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Old May 19, 2024, 08:40 PM   #1
Biff Tannen
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Semi auto handgun jam stats- the first and last round?

I have heard that statistically, semi auto Handguns are more likely to jam on the first round or the last round in a magazine. I cannot find any data or statistics on this, and I was wondering what your experiences reflect. Thank you so much for commenting.
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Old May 19, 2024, 11:37 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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In recent ammo comparisons, two loads would malfunction on the first shot and then empty the magazine. Another unreliable load struck at random.

The hasty slide lock reload common in IDPA seems a source of trouble but I don’t have numbers.
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Old May 20, 2024, 11:45 AM   #3
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Have no experience--I use Glocks.
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Old May 21, 2024, 01:08 AM   #4
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Other than to satisfy one's curiosity, what is the point of looking at various statistics??

My point here is that, what matters more than statistics is what YOUR guns DO or don't do.

My experience is, good quality semi autos, fed good quality ammo rarely jam, and when they do, it is a completely random occurrence.

To be clear, when you say jam on the 1st or last round, you are talking about a failure to feed, aren't you? Failure to feed, fully close, and lock shut in battery (if you're shooting a locked breech gun).

Jams from failures to extract or eject properly are a different matter, and usually with a different reason.
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Old May 21, 2024, 06:13 PM   #5
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In my experience, last-round failures are most common, and usually because of worn-out mag springs.
First-round failures are often in "+1" mags, with the spring compressed almost to a tight stack, the spring pressure on the top round resisting feeding.
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Old May 22, 2024, 02:02 AM   #6
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Have no experience--I use Glocks.
I'm sure that's true!

I have lots of experience, and I don't use Glocks.

Never having a jam and thinking that you never will are different things. I've had Glocks jam. EVERYTHING CAN.
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Old May 22, 2024, 01:24 PM   #7
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I'm sure that's true!

I have lots of experience, and I don't use Glocks.

Never having a jam and thinking that you never will are different things. I've had Glocks jam. EVERYTHING CAN.
LOL!

There's a grouchy old curmudgeon in every crowd.

I'll let you know if one of my Glocks ever jams.

There are many reasons why Glock dominates the handgun market.........this article gives us a few.

From the article: "Glock also concentrated on making his weapon reliable over all else, and in a competition that allowed for twenty jams in ten thousand shots, his pistol only failed once."

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ig-sauer-23487

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Old May 22, 2024, 02:04 PM   #8
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Have no experience--I use Glocks.
My Glock 22 will jam on the 2nd round fired with a full 15rd mag and one in the chamber.
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Old May 22, 2024, 02:13 PM   #9
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My Glock 22 will jam on the 2nd round fired with a full 15rd mag and one in the chamber.
I don't expect any .22 semiauto to be reliable.......for starters, the ammo is crap.

Glock is new to .22 manufacture.

I have .45s and 9mms.

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Old May 22, 2024, 07:46 PM   #10
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I thought the Glock 22 is a .40 caliber. ?
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Old May 22, 2024, 07:54 PM   #11
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I thought the Glock 22 is a .40 caliber. ?
If it's a .40 the problem is also the ammo.

The steep pressure curve of the .40 has caused a lot of problems in the Glocks........the Glock folks were in a hurry to beat Smith and Wesson to get the FBI contract so they fast tracked their .40 on the 9mm frame.

Steep pressure curve plus light frame lacking steel.......bad combination.

Lots of parts showed a tendency to break.

He should Google it or talk directly to Glock to find an answer.
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Old May 22, 2024, 07:54 PM   #12
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I thought the Glock 22 is a .40 caliber. ?

There is a 22 LR Glock, it’s the Glock 44. The Glock 22 is in 40SW. The Glock 40 is in 10mm. The Glock 45 is in 9mm. Good times.
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Old May 23, 2024, 10:12 AM   #13
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My Glock 22 will jam on the 2nd round fired with a full 15rd mag and one in the chamber.
Looks like I probably misunderstood you.

So do you have a Model 22 or a .22 caliber?

Either way there are solutions to your problem.
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Old May 23, 2024, 12:23 PM   #14
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Glocks are fine utilitarian combat handguns. No one can effectively argue otherwise. Sure, some don't care for the grip dimensions or angle, but for sheer accuracy, reliability, and ease of maintenance... Glocks are hard to beat as a sidearm issued to people who carry guns for a living. Glocks are a lot of things...

... but what they aren't are mythical fail-proof fool-proof creatures. Glocks do occasionally have feed issues. My agency issues G45s (effectively a black 19x). I had constant failure to feeds with one of the mags when it was first issued to me. I culled that mag and replaced it... issues stopped. It was a Glock branded mag, BTW. I occasionally see other random failures on the line. Most of the time it is a shooter induced failure to feed... like a combat reload and a FTF after the first shot indicating they didn't seat the magazine properly. But occasionally it's a firearm malfunction and not shooter error. They're fine handguns, but don't declare them to be something they are not.
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Old May 23, 2024, 12:43 PM   #15
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I honestly can't remember the last time I had center fire a semi-auto pistol that did not function. 22's yes; revolvers, yes. But not a center-fire pistol.

That's with Sig, Glock, S&W, Ruger and Beretta.
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Old May 23, 2024, 01:21 PM   #16
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@jmr40 that has been my experience as well. In fact my CZ P07 had had far fewer malfunctions in probably at least 9k-10k rounds than my issued G45 has had in about 1k. Of course most of those malfunctions in the Glock were that one bad magazine.

My biggest praise for Glock comes from the logistical ease of maintenance for agencies that issue handguns. You can train someone to service them in a day, and they will be fairly effective at it
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Old May 23, 2024, 05:34 PM   #17
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Glocks are fine utilitarian combat handguns. No one can effectively argue otherwise.
I could. They don’t meet my requirements. No manual safety is a dead end for me.
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Old May 23, 2024, 05:57 PM   #18
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No manual safety is a dead end for me.
Its also a requirement for the US military. Maybe its just a good idea??
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Old May 25, 2024, 07:25 AM   #19
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Have no experience--I use Glocks.
Well, that can be taken several ways.
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Old May 25, 2024, 07:33 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Biff Tannen View Post
I have heard that statistically, semi auto Handguns are more likely to jam on the first round or the last round in a magazine. I cannot find any data or statistics on this, and I was wondering what your experiences reflect. Thank you so much for commenting.
I doubt anyone has endeavored to actually conduct such a survey or tabulate such data. Most "statistics" are made up BTW.

From my personal observations shooting hundreds of matches, instructing thousands of students, being a magazine manufacturer, designer and tester...I'd say that most semi-auto gun malfunctions occur due to magazine issues. Heck, I have testified to that several times. Most of those, weak mag springs are the culprit. Now, weak mag springs can be due to adding an extension and using the original spring. They can also be due to ammo that results in a slide/bolt carrier velocity that is too high and that can be from a weak recoil spring or just ammo that is too hot. (Too weak for the combination). Mag springs can be too strong for a combination, but that is much less common.

Glocks are not immune either.
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Old May 25, 2024, 10:21 AM   #21
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Well, that can be taken several ways.
No.

We all know the truth.

(Even those reluctant to admit it.)

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Old May 25, 2024, 12:07 PM   #22
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Have no experience--I use Glocks.
Quote:
We all know the truth.
Yep, that's the way I took it. The truth. You have no experience, and so you use Glocks.
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Old May 25, 2024, 02:18 PM   #23
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Old May 25, 2024, 09:52 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Biff Tannen View Post
I have heard that statistically, semi auto Handguns are more likely to jam on the first round or the last round in a magazine. I cannot find any data or statistics on this, and I was wondering what your experiences reflect. Thank you so much for commenting.
My guess is this is mostly outdated, and caused by poor magazine design. Probably the spring and feed lip geometry if not perfect, tension would be just right in the middle. If I recall, old 1911 magazines added a dimple on the follower to help account for lack of spring tension on the last round, as an example.
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Old May 25, 2024, 10:21 PM   #25
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There are many reasons why Glock dominates the handgun market.........this article gives us a few.

From the article: "Glock also concentrated on making his weapon reliable over all else, and in a competition that allowed for twenty jams in ten thousand shots, his pistol only failed once."

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ig-sauer-23487
Why Glock dominates the police market? because they sold 30,000 units to NYPD way back when for $75 while the rest of us were paying $400
Money talks BS walks
Are they durable and easy to tear down, rebuild, etc. like an AR? Yep - and if they fit your hand, and you shoot them well, then by all means buy a dozen of them
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