Anyone use .22LR conversion kits?

[Ibmikey]

I found while training police officers with their duty weapons some had definite difficulties with the .40 round. With problem cases I would work with the person using a .22 conversion kit for an hour or two. Normally the difficulty was determined and worked on, then back to the duty weapon where the improvement was often immediate.
Several of us honed speed drills using the .22’s and then applied the technique to the bigger caliber with great success. So the sub gun idea worked for me in a training capacity.

[simonrichter]

I have an Uhl conversion for my G17. Very interesting system, using a slide approximately the same weight as the original 9mm and a gas piston booster to compensate. Thus, the handling does feel very much like the original caliber and not so much "air gun" like

[Pyzon]

[QUOTEgaining extra trigger time on that same gun][/QUOTE]

You will never be sorry you went the Kadet route. For this and all the other reasons.

[OhioGuy]

Originally Posted by Pyzon

[QUOTEgaining extra trigger time on that same gun]

You will never be sorry you went the Kadet route. For this and all the other reasons.[/QUOTE]
How would you weigh the benefit of buying the Kadet kit, vs spending the money on roughly 1300 rounds of 9mm practice ammo?

[Jeff22]

This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I started shooting .22 conversion units about 35 years ago, when I was a poor student. About the same time Jerry Usher had an article in (I think) the American Handgunner ANNUAL advocating the use of what he called "understudy" guns for economical practice.

During my military service I used an M-16 (three different models, actually) and carried (in order) an S&W 15 revolver, an M1911A1 and then an M9. I have personal examples of all of those guns.

Over the years I acquired a S&W 18 (.22 cal combat masterpiece), a Colt Ace (.22 on the O frame) and a Ciener and then later a Beretta “practice kit” for the M9. And an Atchisson and then a Colt conversion unit for the AR-15. In 2009 I bought a S&W M&P 15-22 rifle (which works really well)

(I also have a S&W 650 in .22 to go with my S&W 60 HB 3 inch, an argentine .22 conversion unit for my Browning P35, a Sig conversion unit I bought in 2008 for my 9mm 226 & 226-DAK in .40 cal, and a Walther PPK/S in .22 that I use as a practice gun for my Walther PPK & Sig 230. I also have a S&W M&P pistol in .22. One of the current Colt marked M1911 pattern pistols is also on my list of potential purchases, depending on what happens with the availability of .22 LR ammunition)

In my military service I was an LE Specialist in the SPs in the ANG, an MP in the ARNG and then finished up back in the ANG as a CATM instructor. Back in the 80s we had access to the 50 foot indoor range at the local ARNG armory, which had a mild steel backstop and was limited to .22s. Shot thousands of rounds in there, and at the ROTC range on campus (I was enlisted, but I had a friend who was in the ROTC and he was able to get me in a few times) which was also limited to .22 because of a soft steel backstop and questionable ventilation . . .

I've done LOTS of shooting with all of them. I find it works best to do accuracy drills with the .22s. They don't have much recoil, but the balance and trigger pull and sight picture are all the same.

For practice with the bigger guns I usually use an IPSC or IDPA target or an NRA B-34 (1/2 scale) target.

For the .22s I usually use the ½ scale B-34 or B-24 targets or the 1/3rd scale B-29 or TQ-16 or TQ-20 targets . Lately I have also been using the Warrant Tactical WTS-1 target, which has the same scoring zones as a USPSA target.

I basically do my same set of drills at the same distances, but on a much smaller target. It helps a LOT to keep in tune and not spend as much money doing it.

The Ciener unit for the Beretta M9 is serviceable. The Beretta factory unit works better, and does have a hammer de-cocker/safety, just like the original.

The Ciener unit for the Glock is marginally reliable. Mine worked better after I had the chamber and the sides of the extractor where it pivots in the frame polished. If I clean it every 150 rounds or so, use good quality ammo and lube it well, it works reasonably well.

I have found the Advantage Arms conversion unit for the Glock to be a joy to shoot, provided that you use high velocity ammunition with a plated bullet. The same thing is true for the Sig conversion. As long as you run ammo with a plated bullet at 1230 fps or so, they work pretty well. With slower ammo you’ll have many failures to go fully into battery, which is aggravating.

I have the conversions for the G19 and G22 on dedicated Glock frames that I bought from Glockmeister. I tried to talk Sig into selling me a frame to put my conversion unit on, but was unsuccessful.

I bought my Atchisson conversion for the AR-15 in 1982 from Bro-Caliber International in Cincinnati. It was very rough and didn't work very well. Based on a 1985 article in SOLDIER OF FORTUNE Magazine I sent my conversion unit off to John Norrell Arms (now in Little Rock, Arkansas) and paid him almost $300 to tune it up so it would work. IT WAS MONEY WELL SPENT! As long as I keep the unit reasonably clean and well lubed and use good ammo, it'll shoot all day every day. (www,johnnorrellarms.com) (I don't know if he still adjusts conversion units like that or not . . . )

I also have a Ciener converter for an AK-47 . I’ve had it for years and haven’t shot it that much. And not in a long time. That sounds like a good project for this winter.

Of course, the S&W .22 revolvers are a joy to shoot. Particularly the model 18.

The Argentine conversion unit for the Browning HP is pretty good as well. Like all the rest, kept clean, lubed well and fed good quality ammo, it shoots fairly reliably. (I bought mine from Sportsman's Guide about 15 years ago. There was another importer as well, but I haven't seen them advertised for quite a while now)

Peter Stahl in Germany also made conversion units for the Sig P6 (M225) and various of the Smith & Wesson auto pistols. I'm not sure they were ever imported into the US in any numbers. I tried to order a .22 conversion for my S&W 39 about 30 years ago but was unsuccessful.

Years ago you’d see ads in SHOTGUN NEWS for .22 converters for the P38 pistol. I've never seen one and have no idea how well they work.

None of my conversion units for the AR platform are the least ammo sensitive.

The Colt Ace & Beretta factory conversion unit will function with anything. Sig recommends CCI mini-mags in their conversions, and I believe that Advantage Arms recommends Remington Golden Bullets.

Of course, many of the advantages to be found using a .22 for practice are negated when .22 ammo is hard to find and/or really expensive.

[Ibmikey]

Jeff, Thanks for the info, very informative and supports my short post.

[Pilot]

I've had, and used a CZ Kadet Kit .22 conversion on my 75B, and PCR for almost 18 years. It NEVER disappoints. I think it is the best .22 conversion out there, but I have never tried a Marvel unit on my 1911.

[OhioGuy]

With all these glowing reviews of the Cadet CZ kit, maybe I should buy one just to have it There aren't many things I really plan to do with that gun besides upgrade to XS sights. Of course then my .22 slide will have different sights than my 9mm slide....

Just too many options!

[otasan]

I don't. If I want to shoot a .22 pistol, I just get out my Ruger MkII

[Ibmikey]

Otasan, wow are you wound up today reporting on every post on the board, I don’t think I could find enough words to say on each topic but it might be fun to try :

[OhioGuy]

Originally Posted by otasan

I don't. If I want to shoot a .22 pistol, I just get out my Ruger MkII

My point isn't about wanting to shoot a .22 for its own merits. It's about converting a larger caliber pistol to .22 for the sake of less expensive ammo (from that point forward, after the sunk cost of the kit), or for training with less recoil.

While I see the case for something like the Kadet for the CZ, I'm inclined (for now) to just spend that money on another 1000+ rounds of 9mm and train with the "real thing"

[Pilot]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

My point isn't about wanting to shoot a .22 for its own merits. It's about converting a larger caliber pistol to .22 for the sake of less expensive ammo (from that point forward, after the sunk cost of the kit), or for training with less recoil.

While I see the case for something like the Kadet for the CZ, I'm inclined (for now) to just spend that money on another 1000+ rounds of 9mm and train with the "real thing"

That's an option, but I can blow through 1000 rounds in a few range sessions, but I reload. What happens when that is gone? Also, there is just something intrinsically fun about shooting a .22, especially a conversion like the Kadet Kit.

[sigxder]

I have .22 copies or conversion kits for several of my pistols/rifles. Yes they are very useful for training for your major caliber counterparts. It allows for the same feel, trigger pull, sights, mag changes, and so on as my centerfire versions for fraction of the cost. Military institutions around the world have used .22 versions of their larger caliber weapons for a long time.
No you don't get the same recoil impulse. But you get hundreds of rounds of practice sessions at a fraction of the cost. Just don"t let it completely replace your main firearm. Another bonus. I have a shoulder injury I am nursing right now. Not supposed to do anything heavy with my shoulder. My .22"s still allow me to train while my shoulder is down.

[orionengnr]

I bought a Ceiner conversion for my 1911 three or four years ago. Up until that point, I took one of my MkIIs to the range every time. Not sure that one of them has been to the range more than once or twice since, and I have to occasionally wonder why I still own two MkIIs.

Bought a CMMG conversion for my AR after (much too much) consideration and deliberation. Now I regret not doing so earlier.

Nothing wrong with shooting full-power rounds through any gun. Also, absolutely nothing wrong with having a low-cost training/muscle memory option, and a something to introduce others to the sport.

Especially now that .22LR has become available again.

[4V50 Gary]

CZ Kadet conversion kit.
Colt Ace (the original with David Marshall "Carbine" Williams' floating chamber action)

[sigxder]

Yes. Advantage Arms .22 kit for my G22. Great training aid. Solid set up.

[rep1954]

I run a Kimber "Target Rimfire" on a tuned West Hurley frame and love it. It dose prefer HV ammo just as the salesman who sold it to me and the big yellow piece of paper saying so in the case said. About all I shoot is HV so no never mind to me. Kimber now makes a 4" Compact and that makes my eye brows raise.

[aarondhgraham]

I can't find the P-07 Kadet anywhere on the CZ website,,,
Can someone provide a link to it?

Is it the entire pistol or a separate conversion kit?

Thanks in advance

Aarond

.

[Pilot]

Originally Posted by aarondhgraham

I can't find the P-07 Kadet anywhere on the CZ website,,,
Can someone provide a link to it?

Is it the entire pistol or a separate conversion kit?

Thanks in advance

Aarond

.

You can buy just the kit at several retailers, not just this one. Posted as an example only.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/cz-usa-...-10rd-mag.html

[Walt Sherrill]

CZ no longer sells the KADET as a dedicated .22 semi-auto; they only offer the Kadet Kits -- which are assemblies that mount on the standard frames. Note that the kits for the 75B-based models are slightly different from the ones designed for the new P-07 guns.

These kits (upper assemblies) are AS expensive as many dedicated .22s guns, but I really like mine. You can, of course, find a used .22 for less than the Kadet Kit price, but only a few of them will be as accurate.

As suggested above, several vendors sell them.

You can also check with the CZ-USA webstore (which I found thru a web search) or try CZ-CUSTOM

Here's CZ Custom's link: https://czcustom.com/

[aarondhgraham]

Thanks gentlemen:

I own a 75B in 9mm and a 75B Kadet in .22 LR,,,
I got lucky and made my purchase a few months before they discontinued the complete Kadet pistol.

I was sorta hoping that CZ would offer the P-07 Kadet in the complete pistol form.

As I stated earlier I only own one .22 conversion kit,,,
That's for my LC-9 and it hasn't seen a 9mm round since I put the .22 kit on it.

My collection is full of identical pistols in centerfire/rimfire pairs,,,
As I happen to be monetarily flush right at this moment,,,
I was thinking maybe another CZ pair could happen.

Oh well,,,
Such is life.

Aarond

.

[Pilot]

Originally Posted by aarondhgraham

Thanks gentlemen:

I own a 75B in 9mm and a 75B Kadet in .22 LR,,,
I got lucky and made my purchase a few months before they discontinued the complete Kadet pistol.

I was sorta hoping that CZ would offer the P-07 Kadet in the complete pistol form.

As I stated earlier I only own one .22 conversion kit,,,
That's for my LC-9 and it hasn't seen a 9mm round since I put the .22 kit on it.

My collection is full of identical pistols in centerfire/rimfire pairs,,,
As I happen to be monetarily flush right at this moment,,,
I was thinking maybe another CZ pair could happen.

Oh well,,,
Such is life.

Aarond

.

Aarond, I also use my Gen I Kadet Kit in my 75D PCR, which as you know is an aluminum framed, Compact 75. The full size Kadet mags stick out a bit, but I have bought a different, 10 round, compact CZ mag base to use on one of my mags to take up the exposed mag area. Since the PCR frame is lighter, it is a little easier to carry in the field.