Opinion on possible Petition

AR-10 · December 9, 2001, 02:50 PM

It has been asked in the Revolver Forum whether it would be possible or prudent to create some sort of on line petition here in such a way that members could "sign" it and then send this petition to Smith and Wesson.

The gist of the petition would be a call to action on the part of Smith to begin proceedings to dismantle the agreement.

Is this possible? Would it create a hardship for Rich? Just asking because I have no idea what would be involved with creating such an electronic document.

Would we be just as effective flooding them with thousands of copies of a generic snail mail form?

I have e-mailed Smith in the past with no response back. I believe lots of others have done the same. Is there a more productive way to "get in their face" in a positive fashion?

Jason Demond · December 9, 2001, 04:00 PM

Sounds good. I would sign.

C.R.Sam · December 10, 2001, 10:13 PM

If carefully written and edited.......I like the idea.

Possible also that a few of our knowledgable writers can hammer one out and put it on a host site other than TFL. Then threads could link to it. Both here and on other sites.

We have a vast pool of writers, ex writers, editors, ex editors etc as members. Some of them can even spell, sume times.

I think it needs to be written at least as carefully and all encompasing as the infamous and onerous "Agreement".

Sam

AR-10 · December 10, 2001, 11:06 PM

I have been regretting this thread from the time it was four hours old.

I don't think hosting it on this site is a good idea for various reasons, none of them political.

The basic idea has some merit, although I do not know whether or not it would have a positive effect. I really have no idea of the mechanics involved in creating such a document. That was the reason I asked. To get some idea of whether or not it was feasable.

Sam's idea of putting it on a page somewhere else and getting other gun boards to link to it would possibly generate enough signatures to get some attention. I realize that there are in excess of 10,000 members here, but the active membership is less than that. The number of willing participants is a percentage of that lesser number.

I did not intend to put Rich on the spot. Just kicking around an idea.

C.R.Sam · December 11, 2001, 02:00 AM

We shall leave no good idea unkicked. Bad ones get thrashed. We gotta get someone with the talant and fire to jump on it.

Mike I ???

Sam

Caeca Invidia Es · December 11, 2001, 02:08 AM

You guys find someone to write it up and I'll create the needed software to make it possible and provide the hosting for it.

AR-10 · December 11, 2001, 08:38 AM

Very kind of you. I will contact a few members and we will find a way to get the ball rolling.

Anyone with suggestions may post them here, or PM or e-mail me. I won't get much done during A.M. hrs., as I cannot drag my monitor to work with me.

**Mike Irwin** · December 11, 2001, 03:58 PM

I'd be more than happy to write the body of the Petition.

I'm going to pull some things together this evening to get started on it.

AR-10 -- Great idea. I'm glad we were able to convert you.

Caeca -- Thanks for the offer. Greatly appreciated.

If no one has any objections, when this thing gets up and rolling, I'm going to call in some favors from former coworkers at NRA to try to get this in Random Shots.

I'm also going to try to float the concept of a "status" article for Rifleman.

I really had little interest in getting back into any form of "gun writing" other than what I do here and a couple of other Websites, but some things are more important than what I want to do.

This is one of those things.

buzz_knox · December 11, 2001, 04:01 PM

I'm in. The day the agreement goes down in flames, S&W's sales will increase sharply from my purchases alone.

contender4040 · December 11, 2001, 08:58 PM

At last some very positive input to try to control our future gun rights!
I am in support of the petition and any way it can be implemented.
Would suggest that if we get something going on TFL, we get the message posted in all of the forums such as general, revolver, pistol, shotgun, etc....after the message is posted in each of these forums advising them what we are trying to do and requesting them to come to this section(or the political section), we have the moderator lock down the request in the other sections to keep the response coming to this one section on the petition issue.
I suspect that from the amount of traffic on this section that we are on, very few people ever bother to visit it and would be unaware of a petition here unless we have it posted in the other sections making them aware of this important issue.

C.R.Sam · December 11, 2001, 09:08 PM

Mike......as usual, you have risen to the occasion. Thank you sir. I apologize for the "tweek", subject too serious for that.

Caeca Invidia Es.....cool, thank you too.

To allothers who have and who will help......cool.

Potential there for a monster that they can't ignore.

Sam

Will Beararms · December 13, 2001, 01:50 AM

This is just an idea but what if a form letter was mutually agreed upon on a word file that could be downloaded by all and then we could input our names and addresses and snail mail it to Smith? A pile of paper can't be deleted.

If the word file would have to be read only, then why not just have Blank lines in the return address section and we could write or type the info in?

I love e-mail but the visual image of piles of mail coming into Smith with the same purpose in mind makes me believe we could not be ignored.

Good points Mike. We may disagree on Smith but if I were in a battle, I'd want you in my foxhole.

LilJoe · December 13, 2001, 06:52 AM

I agree with Will. E-mail ca be scanned before being sent to the proper PC inside of S&?.. They could figure on key words of the letter and then just delete them as they come in. Most Corps do it on their mail server looking for those famous four letter words. For once the snail mail would be the best. Maybe they better think about hiring in the mailroom soon? LOL

Borf · December 13, 2001, 09:40 AM

On the downside, printing and mailing is more work. Which, sadly enough, means you will probably get far fewer people replying.

**Mike Irwin** · December 13, 2001, 11:18 AM

Adding a form letter that can be mailed is a good idea.

It's also damned easy. Simple .pdf, which can easily be printed on just about any printer with no problems.

And, Adobe Acrobat .pdf reader is freeware, and included on virtually every computer that's sold today.

labgrade · December 13, 2001, 01:34 PM

Float the topic so all see it at the top of their fave forum & too, I'm certain other boards'll pick up on this toot sweet. Could get more widespread dissemination than that "big bear" story.

The petition, in any electronic form, can be copy/pasted/saved to/whatever to go hard copy/fax.

As with whatever correspondence when communicating with my elected things, e-mail, fax & hard copy - only way to be sure ...

We'll need some addresses & #s

Super idea.

Will Beararms · December 13, 2001, 03:46 PM

Anything worthwhile invloves work. You can bet HCI would do it. Besides, now we weed out the true blue.

Borf · December 13, 2001, 09:39 PM

Agree completely, but playing devil's advocate (need devil-horn smiley).

Having both is good idea.

Also perhaps having a central figure print off petitions when x number have been received and mail those in blocks. As has been said, paper (slightly) harder to ignore than email.

TheBluesMan · December 13, 2001, 10:02 PM

That's a great idea Borf! I don't see any reason why many of us couldn't print out completed online pages and send them in. It puts more paper in their office. Do you really think they'll check to see if there are any duplicated pages?

Herb Leventhal · December 13, 2001, 10:11 PM

I made the suggestion in the revolver forum after "going at it with AR-10". A petition would at least be a constructive way to vent our frustrations no matter which position a member takes. In reviewing the suggestions by AR-10,Will Beararms,Mike Irwin, C R Sam and others all excellent. Why not create a form letter in good taste detailing our dislike for the agreement but our concern for the survival of the company. We can than email the letter and also snail mail it . The former will certainly reach them sooner, the latter may have more "clout"
Herb

C.R.Sam · December 14, 2001, 01:38 AM

So far I'm seein.....

Form letter that each can copy, print and snail mail.

Petition that is printed and snail mailed in blocks.

Good.

Also think each should be mailed to both addresses. S&W and to Safe-T-Hammer.

Leave no tern unstoned.

Sam

AR-10 · December 14, 2001, 07:25 AM

These are great ideas!

I downloaded a petition from KABA last night that I just became aware of. It is worth checking out. Gives us more ideas on how to go about this, and it is worth filling out and sending in. It is a petition to Attorney General Ashcroft to please kick California in the Pants.

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/petition/

Herb Leventhal · December 14, 2001, 06:39 PM

I just downloaded and printed the petition. I agree it looks good
Herb

LilJoe · December 15, 2001, 06:49 AM

Heres the petition from the site.

I also printed it out and made extra copies of the signing sheet to take up to the range to get other signatures too.

C.R.Sam · December 23, 2001, 10:22 PM

RTT

December 9, 2001, 02:50 PM	#1
AR-10 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,182	Opinion on possible Petition It has been asked in the Revolver Forum whether it would be possible or prudent to create some sort of on line petition here in such a way that members could "sign" it and then send this petition to Smith and Wesson. The gist of the petition would be a call to action on the part of Smith to begin proceedings to dismantle the agreement. Is this possible? Would it create a hardship for Rich? Just asking because I have no idea what would be involved with creating such an electronic document. Would we be just as effective flooding them with thousands of copies of a generic snail mail form? I have e-mailed Smith in the past with no response back. I believe lots of others have done the same. Is there a more productive way to "get in their face" in a positive fashion?

December 9, 2001, 04:00 PM	#2
Jason Demond Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 1999 Location: Mivonks, Michigan Posts: 1,846	Sounds good. I would sign. __________________ "ACCEPT NOTHING LESS THAN FULL VICTORY!" General Dwight D. Eisenhower June 6, 1944 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

December 11, 2001, 02:00 AM	#5
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	We shall leave no good idea unkicked. Bad ones get thrashed. We gotta get someone with the talant and fire to jump on it. Mike I ??? Sam Last edited by C.R.Sam; December 11, 2001 at 09:10 PM.

December 11, 2001, 02:08 AM	#6
Caeca Invidia Es Staff Alumnus Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Earth Posts: 834	You guys find someone to write it up and I'll create the needed software to make it possible and provide the hosting for it. __________________ MOLON LABE! I don't approve of political jokes, I've seen too many of them get elected.

December 11, 2001, 03:58 PM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I'd be more than happy to write the body of the Petition. I'm going to pull some things together this evening to get started on it. AR-10 -- Great idea. I'm glad we were able to convert you. Caeca -- Thanks for the offer. Greatly appreciated. If no one has any objections, when this thing gets up and rolling, I'm going to call in some favors from former coworkers at NRA to try to get this in Random Shots. I'm also going to try to float the concept of a "status" article for Rifleman. I really had little interest in getting back into any form of "gun writing" other than what I do here and a couple of other Websites, but some things are more important than what I want to do. This is one of those things. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 10, 2001, 10:13 PM	#3
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	If carefully written and edited.......I like the idea. Possible also that a few of our knowledgable writers can hammer one out and put it on a host site other than TFL. Then threads could link to it. Both here and on other sites. We have a vast pool of writers, ex writers, editors, ex editors etc as members. Some of them can even spell, sume times. I think it needs to be written at least as carefully and all encompasing as the infamous and onerous "Agreement". Sam

December 10, 2001, 11:06 PM	#4
AR-10 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,182	I have been regretting this thread from the time it was four hours old. I don't think hosting it on this site is a good idea for various reasons, none of them political. The basic idea has some merit, although I do not know whether or not it would have a positive effect. I really have no idea of the mechanics involved in creating such a document. That was the reason I asked. To get some idea of whether or not it was feasable. Sam's idea of putting it on a page somewhere else and getting other gun boards to link to it would possibly generate enough signatures to get some attention. I realize that there are in excess of 10,000 members here, but the active membership is less than that. The number of willing participants is a percentage of that lesser number. I did not intend to put Rich on the spot. Just kicking around an idea.

December 11, 2001, 08:38 AM	#7
AR-10 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,182	Very kind of you. I will contact a few members and we will find a way to get the ball rolling. Anyone with suggestions may post them here, or PM or e-mail me. I won't get much done during A.M. hrs., as I cannot drag my monitor to work with me.

December 11, 2001, 04:01 PM	#9
buzz_knox Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse Posts: 4,190	I'm in. The day the agreement goes down in flames, S&W's sales will increase sharply from my purchases alone.

December 11, 2001, 08:58 PM	#10
contender4040 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2001 Location: texas Posts: 240	positive input At last some very positive input to try to control our future gun rights! I am in support of the petition and any way it can be implemented. Would suggest that if we get something going on TFL, we get the message posted in all of the forums such as general, revolver, pistol, shotgun, etc....after the message is posted in each of these forums advising them what we are trying to do and requesting them to come to this section(or the political section), we have the moderator lock down the request in the other sections to keep the response coming to this one section on the petition issue. I suspect that from the amount of traffic on this section that we are on, very few people ever bother to visit it and would be unaware of a petition here unless we have it posted in the other sections making them aware of this important issue.

December 11, 2001, 09:08 PM	#11
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Mike......as usual, you have risen to the occasion. Thank you sir. I apologize for the "tweek", subject too serious for that. Caeca Invidia Es.....cool, thank you too. To allothers who have and who will help......cool. Potential there for a monster that they can't ignore. Sam

December 13, 2001, 01:50 AM	#12
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	This is just an idea but what if a form letter was mutually agreed upon on a word file that could be downloaded by all and then we could input our names and addresses and snail mail it to Smith? A pile of paper can't be deleted. If the word file would have to be read only, then why not just have Blank lines in the return address section and we could write or type the info in? I love e-mail but the visual image of piles of mail coming into Smith with the same purpose in mind makes me believe we could not be ignored. Good points Mike. We may disagree on Smith but if I were in a battle, I'd want you in my foxhole. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

December 13, 2001, 06:52 AM	#13
LilJoe Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2001 Location: North Eastern Ohio Posts: 185	I agree with Will. E-mail ca be scanned before being sent to the proper PC inside of S&?.. They could figure on key words of the letter and then just delete them as they come in. Most Corps do it on their mail server looking for those famous four letter words. For once the snail mail would be the best. Maybe they better think about hiring in the mailroom soon? LOL

December 13, 2001, 09:40 AM	#14
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	On the downside, printing and mailing is more work. Which, sadly enough, means you will probably get far fewer people replying. __________________ A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- Wiliam James If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money it values more, it will lose that, too. -- W. Somerset Maugham

December 13, 2001, 11:18 AM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Adding a form letter that can be mailed is a good idea. It's also damned easy. Simple .pdf, which can easily be printed on just about any printer with no problems. And, Adobe Acrobat .pdf reader is freeware, and included on virtually every computer that's sold today. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 13, 2001, 01:34 PM	#16
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Float the topic so all see it at the top of their fave forum & too, I'm certain other boards'll pick up on this toot sweet. Could get more widespread dissemination than that "big bear" story. The petition, in any electronic form, can be copy/pasted/saved to/whatever to go hard copy/fax. As with whatever correspondence when communicating with my elected things, e-mail, fax & hard copy - only way to be sure ... We'll need some addresses & #s Super idea.

December 13, 2001, 03:46 PM	#17
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Anything worthwhile invloves work. You can bet HCI would do it. Besides, now we weed out the true blue. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

December 13, 2001, 09:39 PM	#18
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	Agree completely, but playing devil's advocate (need devil-horn smiley). Having both is good idea. Also perhaps having a central figure print off petitions when x number have been received and mail those in blocks. As has been said, paper (slightly) harder to ignore than email. __________________ A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- Wiliam James If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money it values more, it will lose that, too. -- W. Somerset Maugham

December 13, 2001, 10:02 PM	#19
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	That's a great idea Borf! I don't see any reason why many of us couldn't print out completed online pages and send them in. It puts more paper in their office. Do you really think they'll check to see if there are any duplicated pages? __________________ -Dave Miller ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Personal Protection. Tick-off Obama - Join the NRA Today - Save $10

December 13, 2001, 10:11 PM	#20
Herb Leventhal Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 206	The Petition to S&W I made the suggestion in the revolver forum after "going at it with AR-10". A petition would at least be a constructive way to vent our frustrations no matter which position a member takes. In reviewing the suggestions by AR-10,Will Beararms,Mike Irwin, C R Sam and others all excellent. Why not create a form letter in good taste detailing our dislike for the agreement but our concern for the survival of the company. We can than email the letter and also snail mail it . The former will certainly reach them sooner, the latter may have more "clout" Herb

December 14, 2001, 01:38 AM	#21
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	So far I'm seein..... Form letter that each can copy, print and snail mail. Petition that is printed and snail mailed in blocks. Good. Also think each should be mailed to both addresses. S&W and to Safe-T-Hammer. Leave no tern unstoned. Sam

December 14, 2001, 07:25 AM	#22
AR-10 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,182	These are great ideas! I downloaded a petition from KABA last night that I just became aware of. It is worth checking out. Gives us more ideas on how to go about this, and it is worth filling out and sending in. It is a petition to Attorney General Ashcroft to please kick California in the Pants. http://www.keepandbeararms.com/petition/

December 14, 2001, 06:39 PM	#23
Herb Leventhal Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 206	The 2nd Amendment Petition I just downloaded and printed the petition. I agree it looks good Herb

December 23, 2001, 10:22 PM	#25
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	RTT