Lee 9mm Sizing Die Adjustment in Vertically Sloppy Classic Turret

danielj · January 10, 2014, 01:49 PM

Howdy, folks. I just started reloading some 9mm with a Lee CT press and carbide die set. I adjusted the sizing die so it almost (couple 1,000's of an inch) touches the shell holder with no case installed. When I'm sizing cases, though, this distance increases such that the case only enters the die to a point 2-3mm above the web. This is due to the play in the turret--when a case is sized, the force on the die pushes the turret up by 2-3mm. The turret maintains it's horizontal alignment, but definitely has some slop vertically. Is this normal? Question is, should I adjust the carbide die to take this slop into account in order to achieve full length case sizing? This would basically require adjusting the carbide die like a non-carbide die--screw it in until it touches the shell holder firmly, lower the ram, then turn it in to lower it a few millimeters. Then, without a case installed, the die would stop ram motion before max vertical, but with a case installed, the turret slop would allow maximum vertical movement and full length sizing. I'll get a single stage soon... Thanks!

Claude Clay · January 10, 2014, 01:55 PM

lee turrrets are sloppy but the good news is --its a constant amount of play.

I set them up as instructed ( sounds like what you did) and than fine tune each station with a case and make a few dummy rounds ( no powder or primer).

also the primer may need a bit more height to operate smoother -- use a washer

make it a single stage by removing the black square bar behind the ram.
but the slop will still be there. once adjusted for -- its a difference that makes no difference

higgite · January 10, 2014, 02:17 PM

Not sure why you adjusted the die so it doesn't touch the shellholder. Lee's die instructions say to turn it in until it does touch the shell holder and lock it down. On my LCT, I turn the carbide sizing die in until it touches the shellholder AND takes out the slop in the turret, then lock it down. That has served me well. ymmv

danielj · January 10, 2014, 02:29 PM

Thanks to both for your replies. I'm glad to know that the vertical play is OK, and that others have accounted for it as you have. My initial adjustment--just above the shell holder--was a reaction to disparities between Lee install instructions and what seemed to be community opinion that carbide dies should never impact the shell holder because they're brittle. I'll bring my die down a bit to account for the play and ensure full length sizing. Have a great weekend.

Sevens · January 10, 2014, 02:41 PM

Daniel, I'll put it a slightly different way in hopes that it also gives you a bit of confidence. The Classic Turret and the play in the turrets are very specifically designed to do exactly this. Otherwise, we'd never be able to swap them in and out so quickly and easily.

Of all the different turret presses on the market (there aren't that many, actually), none of them even approach the quick-swap and low-cost nature of the Lee Classic Turret.

So when the ram goes to full extension and the working piece of brass exerts force on the turret and lifts it up (easily visible!), this is precisely how it is designed to work.

For sure, adjust the die down to bottom on the shell holder when at FULL force. I adjust flare and seat/crimp dies to be set at the press ram stop, but when it comes to full length sizing handgun brass with a carbide die, my ram stop is the shell holder making firm, physical contact with the bottom of the size die.

I haven't heard warnings of them being brittle (not saying they aren't valid?!) but a couple decades and tens of thousands of rounds and I've not yet replaced a Lee size die nor a shell holder.

Hope that helps.

WESHOOT2 · January 10, 2014, 03:21 PM

While my LEE carbide sizers seem to be touching the shell-holder or -plate, they might not be; they might, too.

Fun aside, I crank 'em down to ensure I'm getting as much sizing as possible.

SVTCobra306 · January 10, 2014, 03:27 PM

I screw mine down until it touches the shellholder, then lock it. I use a RockChucker, so I don't have much if any play to worry about, the thing is solid

GJSchulze · January 10, 2014, 05:32 PM

A regular sizing die for straight walled pistol brass does not full-size the case, so yes, this normal. If you are having trouble with a bulge at the bottom that interferes with clambering or if it won't fit flush in a headspace gauge, the Lee Factory Crimp die will take care of that.

Two reasons to believe this:
--part of the web is below the shell plate
--the mouth of the resizing die is bigger than the case so the case will enter it smoothly, so that's another little bit that isn't affected.

Nordeste · January 10, 2014, 08:34 PM

All's been said so I have nothing to add. Just set your dies as per the instructions and you'll have high quality ammo. I suggest you use the features of the factory crimp die and seat and crimp separately. The LCT is a wonderful press. Even if some day I own a progressive, this one is not going anywhere.

bedbugbilly · January 11, 2014, 12:41 PM

It's all been pretty well stated. I use the same press and the Lee 4 die set for the 9mm and just adjust as instructed according to the insert info with the die set. All of it works well and I am very pleased with the way the press works and the results - I'm using my cast bullets.

That said, I'm also using "range brass" that I've purchased in quantity. I have run across several casings that are oversize just above the ejection ring. While I ran them through the FL sizing die, the bulge is enough that they won't drop in my cartridge gauge. This "oversize" is probably due to the pistol they were shot in. While I can load them with no problem on the press and with the dies - they will not chamber the way they should so they get tossed. I mention this since if you are using "range brass" - you may run across one once in a while. If you do - it's not you, the press, the dies or what you are doing ' it's just a bad case that needs to be tossed. In 1000 cases, I've found perhaps 4 or 5 and after knowing what to look for, you can pretty much tell just by looking at them as they come out of the FL sizing die. In to my scrap box they go! I would imagine this could happen with other calibers as well.

jsflagstad · January 12, 2014, 01:41 PM

I had the same concern with my LCT. I saw the turret plate moving leaving me scratching my head and wondering about what I saw. Given that thought, I came to the conclusion that others have said here and that is that it's very consistent. I bottom my dies on the shell holder and all has been fine. The LCT press is very popular and for good reason. Like others have said, I'll never be without mine unless they come out with a better one for the same or better value.

SL1 · January 12, 2014, 04:58 PM

I did not go down-stairs to check, but I remember reading somewhere that die manufacturers quit setting the carbide rings all the way down to the mouth of the die so that the ring could never contact the shell plate and be cracked, like what used to happen with the early carbide dies.

So, whoever is reading this should probably check that on any carbide dies they intend to use as ram stops, just to be sure that they have a die that will handle that OK.

SL1

January 10, 2014, 01:49 PM	#1
danielj Member Join Date: January 10, 2014 Posts: 17	Lee 9mm Sizing Die Adjustment in Vertically Sloppy Classic Turret Howdy, folks. I just started reloading some 9mm with a Lee CT press and carbide die set. I adjusted the sizing die so it almost (couple 1,000's of an inch) touches the shell holder with no case installed. When I'm sizing cases, though, this distance increases such that the case only enters the die to a point 2-3mm above the web. This is due to the play in the turret--when a case is sized, the force on the die pushes the turret up by 2-3mm. The turret maintains it's horizontal alignment, but definitely has some slop vertically. Is this normal? Question is, should I adjust the carbide die to take this slop into account in order to achieve full length case sizing? This would basically require adjusting the carbide die like a non-carbide die--screw it in until it touches the shell holder firmly, lower the ram, then turn it in to lower it a few millimeters. Then, without a case installed, the die would stop ram motion before max vertical, but with a case installed, the turret slop would allow maximum vertical movement and full length sizing. I'll get a single stage soon... Thanks!

January 10, 2014, 01:55 PM	#2
Claude Clay Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2007 Location: CT Posts: 325	lee turrrets are sloppy but the good news is --its a constant amount of play. I set them up as instructed ( sounds like what you did) and than fine tune each station with a case and make a few dummy rounds ( no powder or primer). also the primer may need a bit more height to operate smoother -- use a washer make it a single stage by removing the black square bar behind the ram. but the slop will still be there. once adjusted for -- its a difference that makes no difference __________________ NRA Instructor -- NRA Basic Pistol & Re-Loading Make a fire for a man and you warm him for the night Light him on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life

January 10, 2014, 02:29 PM	#4
danielj Member Join Date: January 10, 2014 Posts: 17	Thanks! Thanks to both for your replies. I'm glad to know that the vertical play is OK, and that others have accounted for it as you have. My initial adjustment--just above the shell holder--was a reaction to disparities between Lee install instructions and what seemed to be community opinion that carbide dies should never impact the shell holder because they're brittle. I'll bring my die down a bit to account for the play and ensure full length sizing. Have a great weekend.

January 10, 2014, 02:41 PM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Daniel, I'll put it a slightly different way in hopes that it also gives you a bit of confidence. The Classic Turret and the play in the turrets are very specifically designed to do exactly this. Otherwise, we'd never be able to swap them in and out so quickly and easily. Of all the different turret presses on the market (there aren't that many, actually), none of them even approach the quick-swap and low-cost nature of the Lee Classic Turret. So when the ram goes to full extension and the working piece of brass exerts force on the turret and lifts it up (easily visible!), this is precisely how it is designed to work. For sure, adjust the die down to bottom on the shell holder when at FULL force. I adjust flare and seat/crimp dies to be set at the press ram stop, but when it comes to full length sizing handgun brass with a carbide die, my ram stop is the shell holder making firm, physical contact with the bottom of the size die. I haven't heard warnings of them being brittle (not saying they aren't valid?!) but a couple decades and tens of thousands of rounds and I've not yet replaced a Lee size die nor a shell holder. Hope that helps. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 10, 2014, 03:21 PM	#6
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I have many dies While my LEE carbide sizers seem to be touching the shell-holder or -plate, they might not be; they might, too. Fun aside, I crank 'em down to ensure I'm getting as much sizing as possible. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 10, 2014, 02:17 PM	#3
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	Not sure why you adjusted the die so it doesn't touch the shellholder. Lee's die instructions say to turn it in until it does touch the shell holder and lock it down. On my LCT, I turn the carbide sizing die in until it touches the shellholder AND takes out the slop in the turret, then lock it down. That has served me well. ymmv

January 10, 2014, 03:27 PM	#7
SVTCobra306 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Posts: 434	I screw mine down until it touches the shellholder, then lock it. I use a RockChucker, so I don't have much if any play to worry about, the thing is solid __________________ Former US Army Paratrooper (1/509th PIR and 2nd BCT 82nd ABN DIV) 2 time OIF Veteran NRA Certified RSO/CRSO NRA Certified Pistol Instructor

January 10, 2014, 05:32 PM	#8
GJSchulze Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2013 Location: Western New York Posts: 454	A regular sizing die for straight walled pistol brass does not full-size the case, so yes, this normal. If you are having trouble with a bulge at the bottom that interferes with clambering or if it won't fit flush in a headspace gauge, the Lee Factory Crimp die will take care of that. Two reasons to believe this: --part of the web is below the shell plate --the mouth of the resizing die is bigger than the case so the case will enter it smoothly, so that's another little bit that isn't affected.

January 10, 2014, 08:34 PM	#9
Nordeste Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2011 Location: Asturias, Spain Posts: 328	All's been said so I have nothing to add. Just set your dies as per the instructions and you'll have high quality ammo. I suggest you use the features of the factory crimp die and seat and crimp separately. The LCT is a wonderful press. Even if some day I own a progressive, this one is not going anywhere.

January 11, 2014, 12:41 PM	#10
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	It's all been pretty well stated. I use the same press and the Lee 4 die set for the 9mm and just adjust as instructed according to the insert info with the die set. All of it works well and I am very pleased with the way the press works and the results - I'm using my cast bullets. That said, I'm also using "range brass" that I've purchased in quantity. I have run across several casings that are oversize just above the ejection ring. While I ran them through the FL sizing die, the bulge is enough that they won't drop in my cartridge gauge. This "oversize" is probably due to the pistol they were shot in. While I can load them with no problem on the press and with the dies - they will not chamber the way they should so they get tossed. I mention this since if you are using "range brass" - you may run across one once in a while. If you do - it's not you, the press, the dies or what you are doing ' it's just a bad case that needs to be tossed. In 1000 cases, I've found perhaps 4 or 5 and after knowing what to look for, you can pretty much tell just by looking at them as they come out of the FL sizing die. In to my scrap box they go! I would imagine this could happen with other calibers as well. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

January 12, 2014, 01:41 PM	#11
jsflagstad Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Up Nort Posts: 419	I had the same concern I had the same concern with my LCT. I saw the turret plate moving leaving me scratching my head and wondering about what I saw. Given that thought, I came to the conclusion that others have said here and that is that it's very consistent. I bottom my dies on the shell holder and all has been fine. The LCT press is very popular and for good reason. Like others have said, I'll never be without mine unless they come out with a better one for the same or better value. __________________ JSF "Is your rifle interesting? -Larry Potterfield

January 12, 2014, 04:58 PM	#12
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	I did not go down-stairs to check, but I remember reading somewhere that die manufacturers quit setting the carbide rings all the way down to the mouth of the die so that the ring could never contact the shell plate and be cracked, like what used to happen with the early carbide dies. So, whoever is reading this should probably check that on any carbide dies they intend to use as ram stops, just to be sure that they have a die that will handle that OK. SL1