Can you shoot a S&W 38 in a 38 Special gun? - Page 2

HiBC · March 8, 2021, 02:03 PM

I'm just going through the other end of this.
A Friend's Grandfather died and she inherited his Colt Police Positive in 38 New Police. Essentially,the same cartidge as 38 S+W.
My crotchety Old Gunsmith LGS showed "Permanently Closed" on the web page
when I looked up the phone number. That was the only shop old enough for hope for old stock.
So much for that. New factory ammo? I don't think they will tear down a 9mm line to make a run of 38 S+W anytime soon.Especially since Remington,Partisan Pervi and Buffalo Bore are the only loads I found current.The Buffalo Bore is advertised as abot 1100 or 1200 fps.Definitely too hot to provide for Grandpas near 100 yr old gun.Loading data shows about 650 fps.

The path I chose to help her with a source of ammo for Grandpa's gun involvd buying 200 PPU brass from Gafs...Starline shows a 500 rd minimum.They do make it.
I found an old Ideal .360 mold. and some Pacific dies.

Its all arrived lately. Scrounging this stuff up is neither cheap nor easy.

I'm getting at this: IMO,don't try to "make do" with rare and valuable old ammo.It won't serve you all that well,and it really valuable to someone who has a gun that only shoots that ammo.

I don't know if h is still active,but "The Old Western Scrounger might be interested in it.

tangolima · March 8, 2021, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiBC

I'm just going through the other end of this.

A Friend's Grandfather died and she inherited his Colt Police Positive in 38 New Police. Essentially,the same cartidge as 38 S+W.

My crotchety Old Gunsmith LGS showed "Permanently Closed" on the web page

when I looked up the phone number. That was the only shop old enough for hope for old stock.

So much for that. New factory ammo? I don't think they will tear down a 9mm line to make a run of 38 S+W anytime soon.Especially since Remington,Partisan Pervi and Buffalo Bore are the only loads I found current.The Buffalo Bore is advertised as abot 1100 or 1200 fps.Definitely too hot to provide for Grandpas near 100 yr old gun.Loading data shows about 650 fps.

The path I chose to help her with a source of ammo for Grandpa's gun involvd buying 200 PPU brass from Gafs...Starline shows a 500 rd minimum.They do make it.

I found an old Ideal .360 mold. and some Pacific dies.

Its all arrived lately. Scrounging this stuff up is neither cheap nor easy.

I'm getting at this: IMO,don't try to "make do" with rare and valuable old ammo.It won't serve you all that well,and it really valuable to someone who has a gun that only shoots that ammo.

I don't know if h is still active,but "The Old Western Scrounger might be interested in it.

You may want to measure the throat diameter and slug the bore. I have the same revolver. The best bullet for it is actually 9mm (0.355"). I still have most of the 0.361" cast bullets I bought trying to handload for it.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

AK103K · March 8, 2021, 05:03 PM

I got into the 38 S&W-38/200 a few years back when I picked up an old Enfield for a decent price.

38 S&W isn't easily found in most shops around here, and when I bought that Enfield, it took me four more stops on the way home, before I found a shop that had any, and they only had one box, and it was Remington "Target" (must be a joke), at $35/50. And that was before the panic.

Starline makes brass, its fairly cheap and readily available. Matts makes two versions of the British 200 grain bullets, and they work well too.

I have a bunch of 38 and 357 S&W revolvers, and none of mine will chamber a 38 S&W round. Ive been told that Remington brass "might", depending on the gun, but it doesn't in any of mine, or at least the brass from that box I bought doesn't.

If you are looking at one of these guns, I would suggest you take a 38 Special round along, or if your in a shop, that you ask them to see if it will chamber one. If it does, Id walk. There still seem to be plenty of unmolested guns around to have to deal with that.

I also have two of the British S&W Victorys in the caliber, and they are the better choice if you want a gun in this caliber. The Enfield shoots OK, but its crude compared to the Smiths.

All three of mine prefer the .361 diameter bullets. I have tried 158 grain .357 LSWC's in them, and at 10-15 yards, they seem to shoot OK, but they also shoot low to POA of the sights. Part of that is probably velocity and lighter bullet too.

The typical 146 grain US 38 S&W load also seemed to shoot a bit low in the Enfield when I shot it. I haven't loaded that since, nor have I shot it in the S&W's.

If you reload, the cost and availability issues are basically rendered moot. Once you have one gun in the caliber, don't be surprised if they start to multiply. Very pleasant and fun to shoot too.

Dave T · March 8, 2021, 06:10 PM

It never ceases to amaze me why so many people are willing to try and shoot ammunition, not in the proper caliber and never intended to be fired in some particular firearm.

44 Mag/44 Spc/44 Rus and 357 Mag/38 Spc/38 Long & Short aside, they are all based on the same parent cartridge, just longer and longer versions. People try shooting 380s in 9mms. They try shooting 38 Super in 357s. And here we have people shooting or trying to shoot 38 S&W cartridges in 38 S&W Special revolvers.

In these days of near zero ammunition availability, trading for the right ammunition for your gun is so much more reasonable and such good sense. Why on earth try to fit a square peg in a round hole, or more to the point if your square peg does fit in that round hole...it still isn't supposed to be there.

Good grief!

Dave

SIGSHR · March 8, 2021, 08:24 PM

In my reloading days I found a HBWC over 2.7 grains of Bullseye worked great in my prewar No.2 MkI.

pete2 · March 9, 2021, 10:53 AM

If the 38 S&W round will fit in the chamber of your .38 Special gun it will shoot. I didn't think it would fit but tried some .38 in a .38 Special gun, it went in the chamber. Prolly won't fit in older guns chambered for .38 Special tho.

AK103K · March 9, 2021, 11:32 AM

Something doesnt sound right here. What kind of 38 Special guns are you getting the 38 S&W's to chamber in?

I just grabbed a handful of 38 S&W's, both R/P and Starline brass, and tried again in three different S&W's, two 38 specials (model 10's) and a 357mag (model 19), and not one round of the Starline will even begin to chamber, and the R/P will start in about 1/8" and then stops cold.

ballardw · March 9, 2021, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave T

It never ceases to amaze me why so many people are willing to try and shoot ammunition, not in the proper caliber and never intended to be fired in some particular firearm.

44 Mag/44 Spc/44 Rus and 357 Mag/38 Spc/38 Long & Short aside, they are all based on the same parent cartridge, just longer and longer versions. People try shooting 380s in 9mms. They try shooting 38 Super in 357s. And here we have people shooting or trying to shoot 38 S&W cartridges in 38 S&W Special revolvers.

And .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R magnum, .327 Federal

.45 Schofield, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .460 S&W

And I've held off with: Many things can be done once.

FlyFish · March 9, 2021, 05:32 PM

I have one revolver chambered in .38 S&W, a S&W Model 32-1. Because of that, I had two boxes of Remington .38 S&W ammo on the shelf several years ago when this question came up on another forum. I also have 19 different revolvers chambered in .38 Special or .357 Magnum. As is the case here, there were different opinions and experiences regarding whether the .38 S&W would chamber in .38/.357 revolvers, which led me to test all of them. Every chamber of every cylinder in every one of those revolvers easily chambered the Remington .38 S&W ammo.

Now, I think it very unlikely that that many revolvers, from a number of different manufacturers, made over a period of some five decades or more, all had oversized chambers, which leads me to two conclusions: (1) there's no question that some brand or brands of .38 S&W ammo will chamber in some (perhaps all) .38/.357 revolvers, and (2) Remington .38 S&W ammo appears to be slightly undersized for the caliber (which I've heard others claim).

All of that said, I never have and never will fire incorrect ammo in any of my firearms, regardless of whether it chambers, and I would strongly advise others to only use the specific type of ammo that the firearm is chambered for, no matter what others may tell them is OK.

gwpercle · March 11, 2021, 05:27 PM

I have three 38 specials , S&W J frame , S&W K frame and a Colt Police Positive Special and two 357 magnums
S&w N frame and Ruger Blackwawk .

I also have a 38 S&W top break with a box factory ammo.

The 38 S&W would not completely chamber in any of the 38 special or 357 Magnum revolvers ... All would go into the chamber and stop about 1/2 way in ... a decent press with my thumb and they did not go in any farther ... not one would seat completely.

The Colt Police Positive Special left about 1/4" of case protruding... being so old I thought it might chamber one ...but it did not .

Bottom line is none of my 5 38/357 would fully chamber a 38S&W .
Gary

pete2 · March 11, 2021, 06:20 PM

Just for giggles, i tried 3 different factory loads (all old to very old) in 3 of my 38s and one 357, 2 old guns and 2 newish ones, none fit either gun. The gun and ammo I tried that did work was at Bass Pro, new ammo, new gun.

AK103K · March 11, 2021, 06:35 PM

What gun did you try and what ammo?

I tried them in my newish 686+, and the same result as the others.

As I said earlier, Ive been told that factory R&P is a bit undersized and "might" go, but my reloaded R&P brass wont.

Unless you have a 38spl with very generous chambers, which probably isnt good anyway, and wouldn't be good for your 38spl brass either, Im not seeing them chambering.

The problem with the 38S&W's that were bored out so the 38spls would work, tend to cause the brass to swell and split, and there's a reason for that. Its the same reason a 38S&W shouldn't chamber in a 38spl.

**44 AMP** · March 12, 2021, 12:59 AM

One thing to consider, all factory ammo is slightly UNDER the published specs (which generally are the maximum allowed dimensions).

they MAY be slightly under the minimum dimension specs, to ensure chambering in guns with min spec chambers.

Any variation is possible due to the range of tolerances on the ammo and on the chambers. A .38 S&W should not fit in a .38 Special chamber, and most of the time, they won't, and sometimes they will.

If it chambers, it will fire. The oversize bullet squeezes down the barrel just fine. The low pressure of the .38 S&W does not overstrain the gun.

For over a century there has been a lot more .38 Special ammo than .38S&W. Even today with "nothing" available, you're much, much more likely to get your hands on .38 Special before you find any .38S&W.

SO, shooting .38 S&W in a .38 Special gun that it fits in, while mechanically safe, is BARKING STUPID!!! It's a WASTE of a scarce commodity, and money, as well. There's a lot of folks out there with guns that will only shoot .38S&W who would likely pay well for some ammo, or even trade you .38Spl for it.

darkgael · March 17, 2021, 07:08 AM

Sorry about the bad math on my part earlier.

Quote:

....numbers of the British S&W 380/200 revolvers became available dealers would ream out the chambers and sell them as 38 Specials. That led to bulged and cracked 38 Special

Since the .38 Special is smaller in diameter than the .38 S&W, I wonder what they were thinking.
(And this from a guy who made his own math mistake)

AK103K · March 17, 2021, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkgael

I wonder what they were thinking.

$$$$

Nanuk · March 17, 2021, 09:43 AM

I have an old H&R 38S&W snubby that my dad picked up in the 1960's. Everytime I saw a box of ammo I picked it up. now I have about 400 rounds of factory ammo. someday I will get dies.

SIGSHR · March 17, 2021, 10:00 AM

Tried some old Remington 38 S&Ws in one of my S&W M-19s- no go.

AK103K · March 17, 2021, 11:26 AM

Keep an eye out on eBay for the dies. I got a set of what look to be unused RCBS "Cowboy" 38S&W dies for around $25 with free shipping.

HiBC · March 17, 2021, 04:01 PM

Prices on any reloading equiptment on E-bay are high right now.
Yes,I've seen dies listed for $25,but with 5 more days bidding time. Price goes up dramatically in the final hours of bidding.

I did find,and have received,a nice,pristine set of old Pacific 38 S+W dies that were somewhere in the $50 range. Sets of Lee's MIGHT be found at MSRP+
But most auctions are running the prices up.Lee dies might bring $80-$90 used,

Lee;s cheapest little bench mount C-press and the hand presses are approaching $100.

The Lyman 311284 mold,a 30 cal 214 gr that was designed to work well for the Krag came up. Actually,one two cav and a couple of single cav.

No one has new ones in stock,that I found. I do have a Krag "Sporter carbine?"
I've been wanting cast bullets for. It seems a good idea to have a cast bullet center fire rifle I can burn 4895,etc in. I have fine stash of wheel weights.

So I groaned and took the one-time $100 pain to win bid. Seems at least twice what I'd ordinarily pay. But the mold and the Krag together make an "outfit" Its done. Should arive soon.

Alan0354 · March 17, 2021, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Irwin

Chances are they simply won't fit in the .38 Special cylinder.

The .38 S&W uses a fatter case and a slightly larger bullet than the .38 Special.

If your chambers are sloppy, or if the cases are undersized, and you can fit them into your gun, yes, you can shoot them.

You may get leading from the larger bullet, but the .38 S&W operates at significantly less pressure than the .38 Special.

One stupid and ignorant question. If the bullet is slightly larger and less pressure, might the bullet get stuck in the barrel?

Now that could be very dangerous.

HiBC · March 17, 2021, 04:38 PM

Without being judgemental...

The reloading data I have looked at is generally in the 650 fps range.

Now,I'm sure that is conservative for the age and varied designs of these guns. Some are break top old S+W's. Its wise to be gentle.

That said,from my Cowboy Action Shooting phase,the gamers downloaded to the minimum that would go "bang" . I leaned toward replicating a full black powder level "Doing Business" load,in smokeless. I'm not a gamer.
Its the gamers who are most likely to be beating on a squib rod trying to drive out a stuck bullet.

However, the general discusion rule of thumb was about 650 fps to be sure the bullet cleared the barrel. Squibbing the bore plugged was a low end limitation.

Alan makes a good point. An OS bullet combined with cylinder gap leakage might lead to a bulged barrel.

I'm certainly not going to pursue hot rodding my friends old Colt DA solid frame Colt Police Positive.
I'm not going to consider the 1100 to 1200 fps Buffalo Bore ammo.

I do wonder if a specimen of the solid frame Colt from around the 1920's? (speculated) in good shape would be up to loads in the 800 fps range from folks expert in these guns)

If so,I feel better about the reliabilty of a little more powder.

Besides,I think its her only gun. If she DID need to use it,800 fps would give a touch more penetration

But I DO NOT want to beat the gun up.

**Mike Irwin** · March 19, 2021, 09:41 AM

"One stupid and ignorant question. If the bullet is slightly larger and less pressure, might the bullet get stuck in the barrel?

Now that could be very dangerous. "

Not a stupid question at all.

The difference in bullet diameter isn't that much -- .003 to .005 (.357 nominal for .38 Special, .361 nominal for .38 S&W)...

But .38 S&W bullets tend to be, in my experience, quite soft so MAY be more prone to leading.

As for getting stuck in the bore, I wouldn't be concerned about that at all.

Maximum pressure for the .38 S&W is about 14,500 psi, which isn't that much different from the max pressure for .38 Special, 17,500 psi.

But, those are max pressures -- working pressures can be some thousands of PSI less.

Additionally, there are many .38 Special loads that develop pressure bands very similar to those of the .38 S&W.

But, to stick a bullet in the bore of a .38 Special you're generally looking at the equivalent of a squib load -- probably in the 5,000 psi range or less.

So, I'd say that there's no real worry about sticking a bullet if using any decent factory load.

gwpercle · March 19, 2021, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkgael

Sorry about the bad math on my part earlier.

Since the .38 Special is smaller in diameter than the .38 S&W, I wonder what they were thinking.
(And this from a guy who made his own math mistake)

They were thinking " we can make a quick buck by selling all these guns as 38 specials" !
38 S&W wasn't that popular . Few reloaded so the swollen cases didn't bother them and at the low 38 special pressure , a crack in the brass case now and then wasn't a problem .
When I started rloading in the 1960's I knew only one person who reloaded and he was a police officer .
Gary

**44 AMP** · March 19, 2021, 08:08 PM

Quote:

One stupid and ignorant question. If the bullet is slightly larger and less pressure, might the bullet get stuck in the barrel?

Uncle Nick covered this pretty well, the bullets aren't that much bigger, they're generally lead (and soft, not hard alloys) and the pressure difference isn't an issue because while less then the Special, its still well above the danger point of risking a squib.

Quote:

Since the .38 Special is smaller in diameter than the .38 S&W, I wonder what they were thinking.

Quote:

They were thinking " we can make a quick buck by selling all these guns as 38 specials" !

Actually, I think they were thinking, "lets convert these guns to shoot ammo that people can actually get, so maybe someone will buy them off us, and we don't get stuck with them forever...."

remember that the reaming done to the .38S&W cylinders didn't touch the .38 S&W chamber, it was done to open up the cylinder in front of the .38 S&W to accept the longer .38Special case.

Hdonly · March 29, 2021, 12:57 PM

Not exactly in line with the OP's thread. I had the forcing cone split on an old S&W .38 special pre-model 10. I found a new in the raw 38 S&W CTG barrel for dirt cheap. Replaced my bad barrel with it. Since the barrel is only very slightly larger, the gun still shoots very accurately.

March 8, 2021, 02:03 PM	#26
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I'm just going through the other end of this. A Friend's Grandfather died and she inherited his Colt Police Positive in 38 New Police. Essentially,the same cartidge as 38 S+W. My crotchety Old Gunsmith LGS showed "Permanently Closed" on the web page when I looked up the phone number. That was the only shop old enough for hope for old stock. So much for that. New factory ammo? I don't think they will tear down a 9mm line to make a run of 38 S+W anytime soon.Especially since Remington,Partisan Pervi and Buffalo Bore are the only loads I found current.The Buffalo Bore is advertised as abot 1100 or 1200 fps.Definitely too hot to provide for Grandpas near 100 yr old gun.Loading data shows about 650 fps. The path I chose to help her with a source of ammo for Grandpa's gun involvd buying 200 PPU brass from Gafs...Starline shows a 500 rd minimum.They do make it. I found an old Ideal .360 mold. and some Pacific dies. Its all arrived lately. Scrounging this stuff up is neither cheap nor easy. I'm getting at this: IMO,don't try to "make do" with rare and valuable old ammo.It won't serve you all that well,and it really valuable to someone who has a gun that only shoots that ammo. I don't know if h is still active,but "The Old Western Scrounger might be interested in it. Last edited by HiBC; March 8, 2021 at 02:32 PM.

March 8, 2021, 06:10 PM	#29
Dave T Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2000 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 1,456	It never ceases to amaze me why so many people are willing to try and shoot ammunition, not in the proper caliber and never intended to be fired in some particular firearm. 44 Mag/44 Spc/44 Rus and 357 Mag/38 Spc/38 Long & Short aside, they are all based on the same parent cartridge, just longer and longer versions. People try shooting 380s in 9mms. They try shooting 38 Super in 357s. And here we have people shooting or trying to shoot 38 S&W cartridges in 38 S&W Special revolvers. In these days of near zero ammunition availability, trading for the right ammunition for your gun is so much more reasonable and such good sense. Why on earth try to fit a square peg in a round hole, or more to the point if your square peg does fit in that round hole...it still isn't supposed to be there. Good grief! Dave __________________ RSVN '69-'71 PCSD Ret

March 9, 2021, 05:32 PM	#34
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,723	I have one revolver chambered in .38 S&W, a S&W Model 32-1. Because of that, I had two boxes of Remington .38 S&W ammo on the shelf several years ago when this question came up on another forum. I also have 19 different revolvers chambered in .38 Special or .357 Magnum. As is the case here, there were different opinions and experiences regarding whether the .38 S&W would chamber in .38/.357 revolvers, which led me to test all of them. Every chamber of every cylinder in every one of those revolvers easily chambered the Remington .38 S&W ammo. Now, I think it very unlikely that that many revolvers, from a number of different manufacturers, made over a period of some five decades or more, all had oversized chambers, which leads me to two conclusions: (1) there's no question that some brand or brands of .38 S&W ammo will chamber in some (perhaps all) .38/.357 revolvers, and (2) Remington .38 S&W ammo appears to be slightly undersized for the caliber (which I've heard others claim). All of that said, I never have and never will fire incorrect ammo in any of my firearms, regardless of whether it chambers, and I would strongly advise others to only use the specific type of ammo that the firearm is chambered for, no matter what others may tell them is OK. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Instructor: Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, PPIH, Metallic & Shotgun Shell Reloading; RSO Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club

March 12, 2021, 12:59 AM	#38
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,821	One thing to consider, all factory ammo is slightly UNDER the published specs (which generally are the maximum allowed dimensions). they MAY be slightly under the minimum dimension specs, to ensure chambering in guns with min spec chambers. Any variation is possible due to the range of tolerances on the ammo and on the chambers. A .38 S&W should not fit in a .38 Special chamber, and most of the time, they won't, and sometimes they will. If it chambers, it will fire. The oversize bullet squeezes down the barrel just fine. The low pressure of the .38 S&W does not overstrain the gun. For over a century there has been a lot more .38 Special ammo than .38S&W. Even today with "nothing" available, you're much, much more likely to get your hands on .38 Special before you find any .38S&W. SO, shooting .38 S&W in a .38 Special gun that it fits in, while mechanically safe, is BARKING STUPID!!! It's a WASTE of a scarce commodity, and money, as well. There's a lot of folks out there with guns that will only shoot .38S&W who would likely pay well for some ammo, or even trade you .38Spl for it. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 17, 2021, 09:43 AM	#41
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	I have an old H&R 38S&W snubby that my dad picked up in the 1960's. Everytime I saw a box of ammo I picked it up. now I have about 400 rounds of factory ammo. someday I will get dies. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

March 8, 2021, 05:03 PM	#28
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	I got into the 38 S&W-38/200 a few years back when I picked up an old Enfield for a decent price. 38 S&W isn't easily found in most shops around here, and when I bought that Enfield, it took me four more stops on the way home, before I found a shop that had any, and they only had one box, and it was Remington "Target" (must be a joke), at $35/50. And that was before the panic. Starline makes brass, its fairly cheap and readily available. Matts makes two versions of the British 200 grain bullets, and they work well too. I have a bunch of 38 and 357 S&W revolvers, and none of mine will chamber a 38 S&W round. Ive been told that Remington brass "might", depending on the gun, but it doesn't in any of mine, or at least the brass from that box I bought doesn't. If you are looking at one of these guns, I would suggest you take a 38 Special round along, or if your in a shop, that you ask them to see if it will chamber one. If it does, Id walk. There still seem to be plenty of unmolested guns around to have to deal with that. I also have two of the British S&W Victorys in the caliber, and they are the better choice if you want a gun in this caliber. The Enfield shoots OK, but its crude compared to the Smiths. All three of mine prefer the .361 diameter bullets. I have tried 158 grain .357 LSWC's in them, and at 10-15 yards, they seem to shoot OK, but they also shoot low to POA of the sights. Part of that is probably velocity and lighter bullet too. The typical 146 grain US 38 S&W load also seemed to shoot a bit low in the Enfield when I shot it. I haven't loaded that since, nor have I shot it in the S&W's. If you reload, the cost and availability issues are basically rendered moot. Once you have one gun in the caliber, don't be surprised if they start to multiply. Very pleasant and fun to shoot too.

March 8, 2021, 08:24 PM	#30
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	In my reloading days I found a HBWC over 2.7 grains of Bullseye worked great in my prewar No.2 MkI.

March 9, 2021, 10:53 AM	#31
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	If the 38 S&W round will fit in the chamber of your .38 Special gun it will shoot. I didn't think it would fit but tried some .38 in a .38 Special gun, it went in the chamber. Prolly won't fit in older guns chambered for .38 Special tho.

March 9, 2021, 11:32 AM	#32
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Something doesnt sound right here. What kind of 38 Special guns are you getting the 38 S&W's to chamber in? I just grabbed a handful of 38 S&W's, both R/P and Starline brass, and tried again in three different S&W's, two 38 specials (model 10's) and a 357mag (model 19), and not one round of the Starline will even begin to chamber, and the R/P will start in about 1/8" and then stops cold.

March 11, 2021, 05:27 PM	#35
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	I have three 38 specials , S&W J frame , S&W K frame and a Colt Police Positive Special and two 357 magnums S&w N frame and Ruger Blackwawk . I also have a 38 S&W top break with a box factory ammo. The 38 S&W would not completely chamber in any of the 38 special or 357 Magnum revolvers ... All would go into the chamber and stop about 1/2 way in ... a decent press with my thumb and they did not go in any farther ... not one would seat completely. The Colt Police Positive Special left about 1/4" of case protruding... being so old I thought it might chamber one ...but it did not . Bottom line is none of my 5 38/357 would fully chamber a 38S&W . Gary

March 11, 2021, 06:20 PM	#36
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Just for giggles, i tried 3 different factory loads (all old to very old) in 3 of my 38s and one 357, 2 old guns and 2 newish ones, none fit either gun. The gun and ammo I tried that did work was at Bass Pro, new ammo, new gun.

March 11, 2021, 06:35 PM	#37
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	What gun did you try and what ammo? I tried them in my newish 686+, and the same result as the others. As I said earlier, Ive been told that factory R&P is a bit undersized and "might" go, but my reloaded R&P brass wont. Unless you have a 38spl with very generous chambers, which probably isnt good anyway, and wouldn't be good for your 38spl brass either, Im not seeing them chambering. The problem with the 38S&W's that were bored out so the 38spls would work, tend to cause the brass to swell and split, and there's a reason for that. Its the same reason a 38S&W shouldn't chamber in a 38spl.

March 17, 2021, 10:00 AM	#42
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Tried some old Remington 38 S&Ws in one of my S&W M-19s- no go.

March 17, 2021, 11:26 AM	#43
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Keep an eye out on eBay for the dies. I got a set of what look to be unused RCBS "Cowboy" 38S&W dies for around $25 with free shipping.

March 17, 2021, 04:01 PM	#44
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Prices on any reloading equiptment on E-bay are high right now. Yes,I've seen dies listed for $25,but with 5 more days bidding time. Price goes up dramatically in the final hours of bidding. I did find,and have received,a nice,pristine set of old Pacific 38 S+W dies that were somewhere in the $50 range. Sets of Lee's MIGHT be found at MSRP+ But most auctions are running the prices up.Lee dies might bring $80-$90 used, Lee;s cheapest little bench mount C-press and the hand presses are approaching $100. The Lyman 311284 mold,a 30 cal 214 gr that was designed to work well for the Krag came up. Actually,one two cav and a couple of single cav. No one has new ones in stock,that I found. I do have a Krag "Sporter carbine?" I've been wanting cast bullets for. It seems a good idea to have a cast bullet center fire rifle I can burn 4895,etc in. I have fine stash of wheel weights. So I groaned and took the one-time $100 pain to win bid. Seems at least twice what I'd ordinarily pay. But the mold and the Krag together make an "outfit" Its done. Should arive soon.

March 17, 2021, 04:38 PM	#46
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Without being judgemental... The reloading data I have looked at is generally in the 650 fps range. Now,I'm sure that is conservative for the age and varied designs of these guns. Some are break top old S+W's. Its wise to be gentle. That said,from my Cowboy Action Shooting phase,the gamers downloaded to the minimum that would go "bang" . I leaned toward replicating a full black powder level "Doing Business" load,in smokeless. I'm not a gamer. Its the gamers who are most likely to be beating on a squib rod trying to drive out a stuck bullet. However, the general discusion rule of thumb was about 650 fps to be sure the bullet cleared the barrel. Squibbing the bore plugged was a low end limitation. Alan makes a good point. An OS bullet combined with cylinder gap leakage might lead to a bulged barrel. I'm certainly not going to pursue hot rodding my friends old Colt DA solid frame Colt Police Positive. I'm not going to consider the 1100 to 1200 fps Buffalo Bore ammo. I do wonder if a specimen of the solid frame Colt from around the 1920's? (speculated) in good shape would be up to loads in the 800 fps range from folks expert in these guns) If so,I feel better about the reliabilty of a little more powder. Besides,I think its her only gun. If she DID need to use it,800 fps would give a touch more penetration But I DO NOT want to beat the gun up. Last edited by HiBC; March 17, 2021 at 05:12 PM.

March 19, 2021, 09:41 AM	#47
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,383	"One stupid and ignorant question. If the bullet is slightly larger and less pressure, might the bullet get stuck in the barrel? Now that could be very dangerous. " Not a stupid question at all. The difference in bullet diameter isn't that much -- .003 to .005 (.357 nominal for .38 Special, .361 nominal for .38 S&W)... But .38 S&W bullets tend to be, in my experience, quite soft so MAY be more prone to leading. As for getting stuck in the bore, I wouldn't be concerned about that at all. Maximum pressure for the .38 S&W is about 14,500 psi, which isn't that much different from the max pressure for .38 Special, 17,500 psi. But, those are max pressures -- working pressures can be some thousands of PSI less. Additionally, there are many .38 Special loads that develop pressure bands very similar to those of the .38 S&W. But, to stick a bullet in the bore of a .38 Special you're generally looking at the equivalent of a squib load -- probably in the 5,000 psi range or less. So, I'd say that there's no real worry about sticking a bullet if using any decent factory load. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.