The fallacy of one belt

[johnwilliamson062]

I haven't seen much discussion of this in the past, so...
http://www.comicbookbrain.com/_image...aming-star.jpg


There is a decent amount of photographic evidence people carrying all but the lightest guns were once smart enough to use a belt for just their gun as the above non-historic photo of Elvis demonstrates. Now it obviously works better with OWB, but are there benefits to IWB also?

So a while back I found myself wearing running shorts and wanting to wear a decent sized gun accessible on-body. My general carry for exercise is a beefy waist pack with a sub-compact/micro, but that just wasn't appropriate as concealment was paramount and waist pack screams gun.

I decided to put a dedicated gun belt under my running shorts. Dedicated in the sense we usually use the word when talking about gun belts(designed to support a firearm), and also in the sense of it serving the sole purpose of holding the gun up.

Incredibly comfortable.

I have been trying in a few other modes of dress with good results. With a kydex shell the top belt needs to be situated just below the top of the outside of the holster. With the pistol grip outside the pants. The pants belt, if tight,can add additional support and stability to the holster. Not like a thigh strap, but something. When dressing without a belt it is obviously a good option.

Pros:
-I can wear any belt I want for my pants. No worrying about trying to get a 1.25" dress belt that can hold hold a gun. No need for a black, brown, dress, casual, utility, etc. gun belts at $100 each or compromising with a crap belt on occasions. I really need a half dozen or more belts to have appropriate dress in all situations.
-no damage to pants belt.
-gun can stay on in the restroom. No need to un-holster, pants-sling, leave it on the TP holder, etc. Sort of. It can still be awkward.
- If using a belt loop holster and you need to take the gun off it can be done without taking your pants half off depending on type of buckle. I've used J-clip types attachment in the past, but always thought it was a compromise. For me un-holstering during the day is an inherent aspect of carrying.

Cons:
-the buckle(and belt) are in direct contact with your skin. without an undershirt or similar there can be chafing. Any sharpness of the buckle...
-Balancing concealment, access, height on hip, is a lot more complicated than when the holster height is controlled by your pants belt or pants top.
-You can remove the gun without taking off your top belt, but you may still need to adjust the pants belt if it is then too loose.

I don't carry everyday and haven't used this mode of carry extensively(for years or such), but I am liking it so far. It may increase how much I carry as it alleviates some issues I personally have with carrying on certain days.

[75218ron]

If any of you guys still have a waist like that, please keep it that way for your own happiness and piece of mind. It will save you much misery on down the line. Waist fat is almost impossible to get rid of. I should know.

[johnwilliamson062]

It will save you much misery on down the line.

So, you see the problem with this belt design also?

[g.willikers]

Rumor has it that suspenders are making a come back.
Getting rid of waist (waste) fat isn't hard.
Close mouth, move feet.
See, it's easy.
Nothing to it, but to do it.

[zincwarrior]

You're putting a belt under your shorts? OK.

If the buckle is an issue have you looked at a belt like USPSA competitors use?
http://www.doublealpha.biz/daa-pro-belt

Also there are under shirt carry setups you might consider as well (under shirts with pockets that sort of thing).

http://www.undertechundercover.com/

[Wadcutter45]

The first thing I noticed about that picture was that his knife has cut through the sheath lacing and he is in real danger of getting stabbed in the leg next time he sits down.

Hollywood pics aren't very good models for real life.

[TRX]

I went to suspenders a few years ago. Between my body shape and modern pants, it was hard to find pants that didn't require periodically hitching them back up, particularly after bending over or sitting.

It was either the suspenders, or walk around holding my pants up, gangbanger style...

The belt was a non-issue since I'm one of the weirdos who uses a shoulder holster.

[zincwarrior]

Not an issue. The Young King never sat down.

Historically, sidearms were uncommon, at least in the West. Settlers tended to have long guns.

I don't think the idea of a belt under your clothing will be practical. But maybe with a light belt and arm, kind of like a money belt, it will work. That does defeat the purpose of a gun belt though-which distributes weight evenly and is worlds different than a normal belt.


Good luck!

[zukiphile]

Rumor has it that suspenders are making a come back.

Welcome to 1982. I've been waiting here the whole time.

[T. O'Heir]

A belt under any kind of clothing, with or without a holster, is gonna be incredibly uncomfortable. Nylon with a plastic buckle maybe. Still be hot and will dig in a bit though.
There is absolutely nothing about anything you see from Hollywood that is remotely historically accurate. Starting with how firearms, if the guy even had one, were carried. The Presley boy's kit(the knife was probably rubber) is a classic example of Hollywood non-history. Even though the Presley boy was well known for being a gun guy, that rig was probably for some movie.
"...Getting rid of waist (waste) fat isn't hard..." Nope. It's getting off the couch and not wolfing down the carbs that's hard.

[shafter]

I've experimented with it and it's terribly uncomfortable. It slides around and rides up. It's not practical at all. If I had to carry in exercise clothing I'd get one of those undershirts with a built in holster and then wear something slightly larger over it.

[BarryLee]

waist pack screams gun

Well, maybe and maybe not. I generally use one of the 5.11 Select Carry Pouches when I’m walking/running in gym shorts. It’s large enough for a J-Fame and speed loader. With two small pockets to accommodate you Photo ID and Weapons License along with a small set of care keys, but little else. It conceals fairly well under an un-tucked shirt and I doubt most people who see me think gun.

[zincwarrior]

Quote:
waist pack screams gun
Well, maybe and maybe not. I generally use one of the 5.11 Select Carry Pouches when I’m walking/running in gym shorts. It’s large enough for a J-Fame and speed loader. With two small pockets to accommodate you Photo ID and Weapons License along with a small set of care keys, but little else. It conceals fairly well under an un-tucked shirt and I doubt most people who see me think gun.

Also...so what? As long as you are following the law. You're not aggravating the normal person, other CHLers will give you the secret sign, there've been no incidents I am aware of where the PoPo targetted otherwise normal looking people with them (sounds like easily thrown out) and bad guys may steer clear if they realize it.

[johnwilliamson062]

A belt under any kind of clothing, with or without a holster, is gonna be incredibly uncomfortable. Nylon with a plastic buckle maybe. Still be hot and will dig in a bit though.

I wear an undershirt much of the year and with an undershirt I haven't had much of a problem. The belt I linked with the sharp looking release button pointing up would probably cause me problems though. I have used a couple leather and even a canvas slide belt with the buckle on the weak hip and haven't had problems. The canvas with military style buckle and all the edges is probably my least comfortable belt also. I think a nylon belt with polymer reinforcement and velcro fastener would be best and I am looking at some now. Not far off from the double alpha linked above.

It slides around and rides up.

The benefit of belly fat I guess...

Getting rid of waist (waste) fat isn't hard.
Close mouth, move feet.
See, it's easy.
Nothing to it, but to do it.

The actual fat, you might be right. The extra skin and other side effects of having had fat not so much.

The under shirt, and other options haven't worked well for thing G26 or larger. G43, PPK, etc, they seem ok.

[agtman]

Depends entirely on body type - a/k/a: fat guys versus skinny guys.

Fat guys have less options because their "girth" naturally inhibits efficient movement, not to mention quick manipulation of a weapon or magazine reload. Sausage fingers tend to get caught on straps, and bang and jam into stuff as they're trying to grab at something else. Waistline blubber causes issues with gear remaining in line and readily accessible.

[on further review: the remaining comments herein have been removed due to said comments being construed by some folks as insensitive to the plight of the pudgy rather than as the dry humor they were intended to be, drawn from observations made during certain of the author's past "tactical" experiences. Apologies extended ].

[johnwilliamson062]

Also...so what?

There is a tendency on this forum, and probably the world in general, for people to try to fit others experiences and habits into the context of their own lives. I see it a lot here with a law enforcement trained person making LE based suggestions to a civilian carrier or vice versa for instance. None of your listed concerns were my concerns because I was carrying in a different context than you carry.

agtman,
You are correect in the general idea of body type affecting this conversation. My belt isn't going to ride up over my belly as one poster commented was possible. A belt buckle on my left hip also isn't going to dig into bone like it would have when I was wearing a 32" waist pant and measured my strength with pull-ups.
I've been skinny and fat and handled weapons and other equipment in both scenarios. I would say there are definite draw backs to being overweight, but I think you overly exaggerate their effects on weapon handling. If talking about someone with a BMI of 35+ BMI who gets winded taking a flight of stairs you may be right, but I hardly see someone of that weight at the range and would be quite surprised to see them at any sort of shoot. I have also seen quite a few very skinny guys who have similar problems with their gear. The gear is cut to match a certain body type, medium military build type, and if you don't fit that body type you will have some issues unless you can afford to have a tailor make adjustments(My tailor knows me not because the frequency of my visits, but the oddity of my requests). I've also been medium build soaking wet and not had much issue with things sliding around due to 'lubrication', so the sweat comment strikes me as inaccurate.
"Haters gonna hate."

[HiBC]

People come in all different body types.Decent,pleasant,salt of the earth people come in all different body types.
For any of them to bring lessons learned regarding what works carrying for different physiques is,IMO,welcome.

But I fail to see what being rude,obnoxious,insulting,and disrespectful toward folks who are packing extra pounds contributes to this forum.
(Post 15)

[K_Mac]

HiBC, I completely agree. When my health allows I am very fit. The last year has been tough, and I am not in nearly as good shape as I would like. I do the best I can, just like most folks. Judging a person's ability to defend themselves based on looks is as dangerous as it is foolish.

[75218ron]

LOL....I'm surprised that all those comments could have evolved from a friendly comment that I made.

[jmr40]

Getting rid of waist (waste) fat isn't hard.
Close mouth, move feet.
See, it's easy.
Nothing to it, but to do it.

It is far, far more complicated. Unless you are living an extremely unhealthy diet and lifestyle. Think German extermination camps. To lose weight and be healthy usually involves eating MORE food. It is about the choices of WHICH food you eat. The "close mouth, move feet" tactic usually results in long term weight gain and poor health.

But that is another topic. For ultra concealment I like a small gun with the Clip Draw attached. It isn't perfect, with many guns I wouldn't do it with a loaded chamber. While it takes a second longer to get off a shot, that is a lot quicker than going home to get the gun you couldn't carry.

[2damnold4this]

I must confess that I have a little extra around the middle but I like to think of it as tactical flab as it helps conceal a handgun when carrying AIWB. I've lost some tactical flab lately and it's a little more difficult to conceal a g26 but I do feel better.

[Bill DeShivs]

The gunbelt/holster in that pic is an Arvo Ojala rig- standard for Hollywood in the sixties.
How would a rubber knife cut through sheath stitching?

[Double Naught Spy]

No single belt fallacy any more than there is a double belt fallacy. There is just preferences for what people like given their attire.

[zukiphile]

When I jogged with a pistol, I used a canvas version of this holster with the strap running over the right shoulder.

https://www.worldwarsupply.com/cart/...lder-Holster-2

Since it didn't rely on tension around the waist, there were no sagging issues and it was reasonably comfortable.

[pnac]

John, you may want to check out the Brave Response holster:

http://www.brshooting.com/product/braveholster/

Lots of stuff about it on YouTube, but this not an endorsement. I have'nt tried it.