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Old February 14, 2015, 05:02 PM   #1
Kimio
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ATI GSG M1911 .22LR, guide rod failure, seeking advice.

Long story short, I loaded up my GSG M1911 today and headed out to the range. The gun was clean and I've never had any issues with it before that was not ammo related.

After roughly 10 rounds down range things went south, and I notice the guide rod was protruding out of the gun. Quickly cleared the handgun, and tore it down to find the guide rod had sheared away from the main housing (not sure what to call it). All other components looked fine, and fortunately the rod snapped after the last round fired and the slide locked to the rear.

I can't complain too much, since the gun likely has close to 2-2.5k rounds through it and this is the first parts failure I've encountered.

This appears to be a common issue with the GSG M1911's, and looking at ATI's website, it does not appear that they offer a replacement part that I can order.

I'm still researching this issue, but if anyone else could offer suggestions for a replacement (one that is more reliable hopefully) I'd be appreciative.
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Old February 14, 2015, 05:20 PM   #2
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Why don`t you call them Monday and talk to them.
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Old February 14, 2015, 05:33 PM   #3
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You can also read through some of the issues at 1911.com. Christopher from ATI has a sticky thread in "other 1911's" and handles many GSG problems there. I have the officer sized 1911-22 and have a good time shooting it. From the responses I have seen the ATI customer service is good.


http://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...283805&page=41

Hope this helps.
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Old February 14, 2015, 05:43 PM   #4
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It's been awhile, but there was a problem with the guide rods in the early pistols. GSG did, I believe, revise the design a bit but I don't remember enough to be able to describe or recognize the differences.

And I'm pretty certain I recall that someone is selling an aftermarket replacement that's pretty much (pardon the expression) bullet-proof.
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Old February 14, 2015, 05:58 PM   #5
Kimio
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I purchased mine back in fall of 2011, I don't remember if that would qualify as an early production model or not.

ZR Tactical apparently sells a stainless steel replacement for $17, I may just order that from them. According to the link that was so kindly provided by Dusty, several people have ordered them and have not had any issues with them.

Now I need to figure out if I accidently jacked up the crown of the gun due to me being an idiot earlier on (first handgun, didn't know much about cleaning), since my shots are all over the darn paper with it.
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Old February 14, 2015, 06:18 PM   #6
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Have you discovered the error of your ways and now clean it from the breech end?
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Old February 14, 2015, 06:23 PM   #7
Kimio
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@G.Willikers Hah! yes I have in fact. But the damage I fear is already done with my little .22LR

It wasn't until after I read more and did more research that I found that out. Now it's all one way with the cleaning rod, and removing the jag before pulling it back out of the bore. Never cleaned my firearms from muzzle end first though, always from the bore. Dragging it back and forth though, I'm guilty of that.
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Old February 14, 2015, 06:26 PM   #8
g.willikers
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Unless you were using a cleaning rod and jag that are harder than the barrel, it's unlikely there's any damage.
Guns are tough.
However, that means you've lost a good excuse why you're not getting good accuracy.
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Old February 14, 2015, 06:48 PM   #9
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Hmmm, then perhaps it's something else. I can shoot relatively accurately with my 9mm, but my little .22LR is printing all over the place. May just send it into a smith to see if they can take a look at it and see if it's me or the gun. Pretty sure it's me, but we'll see.
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Old February 15, 2015, 08:35 AM   #10
g.willikers
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What do you mean by it being inaccurate?
Not all the bullets are going into the same hole?
Can't keep any kind of group at all?
Have you tried different ammo?
.22s can be very picky about ammo.
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Old February 15, 2015, 11:52 AM   #11
Kimio
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What I mean is that the gun is printing groups almost a foot in diameter even when I have it rested on a bench and my arms and the gun supported using a variety of ammunition at 6yrds. From CCI Mini mags to cheap bulk pack Remington thunderbolts.

Last edited by Kimio; February 15, 2015 at 01:23 PM.
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Old February 15, 2015, 12:22 PM   #12
Sevens
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Two suggestions from high round count experience with multiple examples of this same design:

Indeed, the early guide rods were prone to failure. GSG comes with a 2yr warranty but perhaps if you call, maybe they'll send a new guide rod for free.

As to the accuracy problem you are experiencing, I can tell you that with my pistol, if you have removed the screw and removed the barrel from the frame, expect anywhere from 30-50 shots after reassembly before the pistol "settles" back in to a repeatable groove for the accuracy to return. And either way, I've never seen more than "acceptable" accuracy from it, certainly find for plinking fun but never a target quality performer.
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Old February 16, 2015, 01:36 AM   #13
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I also have about 2,000 or a little more rounds through my GSG 1911-22. I replaced my guide rod and spring and installed the Performance Ehancement Kit from www.cwaccessories.com and my groups shrunk back to better that new. The guide rod is stainless steel and longer than the stock one. Problem solved; and fast shipping from CWA. This whole upgrade was around $80 and well worth it in my opinion. My GSG runs great now and eats anything; accurately too.
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Old February 16, 2015, 02:39 AM   #14
Kimio
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I've been noticing excessive wear on the slide, especially around the slide catch, does anyone here know of some good aftermarket ones that are a bit more durable?

@Druryj Have you used the slides from the website you linked for your GSG at all? If so, how have they held up to general wear and tear?
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Old February 16, 2015, 01:48 PM   #15
Sevens
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Kimio, I'm not sure if you are describing finish wear and color loss or actual metal peening and distortion.

The finish on the GSG is ultra-cheap. My pistol has been worth every penny I spent on it and it's digested over 5,000rds. It has, by far, the cheapest finish of any firearm I've ever owned. If pics were easier for me to post I would show you the finish loss that probably makes yours look nearly new. At the price point, I simply ignore it.

Also have to keep in mind that this is a Zamak slide, it is not durable, high quality, strong steel. It's metal -- kind of, designed to be extremely lightweight so that the .22LR will operate it.

It's my suggestion to keep the expectations near the price point. Mine has given piles of fun for very low money but it simply is NOT the kind of hardware that is going to last a lifetime.
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Old February 20, 2015, 11:03 PM   #16
Kimio
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Update 02/20/2015

So I just got the guide rode from ZR tactical, and the gun Ops checks good, but I noticed something odd about the thread protector when I was cleaning the gun.

I have a feeling this may be what is causing the problems with the handguns over all accuracy. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

I've also included some pictures of the "peening" of the slides metal where the slide catch is located.

sorry for the poor picture quality, my camera didn't want to focus for some reason.

Broken Guide rod

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/...e/DSC01987.jpg

Muzzle cap/thread protector

http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/Ar...01986.jpg.html

http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/Ar...01983.jpg.html

Slide wear

http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/Ar...tml?sort=3&o=1

http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/Ar...tml?sort=3&o=0
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Old February 21, 2015, 05:38 AM   #17
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No offense intended... but when my other 22 handguns aren't accurate enough for my needs or whims I get out my Browning Buck Mark or borrow my FiL's Ruger Mark II.

I paid $250 for the Buck Mark (used). On a good day my ten-year-old daughter can put nine shots into a group the size of a quarter at seven yards. l might end up with one hole where the bullseye used to be. The Ruger is every bit as good. Our plinking 22's are fun, but will never be as accurate.

Just something to think about.
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Old February 21, 2015, 08:50 AM   #18
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimio
So I just got the guide rode from ZR tactical, and the gun Ops checks good, but I noticed something odd about the thread protector when I was cleaning the gun.

I have a feeling this may be what is causing the problems with the handguns over all accuracy. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

I've also included some pictures of the "peening" of the slides metal where the slide catch is located.
As to the muzzle cap, I assume you are referring to what appears to be a burr just inside the crown of the muzzle cap. That certainly can't be helping accuracy. I'm sure it can be reamed out with some not-too-expensive tool -- if you are a do-it-yourself kind of person, you probably already own something that will do the job.

As to the slide peening, the GSG isn't supposed to lock the slide open on empty, so the slide stop should never be engaging that notch except when you manually push it up -- which wouldn't cause peening. It's the forward part of the notch that's chewed up, so the slide stop has to be hitting it while the slide is traveling rearward. How's your shooting grip? Is there a chance that you are putting upward pressure on the slide stop and causing it to "ride" the slide?
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Old February 21, 2015, 12:43 PM   #19
Kimio
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@AB Odd, because the slide stop has always engaged on the last round fired for my GSG, even the videos that Sturmgewehr (Tim) from The Military Arms Channel (MAC) on YT and a member who used to frequent here, his GSG M1911 locked the slide back on last round fired. May be this is something early models did?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8uLdRIFpPY

the way I was shooting before may have been pushing the slide catch up, but I don't think it has been recently.

I like to do stuff myself, but I lack the proper tools to do it myself sadly (All the tools I used to use belonged to my father). Even so, I'm not entirely sure what to use in this scenario. I Would imagine I might be able to dremel or sand out the burrs inside the cap perhaps.

Any suggestions?

Last edited by Kimio; February 21, 2015 at 12:58 PM.
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Old February 21, 2015, 03:51 PM   #20
Aguila Blanca
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Well, I sit corrected. I just scared up two reviews of the GSG. One doesn't mention whether or not the slide locks open, the other says it does. I don't own a GSG but I have shot one, and I have to confess that I don't remember.

But the slide is basically Zamack, no matter what they call it, and that's not nearly as hard as steel. If the GSG really does lock open on empty, I am truly surprised.

This review offers a basis on which to compare your accuracy:

http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.ph...-AD-OPS-Review

And, from the second review:

Quote:
Some GSG 1911 .22 users have reported some “peening” occurring on the slide stop notch. According to the gunsmiths at ATI, this is a cosmetic issue for the most part, but it does nonetheless indicate that the use of zinc alloy does involve some compromises.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; February 21, 2015 at 03:59 PM.
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Old February 21, 2015, 11:20 PM   #21
Kimio
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Thanks for the link AB.

I just made it out to the range today to function test the handgun, and it works just fine now. Oddly enough, two brands of ammunition that didn't work before, now works fine out of the gun. Not sure what that's all about.

That said, I did some rested shooting with the handgun, and found it was shooting roughly 1/2-1" at 6 yards. So a lot of the accuracy issues does seem to be shooter related (Typically is). I may look into replacing the front irons though, the front sight blade doesn't really fill up the rear sight and I find that it can be a little difficult for me to keep things all nice and centered and focused.
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