How realistically can *I* expect to lay down cover fire?

[yy]

This is a spin off of the "how many rounds are enough" topic.


Statistics (FBI) and stories suggest that most CCW holders (or armed private citizens) deter crime without firing a shot. either through attitude or display with or without verbal warning.

But once engaged, it's not clear how often the lone goodguy have to fight off multiple armed assailants. Let's exclude the single badguy. That one involves less tactic and more technique as in shooting to stop the threat by pumping all the rounds into one body.

Once a goodguy engages multiple assailants, a good tactic is to shoot and move to cover and shoot again, and spread the rounds among the targets. Aside from misses (stress makes poor aim and the target ducking), covering fire will require more rounds on your person in addition to being in your weapon.

Now add the comments I've read about terrorist training manual that advocate SWAT-like tactics for urban warfare against soft targets (I mean 2-4 man teams using rifles and explosives, team tactics, aggressive and ruthless tactics,...)

I dislike the limited-capacity magazines dictated by law. But just how likely (or realistically) can a private citizen expect to use cover fire in a gun fight?



an analogy: daily carry of handguns is like wearing your seatbelts. carrying lots of ammo is what? getting airbags? buying uninsured motorist coverage?

[LAK]

There are many aspects to this; most important the enormous number of variables - many of which are not possible to forsee. So it is very difficult if not impossible to be objective in the hypothetical unless there is a detailed scenario to work with.

Having only a pistol while defending yourself against two subjects armed with rifles is not hopeless, but it is the variables of circumstance that are likely to be the deciding factors in such a meeting. If you specifically are the target you are in deep trouble. If it is a random attack and you just happen to be in the area your chances of escape or defending are likely better. Paramount of course is to have the fighting mindset.

Actually tactics are just as important with a single subject as they are with more than one. How you address additional subjects depends on many things; such as what they are armed with individually, where they are positioned in relation to you, how far away is each one, where is your nearest effective cover, etc.

How you make use of your ammunition depends on how much you actually have with you at the time and your skills. I tend to side with those who say that you can never have too much ammo. A little less important, but never the less significant, will be the type of pistol, it's cartridge, and what type of ammunition you have it loaded with.

[Double Naught Spy]

Everything LAK said is right.

How realistically can a CCW person expect to use cover fire? The probability is very high, but the potential frequency is very low.

What does that mean? First off, there is very little chance you will ever need to draw your CCW. There is little chance that once you draw your CCW that you will have to fire it. There is little chance that if you have to fire your drawn CCW, that you will be using cover fire as most folks don't fire too many rounds (although some completely empty their guns, but not as suppression, but in an attempt to actually hit their targets). There is still even less chance that if you have to make cover fire from your drawn CCW that you will be firing to suppress multiple terrorists. AND less chance that if you are using your drawn CCW to lay down cover fire at terrorists that those terrorists have been trained as you described.

Get the picture yet?

Everything posited here will likely reflect your reality. With that said, it is garbage to address the problem in this manner. There is really no reason to carry a concealed gun given probabilities as on an individual basis, the probabilities indicate you are not likely to ever have a real application of your gun in self defense.

Also, no matter the probabilities, EVERY situation is Mutually Exclusive. What that means is that no matter that the chances are, just like the typical weekly lotteries, every situation is unique and previous events of CCW do not indicate what will or will not happen in your experience.

With that said, check out Charles Waters' book "The Best Defense." There is a chapter on a Houston (or Houston suburb) where a recovering heart patient was on his way to the range after months of rehab, once his doctor said it was okay for him to engage in such activity. He comes across a sheriff deputy (?) who gets shot by people he stopped and they are trying to shoot him more. The old heart patient exits his own vehicle and lays down cover fire to protect the downed officer, using the preloaded mags he planned to use for his first range session in months. He knows his aim isn't great, but he manages to pin the bad guys behind their car and keeps them pinned by alternately shooting at each end of the car. During all this, he runs out of loaded ammo and still continues the fight by reloading his mags as he goes. Some lady stops by with a rolled down window and tries to hand him a revolver to use. Additionally, an off duty officer happens to come across the situation and joins the old guy in the fight. In the end, the bad guys flle on foot and are caught later. The old guy is credited with saving the downed officer's life.

Pretty cool story? It is the only civilian non-leo story I know where cover fire was used. It is also the only one I know where a civilian non-leo used multiple magazines during a fight.

Let's see, first is the title query about realistically laying down cover fire by a CCW person.

Second

Once a goodguy engages multiple assailants, a good tactic is to shoot and move to cover and shoot again, and spread the rounds among the targets. Aside from misses (stress makes poor aim and the target ducking), covering fire will require more rounds on your person in addition to being in your weapon.

Now add the comments I've read about terrorist training manual that advocate SWAT-like tactics for urban warfare against soft targets (I mean 2-4 man teams using rifles and explosives, team tactics, aggressive and ruthless tactics,...)

I dislike the limited-capacity magazines dictated by law. But just how likely (or realistically) can a private citizen expect to use cover fire in a gun fight?



an analogy: daily carry of handguns is like wearing your seatbelts. carrying lots of ammo is what? getting airbags? buying uninsured motorist coverage?

[Texian Pistolero]

To state the obvious,

a) do you have a background clear of babby buggies?

b) do you have ENOUGH ammo to do this before you run dry?

Then you are in really bad shape !

But I would not dismiss this out of hand.

[Phil306]

Cover fire...I was involved in a shooting where a did, in fact, fire cover fire. I am a police officer and I used all 46 rounds of ammunition on my gun belt. Granted, it was an officer rescue, however it did occur.

When I first got into "tactical training," one of the best instructors I ever had was Ken J Good. He told me, "Train for the highest and hardest scenario possible. You most likely won't run into that, however, if you can handle that, you can handle anything else in between." Good words to live by.

Its another reason I shoot my pistol out to 100 yards, each and everytime I train with it. I don't spend the vast majority of my time at 100 yds, 75 yds, or even 50 yds. However, if I can hit a 10" round metal plate, at 100 yds, I can sure as hell hit it at 5 yds.

So my advice to you, would be to practice any possible scenario you can come up with and/or think of. It can't hurt and sure as heck may help.

[acmax2k]

I think the number of variables in this situation are endless. This is also not geared towards the casual CCW holder who is typically armed with a 5 shot 2 inch Chief's Special or .32 Pocket Rocket sans spare mag/speed loader. I'm assuming that the goal here is to make them put their heads down and get out of the situation with your skin intact. That being the case, you need to not only worry about the use of effective cover vs. the amount of ammo available to you, but everytime you do move, you would need to be increasing the amount distance between you and them. I think the "shoot and scoot" saying applies here.

[LAK]

[Double Naught Spy]" ..... Some lady stops by with a rolled down window and tries to hand him a revolver to use...."

..... I like that one - sounds like one out of the movies!

[Damon]

I took a class where I was told:

"Accurate aimed fire is a form of cover."