450 Bushmaster VS 458 Socom but not like you think???

[RED_beard92]

First of all this is not really for semi's but about bolt guns. Bolt guns chambered in one of these two rounds. Ruger released the American now cambered in 450 Bushmaster and now I'm really looking into this cartridge. I have read, and reread just about every page on the two and every other caliber in there class....

I am really wanting this as my new PA deer gun, but I cant make up my mind on which to get. From what I know they are each about 2,000 feet per second and both have bullet weights around 250. I know you can get heavier for the Socom, but I am NOT going to reload for this so I'm limited to factory ammo. I plan on having a 150 yard zero which for the 450 would give me roughly a 1.5 inch high at 100 and -3.5 at 200. I would keep that as my max range but know that I COULD stretch it out to 250 with minimal difficulty. I have full faith that both could take down deer, bear, elk and even moose all out to the 150-200 yard mark, unless I'm wrong?... but which is better for trajectory?

Also I would have to get a Gunsmith fit a 458 Socom barrel to an action as there are no factory production bolt guns cambered in this round. So then that prompts the question is it really worth a 458, if even at all??

[MarkCO]

I do reload and when I looked at the .458 vs. .450, the .450 was a better choice for me. If you look, you will debates all over the place, but on game, the difference in minimal. All of the results I have seen say the same thing.

I do think the .450BM is more accurate. Also realize the .450BM was neutered a little by BM to go with the carbine length gas system, which robbed max pressure. I built a .450Corvette which is basically a rifle length gas system and take it back to the original pressure. But that is moot since you don't reload. The bigger benefit to the .458 over the .450 was in the AR15 magazines, but that also goes away in a bolt gun.

Those Rugers are shooting really well and with that, I expect to see some custom loaders produce "Bolt Gun ONLY" rounds in the .450BM to take advantage of that fact. I'd say no-brainer on the .450BM from Ruger.

[smee78]

I also was comparing these rounds thinking about an AR build and was leaning towards the 450BM. I think that says a lot about Ruger chambering the American in 450BM VS the 458.

[bamaranger]

The fact that I could theoretically go and buy a Ruger bolt gun would close the deal for me. Find the rifle, ammo, plunk down the cash, scope and shoot.
No need to pay for a 'smith to fit a barrel, no need to modify AR mags. In a bolt rifle, you wouldn't have to look in the next county for your ejected brass either.

The .458 may well have heavier and tougher bullets (and more expensive), but for blackies and whitetails, and I'd suspect most hogs, the current factory ammo for the .450 should be fine.

When I saw that Ruger was offering the .450BM, I got a little curious myself. 'Bout the last thing I need though.

[Mobuck]

Since both rounds are primarily designed to put big bullets in an AR platform, handicapping a bolt action with such a cartridge seems counter-productive. Even a .308 will give more terminal performance than either with less recoil and longer range.

[peggysue]

50 BEOWULF

[MarkCO]

Since both rounds are primarily designed to put big bullets in an AR platform, handicapping a bolt action with such a cartridge seems counter-productive. Even a .308 will give more terminal performance than either with less recoil and longer range.

There are several states that have recently loosened restrictions on legal method of take. Where shotguns, single shots, etc. were all that were allowed, straight walled cases are now allowed. That is one of the reasons for the .450BM gaining some popularity over the past few years, more so than the .458 SOCOM which is still not allowed in some states, likewise the .308.

[HALL,AUSTIN]

Ypu mean straight walled cases like the 45-70? Now I've had a couple exotic, harder to find calibers but for a 45 caliber rifle I'd assume (and I very well may be wrong) that the 45-70 or a .444 marlin would take the cake as far as performance goes.

[FrankenMauser]

If you are not going to reload, just go with .450 BM.
Ammunition is cheaper and easier to obtain.


I think .458 SOCOM is the better cartridge; but .450 BM is the better answer for people that don't reload.

[stagpanther]

50 BEOWULF

2nd that. : )

[RED_beard92]

I appreciate all the input on this subject, and I did kinda figure the 308 would enter this discussion. I do know that the 308 would be better suited for long range shots but I have never shot anything past 100 yards. There isn't really any cartridge restrictions here in PA but I wanted a new light weight rifle that would really hammer for short range engagements. The Kimber Adirondack did enter my mind but for $1,000 LESS I think the Ruger 450 fits my bill perfect. Thanks so much guys.

[bfoosh006]

My only concern would be .. The .450 Bushmaster uses bullets designed for Handgun speeds.

While the .458 SOCOM uses rifle bullets.

So I would think you would need to choose a tough bullet in the Bushmaster if you wanted to shoot tougher critters.

Does the XTP bullet withstand the higher velocities of the .450 BM ?

[GeauxTide]

My only concern would be .. The .450 Bushmaster uses bullets designed for Handgun speeds.

Au Contraire - Hornady developed the 250grain FTX in conjunction with Bushmaster. It's heavily constructed and the Hornady ammo shoots 1/2" in my 450 AR. Also, the 300gr XTP handgun bullet is heavily constructed.

[bfoosh006]

Hornady developed the 250grain FTX in conjunction with Bushmaster.

Thank You ! I was unaware of this. While I have seen it in Hornady's bullets... I did not make the connection that it was .452 .

Frankly, I assumed it was .458.... Doh !

[FrankenMauser]

The 250 gr FTX is pretty much just a 250 gr SST with a different tip. (I've seen reports that it is exactly the same bullet with a different tip; but the two bullets do appear to have different ogives.)

The SST was designed for muzzle loader use, and was on the market long before .450 BM came about.

When the .450 BM design was ready to be commercialized, Hornady got Bushmaster to agree to let them tweak the cartridge to work with their pre-existing muzzle loader bullet (the 250 gr SST). The benefits being smoother feeding and a bullet actually designed for the velocities the cartridge would achieve (rather than pushing handgun bullets too fast, or rifle bullets too slow).
Had it not been for that muzzle loader bullet already being around, .450 Bushmaster would have more case capacity and velocity, and be found stuffed with XTPs.

[MarkCO]

Had it not been for that muzzle loader bullet already being around, .450 Bushmaster would have more case capacity and velocity, and be found stuffed with XTPs.

Nope.

Tim LeGendre designed the .450 Professional. Bushmaster liked it, and made changes, primarily, the pressure was reduced, in part to account to the carbine length gas system. There are several folks using 450 BM cases in Rifle length gas barrels (some with tighter twist) driving much heavier bullets much faster due to operating at higher pressures afforded by the longer gas system. There are several bullets that hold together well in .452 pushed well above .450BM velocities.

[jmr40]

There isn't really any cartridge restrictions here in PA but I wanted a new light weight rifle that would really hammer for short range engagements.

With no caliber restrictions there are several options in the Ruger American lineup that will hammer game harder at short range as well as long range. Honestly a 308, 7-08, or even the 6.5 Creedmoor will hit harder and penetrate deeper by a significant amount if proper bullets are chosen; close or far. Cost of the rifles will be the same and if you don't reload ammo will be significantly cheaper and easier to find.

But if you just want the 450 it'll kill deer or even larger game. You are handicapping yourself however, and not just at long range. With the 450 you are essentially shooting 45 caliber black powder loads, but from a bolt action repeater instead of a muzzle loader. Which is the the intent of the laws in the former restricted areas. They don't trust hunters with a more powerful weapon. Allowing the limited cartridges they are just makes it somewhat easier for hunters. But it doesn't give them any real ballistic advantages over the older weapons that used to be the only legal option.