the wrong conclusion and shoot the wrong person.

If the officer is still on his feet holler to him "Do you need some help, officer?" If he tells you to get back -- then get back. If he yells "Hell yes!" then give him a hand. Sometimes the fight stops when numbers are against 'em.

If it's obvious that the BG is groping for the cop's gun, move in as close as you feel comfortable to make a shot and yell for the person to get on the ground. Expect to repeat that about 3 times before he hears you and recognizes it. If the BG looks like he's going to get the gun, do what you think needs to be done to prevent it.

[Abby]

I'm not a cop. And I don't play one on TV. But I'd stop, because if I didn't and saw a dead officer on the news later, I wouldn't be able to sleep.

I don't normally see it as ANY of my business to get involved in cop work - they don't need my help chasing people, I don't need to pull over when the highway patrol is writing tickets and offer to help.

But if it looked like I might be the difference between an officer going home at the end of his/her shift or not - yeah.

[jknight8907]

Hmm, interesting situation. If I'm understanding you right, your basically talking about a shootout on the side of the road, right? Most likely the police officer has called for backup via radio.

You could always go Dukes of Hazzard style and try to run the perp over....

[oldbillthundercheif]

I would stop, but would first ask the cop if he needed some help before I even walked up to them. It seems like he could mistake you for a bad feller trying to help the miscreant. That could lead to being sprayed with the burn-juice or worse and I hate that stuff!

[bclark1]

You could always go Dukes of Hazzard style and try to run the perp over....

hahahaha!

[ITEOTWAWKI]

I'd stop and shout if he needs help. He may take it or he may simply tell you to get back (in which case get way back, the last thing he wants to be worrying about is who you intend to back up, which he WILL be worrying about). If it was someone obviously with the upper hand I might be inclined to charge them with the intent of ripping the bg off and giving the officer a chance to regain control but the details of the situation should dictate your response. Be careful. That's tantamount to playing with fire. (Moreso if you're bringing a gun to the show)

[Trip20]

I'd stop and offer assistance with out hesitation. I'm sure the officer would do the same for me.

The officer can accept your offer of help, he can tell you he's fine but to call 911, or he can tell you to scram.

Just don't pull up like Barney Fife thinkin' your going to kick some rear end.

"Now men, I have just one thing to say, this isn't gonna be kid's stuff and you'll be on your own and there will be no mollycoddling." -- Barney Fife

[Blackwater OPS]

+1 for asking. Personally, I would rather get control of the situation myself, and knowing back up was on the way I would ask the citizen to just stay out of the way. I would not want to be responsible for the citizen getting killed because I screwed up.

[GUNSMOKE45441]

I lived in a remote area of Oregon, I heard an officer stop a pickup with 5 people in it, on my scanner, He called for backup, but the dispatcher couldn't copy him because of his location.
I called 911, gave them the officers location(close to my road) told them what was going on, and that I was going to help him until backup got there.
When I pulled up he was apprehensive until I told him I was on his side and backup was coming.
After it was over, he said "Boy was I glad to see you, Thanks"

[Tim R]

I've been in a couple of scrapes....no gun involved other than the one in my holster and was glad when a citizen asked if I needed help. The officer will tell you yes or go away.

[threegun]

I would definitely help. These type scenarios are hard to figure out in advance given all the variables possible. A couple of things are pretty much a given in my mind. If the bad guy was going for the officers gun I would get the correct angle and shoot at point blank range (if my commands aren't effective upon approach). I'm not going to fight only to have the bad guy get the officers gun and kill us both. In the event the officer was incapacitated I'm drawing my hog leg. If a trained officer was beaten down why should I think I will be better?

If it was just a fight and the officer was still fighting ok, I would put a choke hold on the bad guy that would make Ken Shamrock proud LOL.

[cochise]

It happened to me. the officer was in a scuffle, suspect fled, and two cars were left vacant. I slowed down, called 911, watched, and within 5 minutes 4 squad cars were there.

[dfaugh]

I would definitely stop, and assess the situation, while obeying whatever the cop has to say. He might say to "back off", call 911 (if he hasn't had the opportunity to call for backup), or to help restrain the BG. I any case the cop is "in control" and in charge.

Now, should the cop become incapacitated, or worse somehow get shot, well then the BG would have to deal with me. I wouldn't/couldn't allow the dirtbag to escape, If I could possible stop him.

[threegun]

Kinda reminds me of the citizen who helped the officer getting his head beaten in by a crazy man. The citizen heard the cry for help grabbed his 45 and ordered the bad guy to stop. The bad guy refused and the citizen put several rounds into his torso. When that failed to stop the bad guy the citizen made his head into a canoe.

[Ben Shepherd]

I'd stop. But the phrase would be very specific:

"Officer, do you need help?!" I'd make darn sure the officer knew WHO I was offereing to assist.

The officers response to this dictates my next move.

[brj]

I think i would be inclined to roll on by, especially if the family was with me. That's what cell phones are for.

Seems like I saw a video or dash cam video on tv once, the BG was getting the better of the LEO. A couple of truckers stopped to help and were definitely a factor in subduing the BG. Their efforts almost got them killed when backup arrived and the responding officers thought they were part of the problem.

[Samurai]

I would LIKE to stop, but...

One of the things that can make a cop's job REALLY dangerous is interference by innocent bystanders. All of the cops I've talked to tell me, if a cop is on the scene, you get OFF the scene! Don't help. Don't get in the way. And above all else, if the police are about to scuffle, it's because someone is dangerous, so do NOT try to apprehend a perp yourself! If you could do it yourself, we wouldn't need police!

Now, that said, if a cop is pinned down under gunfire (remember those two rampaging armor-clad bank robbers in the People's Republic of California several years ago?), then that's a different story. When under direct gunfire, EVERYONE wants help, I don't care who you are. And, those officers were thankful to have a few armed citizens who jumped in to provide additional cover fire for the trapped officers.

So, to help, or not to help? That is the question. The answer would have to be fact-specific. But, whatever you do, just don't get in their way.

[springmom]

YOU STOP. You call out to the officer, "Officer, do you need help?" If the answer is yes, you do what he asks. If he says "get outta here" you do that. If he says "call for backup" you do that.

Simple, ISTM. But I would never just drive on by, no.

Springmom

[Eghad]

If you stop and get out and the officer really needs assistance I dont think he would hesitate to ask. Now if the guy is on top of the officer choking him out I think that assistance should be given or if the guy has a firearm pointed at the officer.

[Trip20]

Seems like I saw a video or dash cam video on tv once, the BG was getting the better of the LEO. A couple of truckers stopped to help and were definitely a factor in subduing the BG. Their efforts almost got them killed when backup arrived and the responding officers thought they were part of the problem.

I believe the video you reference is of Officer Mark Coats who was killed by a shot to the armpit with a .22lr (hit to major artery or something) -- and yes when backup finally arrived, the officers new to the scene were definitely not nice to the good Samaritans who were only trying to offer aid.

But that's understandable -- when arriving on scene you can't tell the good guys from the bad guys. I imagine many a bad guy will try to play the innocent by-stander in any number of situations.

But, for me the bottom line is I couldn't let an officer die or be badly beaten just because backup will arrive and be a little, uh, resolute. It'll all get sorted out in the end, and with any luck you'll live to get recognized by the Mayor and be the hero of TFL.

[brj]

YOU STOP.

Negative, ma'am...You stop. I will make my own decision based on existing circumstances.

Attempting to characterize a potential life threatening decision on a message board as " simple " is downright scary.

[Tim R]

Samuri, Thanks for the thought we LEO's are supermen. As for me, I don't have a cape and put my pants on one leg at a time.

I work in a remote area. Yesterday I could have used a little help. Nearest backup was 25 miles away but it worked out and no body was hurt. My buddies and I will find the guy another day.

Citizens will save my backside when the chips are down.

[threegun]

BRJ, I hope responding officers don't use your glasses on the drive to save your butt.