Remington RP9... A PPQ Knock Off?

[Martowski]

I was just looking over an article and saw a pick of the new Remington RP9 pistol. Pardon me if this has already been covered here, but doesn't the slide look exactly like the PPQ? While I haven't seen the internals on this, it looks just like a PPQ M2 minues the finger grooves.

Anyone seen one of these to comment on similarities/differences with the PPQ?

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/rem...hot-show-2017/

[Necron99]

Yeah that does look very similar. To some degree, they all have striking similarities. Everything after Beowulf is deravitive. Lol

Had to argue with someone the other day that no, the Sig P320 isn't a "Glock ripoff" just because it's black with a striker.

But this is really similar. Really really.

[MandolinMan]

One significant difference is that the PPQ actually functions reliably...

[Katsumi Liquer]

Egad, it really does resemble a 5" PPQ. I wonder how many product recalls the RP9 will have to go through.

[Martowski]

Yeah, I mean I know there's probably only so much originality you can put into a striker fired polymer design these days but geesh... this just seems like a blatant copy in many ways. Again, haven't seen the internals but the Remington even talks about it having a pre cocked striker that provides a single action pull... which sounds a lot like how my PPQ feels.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by MandolinMan

One significant difference is that the PPQ actually functions reliably...

Have there been problems with the RP9? I haven't heard much about it.

I know that Remington's recent product introduction history certainly doesn't bode well, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[MandolinMan]

Have there been problems with the RP9? I haven't heard much about it.

I know that Remington's recent product introduction history certainly doesn't bode well, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

The military arms channel released some initial testing results and they didn't look good. The right side ambi slide release was completely non-functioning and appeared to be an obvious design fail. Also, many malfunctions in the first several hundred rounds.

I really want to see Remington produce a solid handgun as I've always been a fan of the company. Time will tell I guess.

[Uncle Malice]

looks like a Umarex quality clone attempting to combine the M&P and PPQ.

Poor Remington. How the mighty have fallen.

[sigarms228]

Doesn't look like a PPQ to me.

[Lumber]

It does seem a little bit like a knock off but what really bothers me is the logos on the grip and the slide. Just ugly.

[presspics]

It was actually designed by the guy that designed the S&W M&P. S&W was also the importer of Walther at that time. I'm sure he took ideas from both designs when he came up with the Remington.

[TunnelRat]

Meh. They're all polymer framed striker fired pistols. There's only so much originality you can have without going with something many people wouldn't like.


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[tahunua001]

I really get tired of the glock and walther knockoff threads.
I've had to argue that the Ruger SR22 is not a Walter P22 copycat.
the Canik TP9SF is not a walther PPQ knockoff(ealier TP9 variants most certainly were, but later gens have distinguished themselves as a whole new animal)
The Ruger SR series is not a glock knockoff
the springfield XD is not a glock wannabe
the S&W M&P is not a glock wannabe(but perhaps it should be, the trigger design sucks IMO)
the lists go on and on and on. I had a guy try and argue that the RP9 was a direct copycat of a glock.

personally, I could care less if it is guilty of infringing on every walther patent in the book. the RP series need serious refinement and is a perfect testament to the shoddy quality of Remington handguns(coughR51coughcough). I picked one up in the LGS, the ergonomics were amazing but it is a seriously topheavy beast and it failed to return to battery after performing a presscheck. recoil spring felt light and weak to begin with, I can't imagine how poorly it would do once it actually had to strip a round from the magazine.

[Martowski]

Certainly there is only so much originality that can be built into the current polymer frame striker fired format at this time. However, it struck me even aesthetically just looking at the Remington slide that it's very much copying the PPQ's design. Kind of like when a clothes designer copies another one. There's only so many ways you can make a shoe, but it's apparent when there's intentionality around copying another design.

In the end what does the mean? Not a lot, but then a lot of what we all discuss is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Such is the case with casual casual dialogue

[kozak6]

Yeah, it looks like a Sigma frame with a Walther slide, and an M&P style nose job.

I'm not bothered by it. That look is what's fashionable these days.

If they can't make a pistol that works good, they might as well make it look like one that does .

[USMCGrunt]

Hmm, looks like my PPQ but my PPQ works every time and has the superior paddle magazine release lever as well. Sorry, but IMHO, the last original handgun design Remington came up with was in 1875!!

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by MandolinMan

The military arms channel released some initial testing results and they didn't look good. The right side ambi slide release was completely non-functioning and appeared to be an obvious design fail. Also, many malfunctions in the first several hundred rounds.

I watched the video last night; yikes!

For those who haven't seen it, when MM says "many malfunctions," this means "dozens." The gun routinely misfed when >15rds were loaded in the magazine, with the top cartridge jamming between the feed ramp and feed lips, which pushed the barrel upwards into the slide with so much force that the slide was barely operable unless the mag was dropped first. THEN it started refusing to go into battery. Ugh!

Originally Posted by USMCGrunt

...IMHO, the last original handgun design Remington came up with was in 1875!!

I disagree; the Pedersen delayed-blowback system used on the Model 51 was very original, although it was arguably not a very good solution in a handgun, as evidenced by the fact that nobody has copied it except Remington themselves.

OTOH the RP9 is certainly a "Me-Too" product, which makes the initial MAC test doubly vexing, as there are literally dozens of similar competitors that function properly out-of-the-box.

[Worc]

The slide looks a lot like the PPQ's for sure and the frame similar to the M&P's. Overall the RP9 is not as aesthetically pleasing as the other two to my eye. I don't see it as a big if someone says that a new gun resembles another or a combination of several. Aesthetics is one thing. Then there are things like ergonomics, accuracy, trigger characteristics, reliability, and shootability that matter more and can't be judged from a photo.

Manufactures can still be creative aesthetically wise. The current line of Steyr's or the Beretta's APX would be some recent stand outs. Even the 320 looks Sigish and unlike other striker models. Since I'm not a manufacturer with skin in the game. I say the more good options/choices the better. It drives innovation, improvements, and lowers cost for the user.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by carguychris

I watched the video last night; yikes!



For those who haven't seen it, when MM says "many malfunctions," this means "dozens." The gun routinely misfed when >15rds were loaded in the magazine, with the top cartridge jamming between the feed ramp and feed lips, which pushed the barrel upwards into the slide with so much force that the slide was barely operable unless the mag was dropped first. THEN it started refusing to go into battery. Ugh!

I disagree; the Pedersen delayed-blowback system used on the Model 51 was very original, although it was arguably not a very good solution in a handgun, as evidenced by the fact that nobody has copied it except Remington themselves.



OTOH the RP9 is certainly a "Me-Too" product, which makes the initial MAC test doubly vexing, as there are literally dozens of similar competitors that function properly out-of-the-box.

While I have no love for modern Remington, it was a test of one pistol. It doesn't bode well for sure, but the big question is if we see similar reports.


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[USMCGrunt]

I disagree; the Pedersen delayed-blowback system used on the Model 51 was very original, although it was arguably not a very good solution in a handgun, as evidenced by the fact that nobody has copied it except Remington themselves.

Yes, I do stand corrected on that. I guess I should have said that the last original handgun design Remington came out with that worked worth a damn was in 1875!

[tahunua001]

the model 51 was very reliable from what I've heard. the R51 on the other hand is complete and utter junk.

[BearBrimstone]

I hate defending Remington, but guns are like movies at this point. It is difficult to design one without similarities to others. Many don't agree, but I still think HK's VP series looks like the Walther PPX.