Abortion topics

Glenn E. Meyer · July 5, 2000, 11:19 AM

This is just a thought.

But are abortion topics worth posting to the TFL? They just engender bitter and insulting exchanges and while you may argue that they are related to civil liberties, I don't think they help the RKBA cause one bit.

In fact, I think they would drive away people who we might recruit in aiding the RKBA cause.

There are plenty of places to discuss the issue, so I think that posting a pure abortion topic does us no good at all.

RWK · July 5, 2000, 02:31 PM

Rich,

PLEASE disallow the discussion of abortion on TFL. This topic is almost certainly outside the scope our fundamental charter and it is sure to be divisive.

I am not advocating restrictions of free speech; rather, I am recommending they be conducted in a more appropriate venue -- one not dedicated to "firearms related" interchanges.

Warm regards.

George Hill · July 5, 2000, 04:18 PM

I agree - We'll keep that out of TFL as much as appropriate.

Along with Religion, Race, Alternative Life style debates, Trolling, Spamming and Flaming.

DorGunR · July 6, 2000, 08:26 AM

Quote by George Hill
"Along with Religion, Race, Alternative Life style debates, Trolling, Spamming and Flaming."

Darn George......whats left?.....Man you aint no fun atall.

------------------
"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."

JerryM · July 6, 2000, 10:18 PM

I recognize the right of the owner of this site to limit the scope of the discussions as he sees fit and to delegate authority to moderators as he sees fit. It isn't a free speech issue to me. When you come on my private property your free speech is moderated by me. Having said that it is difficult to avoid this issue of abortion. We have maybe the most important election in our nation's history coming up. Politics then is at the fore. When someone says "Vote for Jessie Ventura for president" it brings up who he is and what he stands for. The same can be said for any candidate. RKBA is a very important issue for me. However, it isn't the most important. The moral issues of abortion and homosexuality are more important to me. Accordingly when everyone is on the bandwagon of a certain pro gun candidate who might be morally far from my views I must disagree with the cheers I hear for him. To ignore that would make me a party to the kudos. If these things do not come up I do not start the thread. However, when raised I do participate vigorously. How can you isolate RKBA and not consider anything else in this election? The libertarians in particular like to stress the freedom of the individual to do as he pleases. What many please to do is morally untenable if we are to continue as a free society. Abortion is about avoiding the responsibility that the Libertarian claims to support. I know many will object to what I have just said, but I simply don't think we can totally ignore the moral issues without losing the RKBA also. Respectfully, Jerry

------------------
Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

TheBluesMan · July 7, 2000, 08:19 AM

I certainly don't think that any moderator would close a thread just because someone mentioned abortion. There certainly are parallels between the RKBA and other controversial, or non-topical subjects. I would tend to agree with Jerry on bringing out all the issues for which a candidate stands. I would tend to just state their positions, and not sermonize on them, though. As George said, "We’ll keep that out as much as appropriate."

Many people here are one issue voters and just don’t care about these "tangential" subjects. Most, I think, believe: "That which unites us is infinitely more important than that which divides us."

**Rich Lucibella** · July 7, 2000, 09:22 AM

Jerry-
The guidelines are more common sensical than written in stone. If someone touts a candidate that you oppose for his views on abortion or other issues, say so. However, if an abortion debate results, expect it to be closed. Similarly, if someone wishes to start a thread bashing a candidate for his views on issues that are non-Constitutional in origin and divisive in content, expect it to be closed prior to the clash.
Rich

JerryM · July 7, 2000, 02:17 PM

Rich,
Thank you. I have found the moderators to be very reasonable in both allowing discussion and closing threads. I agree with TheBluesMan. I believe we can discuss issues without personal attacks and insults. If I ever make personal attacks on the character of a member I would expect to be chastened for it. It is my own policy to neither attack someone personally nor respond to such attack. Thank you for TFL and I realize the difficulty of moderating the various forums. Respectfully, Jerry

------------------
Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

July 5, 2000, 11:19 AM	#1
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	This is just a thought. But are abortion topics worth posting to the TFL? They just engender bitter and insulting exchanges and while you may argue that they are related to civil liberties, I don't think they help the RKBA cause one bit. In fact, I think they would drive away people who we might recruit in aiding the RKBA cause. There are plenty of places to discuss the issue, so I think that posting a pure abortion topic does us no good at all.

July 5, 2000, 02:31 PM	#2
RWK Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 1999 Location: Occupied Virginia Posts: 2,777	Rich, PLEASE disallow the discussion of abortion on TFL. This topic is almost certainly outside the scope our fundamental charter and it is sure to be divisive. I am not advocating restrictions of free speech; rather, I am recommending they be conducted in a more appropriate venue -- one not dedicated to "firearms related" interchanges. Warm regards.

July 5, 2000, 04:18 PM	#3
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	I agree - We'll keep that out of TFL as much as appropriate. Along with Religion, Race, Alternative Life style debates, Trolling, Spamming and Flaming.

July 6, 2000, 08:26 AM	#4
DorGunR Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2000 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,125	Quote by George Hill "Along with Religion, Race, Alternative Life style debates, Trolling, Spamming and Flaming." Darn George......whats left?.....Man you aint no fun atall. ------------------ "Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."

July 6, 2000, 10:18 PM	#5
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	I recognize the right of the owner of this site to limit the scope of the discussions as he sees fit and to delegate authority to moderators as he sees fit. It isn't a free speech issue to me. When you come on my private property your free speech is moderated by me. Having said that it is difficult to avoid this issue of abortion. We have maybe the most important election in our nation's history coming up. Politics then is at the fore. When someone says "Vote for Jessie Ventura for president" it brings up who he is and what he stands for. The same can be said for any candidate. RKBA is a very important issue for me. However, it isn't the most important. The moral issues of abortion and homosexuality are more important to me. Accordingly when everyone is on the bandwagon of a certain pro gun candidate who might be morally far from my views I must disagree with the cheers I hear for him. To ignore that would make me a party to the kudos. If these things do not come up I do not start the thread. However, when raised I do participate vigorously. How can you isolate RKBA and not consider anything else in this election? The libertarians in particular like to stress the freedom of the individual to do as he pleases. What many please to do is morally untenable if we are to continue as a free society. Abortion is about avoiding the responsibility that the Libertarian claims to support. I know many will object to what I have just said, but I simply don't think we can totally ignore the moral issues without losing the RKBA also. Respectfully, Jerry ------------------ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

July 7, 2000, 08:19 AM	#6
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	I certainly don't think that any moderator would close a thread just because someone mentioned abortion. There certainly are parallels between the RKBA and other controversial, or non-topical subjects. I would tend to agree with Jerry on bringing out all the issues for which a candidate stands. I would tend to just state their positions, and not sermonize on them, though. As George said, "We’ll keep that out as much as appropriate." Many people here are one issue voters and just don’t care about these "tangential" subjects. Most, I think, believe: "That which unites us is infinitely more important than that which divides us."

July 7, 2000, 09:22 AM	#7
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Jerry- The guidelines are more common sensical than written in stone. If someone touts a candidate that you oppose for his views on abortion or other issues, say so. However, if an abortion debate results, expect it to be closed. Similarly, if someone wishes to start a thread bashing a candidate for his views on issues that are non-Constitutional in origin and divisive in content, expect it to be closed prior to the clash. Rich

July 7, 2000, 02:17 PM	#8
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	Rich, Thank you. I have found the moderators to be very reasonable in both allowing discussion and closing threads. I agree with TheBluesMan. I believe we can discuss issues without personal attacks and insults. If I ever make personal attacks on the character of a member I would expect to be chastened for it. It is my own policy to neither attack someone personally nor respond to such attack. Thank you for TFL and I realize the difficulty of moderating the various forums. Respectfully, Jerry ------------------ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.