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Old August 1, 2008, 02:02 PM   #1
mniesen89
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7.62 in .308 die problem!!

I'm trying to resize some Lake City 7.62 in my Lee .308 resizing die and I can't seem to get the decaping pin to go pop out the primer, also when the cse goes about 3/4 of the way in its gets extremely tight?? whats going on?
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Old August 1, 2008, 02:16 PM   #2
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I just realized these are berdan primed...DUHHH!!! ANyone know how to "easily" remove these?
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Old August 1, 2008, 02:38 PM   #3
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I use an ice-pick or needle-point I turned on the lathe. Stick it through the primer face, just off center, and pry out. Apply band-aids as needed after use.

Note that Berdan primers are different from our Boxer primers in both size and condtruction. The pocket is too large for our Boxer primers and the Berdan primers dont have an anvil in the primer. The anvil is in the case as part of the primer cup. You will have to adapt your primer seating mechanism and buy the Berdan primers, which are only expensive.

DO NOT try to seat Boxer primers into a Berdan case. They usually will not fire, but it is not unheard of (pun.)

Pops
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Old August 1, 2008, 02:40 PM   #4
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yeah pops, just as I figured, going to be a pain in the &^%. I got 200rds of the stuff and am thinking I might as well ditch'm.
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Old August 1, 2008, 04:38 PM   #5
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Berdan primed cases are only good or one thing. Taking up space in a bucket and going to the recyclers.
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Old August 1, 2008, 04:56 PM   #6
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Is all nato 7.62 Berdan primed?
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Old August 1, 2008, 06:38 PM   #7
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All my lake city is boxer primed. Are you sure the primers aren't staked in place (fairly common with machine gun ammo)

The best way I've heard of depriming berdan primed brass is by filling the case with water and inserting a wooden dowel into the case and forcing it down. I usually hear of a drill press being used for this. DON'T TURN ON THE DRILL MOTOR.

You also need berdan primers or a special tool to chamfer the primer pocket to accept boxer primers.

IMHO it is only worth the trouble if boxer primed cases are not available
(ie old C&R guns, etc)
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Old August 1, 2008, 10:17 PM   #8
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Hey folks,

I never had any Lake City brass of any caliber that was Berdan primed. Is mniesen89 sure his brass is Lake City, or did something just go over my head?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
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Old August 1, 2008, 10:33 PM   #9
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I think the easiest way to tell is to look down into the case with a bright light/sunshine and look to see if it has a single flash hole in the center (boxer) or two holes side by side (berdan).

I've seen some ammoe with both the single hole and two smaller holes on eiither side. I always assumed it was berdan primed but I never tried to de cap it
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Old August 1, 2008, 10:51 PM   #10
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Well I only see one hole, but they are definitely LC 74 brass with the obvious Nato headstamp. ISC,what do you mean staked in place? And how do I remove a stacked primer?
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Old August 2, 2008, 12:45 AM   #11
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You can deprime berdan with water & a dowel, put it in a shellholder on the table etc and use a hammer on it. You will get wet. But why?!

LC is all boxer primed and the press should pop em out fairly easily unless, it was MG brass, or you didn't use enough lube. Or you may have a light duty press?! My rockchucker press has no problemos.
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Old August 2, 2008, 07:41 AM   #12
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staked/crimped primers look like this if anyone is unsure what I was talking about:



the one on the left is staked, the others are crimped.
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Old August 2, 2008, 11:20 AM   #13
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Mine are definitly D. I dont know if lee pacesetter .308 dies are considered light duty but I've tried a hammer and nail and still can't get the primer out.
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Old August 2, 2008, 02:24 PM   #14
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Hey mniesen89,

First you said you were having difficulty sizing and depriming some Lake City 7.62 brass. Next you said the brass was Berdan primed, and later you said it was definitely Lake City 74 brass and you only saw one flash hole in the bottom of the case when looking down the neck. Lastly, you said you could not get the primer out when using a nail and hammer.

From what all you have said, I would suspect you are working with some Lake City 74 brass that has a pretty good crimp on the primers (which are Boxer). As I said earlier, I never knew of any Lake City brass with Berdan primers, and in my experience, I have always been able to deprime Lake City brass with Lyman or RCBS sizing dies. After depriming them, I have never bothered to ream any crimping out of Lake City brass. However, I have heard other folks say they needed to deprime crimped primer brass with a special tool that is stronger with hardened steel. Perhaps your Lee sizing die is simply not up to the task of depriming crimped primers.

I am pretty certain a finish nail is just too soft to punch a crimped primer out if you cannot do it with your sizing and depriming die. A regular sizing/depriming die from Lyman or RCBS will have a stronger punch than what you can get from a finish nail. While I do not know offhand what special tool you can get to deprime this brass, I am sure someone on the forum will be able to suggest one.

Lake City brass is good brass, and I use it in 7.62, 30-06, and the .223 versions. Again, I have always been able to size and deprime mine with my Lyman and RCBS dies, and maybe they are a bit tougher than the Lee die. In any case, you can get a special tool to punch the primer out and then ream out the crimp if necessary. Once they are deprimed and the crimp gone, they can last a long time. Don't throw them away - they are good brass.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
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Old August 2, 2008, 02:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
I'm trying to resize some Lake City 7.62
Quote:
I just realized these are berdan primed...DUHHH!!!
Quote:
All my lake city is boxer primed.
In fact, all LC brass is Boxer primed.

Sounds to me like you have some brass with undersized flash holes. If you do manage to get a decapping punch into the flash hole, the decapping pin may stick. Cut one open and find out if the decapping pin in your dies will fit in the flash hole. If so, then just keep pushing on the press handle, and the primer will come out. It is very likely the ammo was fired in a mchine gun, so it may be waaaaay oversized, adding to the force required to tresize it, so make sure it is well lubed. Primer pockets will have to be swaged or reamed before re-priming the brass.
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Old August 2, 2008, 03:57 PM   #16
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Hey guys, sorry for the confusion, I'm new to the military brass side of reloading.As soon as it seemed I found an answer to one of questions another would arise hence all the wird comments.

I dont have a problem resizing any of the brass as I have taken out the decapping pin and the brass goes all the way into the die with no problems.

The only other problem I can think of is that like many of you have said maybe the flash hole is really small. I've resized plenty of remington/winchester brass with no problems, so I know its not the dies.


I believe it is machine gun fired because its got the distinctive dent a 240B leaves.

I'm in the process of doing some research in looking for a derpiming tool,so maybe that will resolve my problem.

Thanks for all the helpful info guys!
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Old August 2, 2008, 06:58 PM   #17
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This is what you need:



Lee Universal Decapping die (All calibres) $32

An absolute must for those who do not clean cases before reloading. Cases need not be clean nor lubed when using this die. Tough, almost unbreakable decapper easily removes crimped in primers. One size fits all.
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Old December 3, 2008, 07:44 PM   #18
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Berdan deprimer

Anyone have a great and simple way to do this under $35?
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Old December 3, 2008, 08:01 PM   #19
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First off, I've never seen any lake city brass thats not boxer primed. Sometimes they are crimped in pretty hard. I also dont think you will find any LC brass that has undersize primer holes.

Anyway, the cheapest way to remove the primers, without damaging anything it to have a rod that fits the neck as tight as you can get it, The fill the case with hydrolic oil, start the rod into the neck and wack it with a mallet. The hydrolice effect will push out the primer if the rod fits tight enough.

I use this method when I brought an SKS home from Vietnam, at the time you couldnt find any boxer primed 7.62X39 brass, so to reload it, I took the primer out using the above method, then carefully pried out the star inside of the new primer, and primed the case. It worked to a point but the SKS had a crappy chamber and screwed up the cases anyway. DONT TRY THIS AT HOME.
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Old December 3, 2008, 08:34 PM   #20
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Just buy one of these from Midway for $4.49. I've used one for years and Lee will replace it for free if you break it.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=636747
The easiest way to take out crimped primers from military brass.
You can use your deburring tool to remove some of the crimp so the new primers will go in easier.
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Old December 4, 2008, 05:46 AM   #21
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That's exactly what I would recommend. Also, if you think you have tight flashholes, that is unlikely in LC as they are drilled to military spec. However, the drilled flashholes are sometimes imperfectly centered, so you need to thread that tool's pin into the flashhole for sure before you take the mallet to it. You could also have some cases that, with your prior efforts, have been deformed a bit. The solution is a flashhole deburring tool that cleans it up on the inside and slightly chamfers the inside of the flashhole which makes getting the pin in a little easier. A tool for that is here, should you need it?
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Old December 4, 2008, 08:14 AM   #22
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I think everyone above has given you the solution and answer. I load a lot of military cases(I live by Ft Bragg and i just retired so they are plentiful) here is what I do:

1. I de-prime them with a Lee universal de-primer. These are bullet proof.
2. I un-swage the primer cap with a Dillon primer pocket de-swager but you can use several other methods. RCBS make one thats fits on your press and I have used a Case neck de-burring tool to get rid of the swage(Not recomended)
3. I FL re-size them no mater what(Range pickup or shot in my guns)
4. Then I do what I would normally do to brass to prep it to reload.
5. By the 5th or 6th reloading I usually have to re-anneal the neck. Getting them back to spec and shooting them in a Semi auto works the brass.

On a side note, Picked up 7.62 brass will have more than likly been shot in a GPMG so it will have to be trimmed. A lot of 5.56 that is going around was shot in a SAW so it will be over sized also. I use a Trim die to cut them down to length, I think its faster in the long run and I don't have powered trimer yet. The reason is these are open bolt weapons and really abuse the brass.

Once prepped the brass will last a long time.

Another side note, be advised that Military Brass is loaded to Mil spec. That means the ID and sometimes the OD are not the same. You will get signs of High pressure closer to max than with Civilian brass so load accordingly. A Chronograph is a good tool here and I use mine all the time when doing load work up. You reach the velocity you want before you know it. When primers start to get flat and the bolt sticks you will be no where near max in the book you are useing to load from.


US Military brass is all Boxer primed now and has been since at least WW2( I have a bunch of 30 cal LC 42 brass that is still fine). Its kind of weird that Berdan priming was inveted in the USA and Boxer briming was inveted in Europe but we have switched. I believe that all NATO brass is boxer primed(You can tell NATO ammo by the little + in a circle on the head stamp). When I was in OEF and OIF we had a lot of British ammo. It was Boxer primed also so was French ammo. Berdan primed brass is good for nothing in my view:barf:. The process to reload it is not worth the trouble unless you have a gun that you cannot get Boxer primed ammo for or make brass from something else, and you would have to dig for that now. I do a lot of work in Africa and down there you get a mix of all kinds of brass. Some of it very old. I have seen 303 british ammo from the 20's down there and it was Berdan primed it shot fine.

Good luck...............Sam
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Old December 4, 2008, 08:27 AM   #23
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I was going to say...if you pay more then $9.99 for a universal decapping die you got ripped off.
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Old December 8, 2008, 12:49 AM   #24
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You really gotta crank down on the collet for the Lee dies to pop out the persistent crimped primers, but it should work. If not, get a decap pin for a decap die (forget the die body, you don't need it) and use a hammer to tap out the primers with the shell in a shell holder. $2 fix. I wouldn't call this die set "light duty" it's just that the decap pin is held by a npt collet that REALLY has gotta be snug. But the beauty of the Lee setup is the fact that if you find a berdan it won't break your decap pin, it'll just push it back (no matter how tight you get it).

You will MOST LIKELY need to do something about the crimp, though. All the 7.62 I have dealt with needed a decrimp. I use a RCBS swager, but suspect the better tool may be the Dillon swager. But a chamfer tool will take it off, too.

If you just can't wait for a decap pin, you can use the easyx pin from your sizing die to tap it out with a hammer, and buy a new decap pin from Lee.
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