What the heck went wron

[Dennisp]

Hi I'm new to this forum and I hope it is helpful to me. I have relaoded for rifles for years but have just started loading for a .45 ACP which for some reason is quite different for me. I thought I was doing OK until yesterday when this happened. I'm not sure what I did wrong. I was sure I didn't double charge any of the loads. I have showed and asked the same thing on a different forum. I seem to even be more confused with what to do or try. I've been told that it's a hot laod. i'm seated too deep, poor brass, head seperation dur to the chamber not being completely closed. Can someone here help me with where to go from here?

OK I was out shooting my new pistol. I was shooting 5 shot groups trying to find one my pistol liked. On the 20th shot I was hit in the face and the side of my nose was cut. When I found the brass this is what it looked like. It blew the bottom off. It looks like it distroyed my clip also. The spring and everything is flipped down in the bottom.

What went wrong? I was careful when I was reloading. This was 4.8 gr of Titegroup.

The pistol appears to be OK, but do I dare shoot it again without having it checked out.

I hope the pictures show up, they're not the best.











Its a Kimber CDP II ****om and I'm using 230 gr Laser Cast RN bullets The brass has been shoot 3 or 4 times if that. It was some once fired that I bought. I've shot the pistol three times. It may have only been its 2nd shooting. I've got the pistol apart now and have it under the magnifing glass. Everything look ok. I'm leaning toward a double charge also. Man, I'm so careful too. I'm not shure I like loading for the pistol. I even looked at the carefully before I seated the bullets.

Here's what I have loaded The book say for that bullet the COL is 1.245. The Max COL is 1.275 I was shooting 1.247. Another site said I could go down to 1.220 or below.




The one on the left is a dummy round seated at 1.220. The right is 1.247. The bullet is a Laser Cast 230g RN. The Case is above the seating lip on 1.220 load. I'm confused. I thought I researched this out but maybe not good enough. I thought I was being careful.

[2cooltoolz]

I don't know anything at all about reloading, but I'm glad you're OK. Welcome aboard..some knowledgeable reloaders will show up soon. Might want to start a new thread with the title ".45 reload blew up!" or something to catch ther eyes.

[CortJestir]

Welcome to TFL Dennis!

I, too, am glad you suffered only a minor cut on your nose (and possible loss of some ego) Glad you're OK.

I'm new to reloading so I won't purport to give you any sage advice. However, I'm sure once this thread gets moved to the Handloading and Reloading forum, you'll get some pretty good answers from the knowledgeable and experienced folks here. You'll probably even get a few before it gets moved...

[Smaug]

This should probably be in the Reloading forum. You'd get lots more response there.

It looks like either case head separation or a double charge.

One of the reasons I load single stange is so that I can look into the charged cases with a flashlight before seating the bullets to make sure there's no double or no-charged rounds.

It's hard to tell from the small pix, but it seems similar to some pix I've seen where reloads were shot from Glocks without full case separation after they were bulged.

[Shane Tuttle]

Welcome, Dennis. I haven't been a TFL rat for the past three years for nothing. This is a very good site to gather information and enjoy comraderie.

Whether it was a mistake or not I don't care. What I care about is that you're OK.

Now, if it does come up as a mistake my advice is this:

After you gather yourself, continue to take a good hard, look at what and why this happened. However, you may not ever get a clear cut answer. The most important thing to do from here is to be safe. The next most important thing IMHO is to get back in the saddle again. Use the fear as a tool, but don't let it overtake you.

I'm only making statements based on an observation of your post. You may have heard it before, but I'm still going to list them anyway so that you can double check your steps, alright?

1. Published load that you stated is the MAX load allowed. I know that your COAL was longer than the tested load, but using lead bullets has a unique way of spiking pressures in a hurry.

2. 90% of people will ardently claim that they were careful during reloading and swear that they checked ALL of their charges. I, BY NO MEANS, AM CALLING YOU A LIAR. What I'm saying is that we are humans. And humans make mistakes.

3. Hodgdon's TiteGroup powder is notorious for NOT filling cases well. The main reason is that a little goes a long way. Consider their other powder, WSF. The published load for it is 6.3gr. Taken into consideration that just because the weight is higher for a given load doesn't necessarily mean it fills the cartridge better, my point is you don't need much TiteGroup for a full house load. It's very easy to view a double charged case (especially .45ACP) and only think you charged it once.

The brass has been shoot 3 or 4 times if that. It was some once fired that I bought. I've shot the pistol three times. It may have only been its 2nd shooting.

4. This raises another flag. Do you know for a fact that the brass was once fired? Even reputable companies can't keep up with every single brass on its firing cycle. Granted, .45ACP brass typically lasts for several loadings. But since this wasn't virgin brass to start out with (I'm assuming you weren't there for it's first firing), I cast a degree of doubt the case's original conditon.

Another site said I could go down to 1.220 or below.

Some bullets will allow it. I'm loading Hornady JHP XTP. The design of the ogive allows me to load at 1.220". However, seeing the pic you have, I would stay away from this length. Your tested length appears fine. You might want to check to make sure the bullet isn't hitting the lands of the barrel when seated. CHECK THIS WITH A DUMMY ROUND OR AN OAL GAUGE.

5. I would double check your seating die is properly set up. It's possible that you have the die set improperly and not seating the bullet the way it should. During operation of a semi-auto, loaded rounds can take a beating from inertial forces. Also, when the round hits the throat of the barrel, the bullet can be pushed back further into the case. This is a common problem and results can be disastrous. You said on the 20th shot this happened and you were shooting 5 shot groups. Was this the last round in the magazine?

The pistol appears to be OK, but do I dare shoot it again without having it checked out.

Hope this helps out. Let us know what happens or if you have any questions.

Absolutely, NOT. If it were me, I'd either ship it to the manufacturer for inspection or have a well known competent gunsmith check things over. That's my take...

[Sport45]

What length are you loading those bullets? The one on the left, the dummy round, looks awful short to me. I wouldn't put it in my gun. I load 230gr LRN and 200gr SWC to 1.250". I've burnt a lot of Titegroup in my 1911's. It's a good powder and your charge doesn't sound excessive.

[Shane Tuttle]

What length are you loading those bullets?

He stated that it was 1.247"

[B.N.Real]

Every time you shoot those cases they get stressed.

If there is a burr from the extractor or that case hits something on the range that dents it,you could get a case failure.

Also,your dies have to be in good repair and clean.

You cannot let alot of lube get in them and make them sticky or you will do ungodly things to the cases.

I would check my cases alot more closely under a bright light before I reloaded them again and check my dies and clean them well.

Another thing that could cause a problem is if the case mouth is'nt getting enough resizing to hold the bullet securely.

I have recently read of people that never reshoot rounds that were already in the gun and then unloaded.

It seems that sometimes the bullet being inserted over and over into the mag can make the bullet shift deeper into the case.

I just read that on this forum.

So it was news to me.

Anyway,I am glad you were relatively uninjured and I hope you have one of those "A-HA!" moments and actually find out what happened.

Not knowing really stinks,especially when you like to shoot alot.

[Dennisp]

Sorry I didn't get back to anyone last night. Just after I posted this I was paged out to a 4 vehicle major accident just out of town.

Thank you all for thge warm welcome and believe it the only thing hurt is my ego.

I've had the gun checked out by a compatent gun smith and everything checks out Great! I'm going to pull all the bullets and double check my powder weights. I really think I made the all time Human mistake. Double charge. Trust me, I'm going to do things a little different from here on out with pistol reloading.

[Shane Tuttle]

I've had the gun checked out by a compatent gun smith and everything checks out Great! I'm going to pull all the bullets and double check my powder weights. I really think I made the all time Human mistake. Double charge. Trust me, I'm going to do things a little different from here on out with pistol reloading.

I think you gave the best advice to yourself. Let us know what you find. I'm interested to see if you did double charge or if there may be defects in the components.

Also glad your gun has been checked OK. All you need to do now is buy a quality magazine and you're good to go...

[rn22723]

First of all 4.8gr of TG is way too much for a lead bullet! Grante that 4.8 is max load for a 230gr FMJ bullet and Hodgdon does list it as max for 230gr Lead Bullet. But, in my experience the lower end of the spectrum is much safer. TG being a low charge wt powder as pointed out can be hard to detect double charges with.

A prudent reloader works up loads that arrived at by starting at the lower charge wt and working up the load in incremental charges of powder looking for function, accuracy, and safety. You just do not start at the top and call it good. Too many problems can occur.



I would suggest you look at cheaper bullets then laster cast. Google Missouri Bullets, Mastercast, Dardus bullets for better prices......

[Dennisp]

First off, I did not start at the top My Hornady book says 4.2-5.3 for that bullet and powder. I was at 4.8. according to My manual, I was where I was suppose to be. I've sence looked at several manuals and thay vary quite a bit as to what is Max and what is Min. I am going to back it way down and see what happens.

[Slamfire]

The most common cause of a blown case head is excessive pressures, and that is what I suspect happened.

However some other issues.

I can't see the maker of the case. If it was AMERC, they make poor quality cases, and maybe that case blew due to a brass flaw.

One other possibility, is that your brass was cleaned in contact with ammonia.

It has been well understood for over 100 years that ammonia causes “season cracking” in brass.

[Dennisp]

The Brass is Hornady Brass. I didn't know that about ammonia, but I haven't used it on them. Maybe it was done before I bought it.

[MidwestShooter]

What type of press are you using? Do you have a .45 ACP case gauge? If not, get one. I highly doubt the case was bad and you deprimed, sized, charged, seated, and crimped and didn't notice it. I have reloaded 100,000 + .45 and never once had a case fail. I am sure it was too much powder. If you use a case gauge, you have one final verification on each round prior to dropping the fireing pin.
I have used Tightgroup a little and can say I don't care for it. Burns way fast. I only use VihtaVuori powders now for the most part.
Lastly i wouldn't use lead bullets for anything. There are no safe lead levels. Plated bullets are cheap enough. What is your health worth? I buy Barry Bullets 30K at a time and they work great.

Good luck

[rn22723]

Knock Knock the Hornady lead bullet is a SWAGED LEAD BULLET not a hard case Bullet! Well, you do what you do, but any resposible loader does not pluck a load out a book. You work up the load period. No excuses!

[rn22723]

Lead is just fine for loading. You are more at risk from the exposure to the contaminants from tumbling then shooting. Good hand washing and do not eat or smoke while loading will keep you just fine. I have been shooting lead bullets for upwards of 27 years, and my lead level is just fine!

[Powderman]

You shot a double charge.

What happened to your magazine and pistol is a tribute to John Browning's genius--the pressure vented right down the mag well.

Now, to reloading:

1. I have found that the best way to get myself out of trouble when loading .45 is to set my seater up to seat to the same OAL as a round of factory ball ammunition. That goes for ALL bullets.

2. Make sure you are using a good crimp, too--should be taper crimped, right around .470, measured at the case mouth.

3. If you are using a progressive reloader, check the powder drop to make sure nothing is interfering with the powder flow.

4. One of the reasons your pistol--and you--are OK is because the .45 ACP is a relatively low pressure cartridge. The SAAMI max for this round is 21000 c.u.p.; most loads function around 17,000.

As for brass life, I woudn't worry too much--I have .45 cases that are well past their 40th reloading!!!

Good luck, stay safe, and shoot often.

[wncchester]

" I really think I made the all time Human mistake. Double charge."

Yep.

Listen to Powderman, he ain't guessing.

No .45 ACP case is going to have a head seperation due to times it's reloaded, those heads blow off from too high a pressure. No book load will do that, ergo, it was an overload. Probably a double.

If you're using a progressive there is little way of knowing what's happening to your charges. If you are using a single stage, or turret, charge all cases in a block. THEN hold the block up so you can see into the cases to check the powder column for uniformity. Can't see tiny differences but you can't miss emptys or double charges!

[dahermit]

OK I was out shooting my new pistol.

What went wrong? I was careful when I was reloading. This was 4.8 gr of Titegroup.

New pistol. Is it a used gun? If it is, was the throat cut too deep?

The two things I would consider first, are the throat. And, the possiblity of a double charge.

[Dennisp]

Thanks Guys you have been a huge help. Even rn22723 who appears to be extremely critical but i'm sure it's all good. If you don't use a book how do you knoiw where to start? I suppose everyone one is different, but I thought that was what manulas were for? Silly Me!

I am using a RCBS Rock Chucker Press. No Turret.

I might be checking out a different powder. Win 231? I've had a couple people mention that is what they use.

DP

[Dennisp]

brand new Kimber

[Jim Watson]

My source shows 4.8 gr Titegroup as maximum for a 230 grain lead bullet; I normally loaded 4.5 which got me 812 fps. A maximum load will not blow up a gun, if everything else is even close to spec, there is a good safety margin.

You might have had a double charge. I never shot but the one pound of Titegroup because it is dark and dense and hard to see down in the bottom of the case. I don't know for sure what 9.6 grains of TG will do to a gun and I don't want to find out. Getting an overload less than an even double charge would call for some unusual loading procedures with modern equipment but I guess it might happen.

Setting the bullet back to much less than the desired OAL will increase pressures a lot. Can you push a bullet back in the brass by pressing it against the edge of your bench with maybe 40-50 pounds effort?

[rn22723]

To the OP, it is painfully obvious that you are new to reloading. And, if take time to learn things......yeah manuals are good and I got about 7 or 8 and some advanced reloading books.

But, Hornady and Speer have their SWAGED LEAD BULLETS list in their manuals. They are softer then hard case lead bullets! If you want good Hard Cast Lead bullet data look at getting the Lyman 49th.

And, prudent reloading requires people who pay attention and cross reference their loading data.

You work up loads that are safe, reliable and accurate. This requires a stair step approach.

And, I suspect you had a double charge.

231 is a grear powder with the 45ACP.

[Shane Tuttle]

To the OP, it is painfully obvious that you are new to reloading. And, if take time to learn things......yeah manuals are good and I got about 7 or 8 and some advanced reloading books.
And, prudent reloading requires people who pay attention and cross reference their loading data.

Also, an experienced reloader will know that even a max load powder doesn't necessarily mean max pressures were met...especially when the OP stated his OAL was LONGER than published data he used.

Whatever the case may be, being critical of another sometimes backfires. I think you made your point and it appears the OP has learned from the experience.

We all live in a glass house. Let's move on, shall we?

I might be checking out a different powder. Win 231? I've had a couple people mention that is what they use.

I think Win231/HP38 (same as Win231 essentially) is a fantastic powder for .45. It provides a softer felt recoil for me. I use 5.0-5.2gr of HP38 with a 230grFMJ. Remember, this load recipe is for copper jacketed bullets only. But, it gives you an idea how little you really need to use.