Best full size semi-autos for competition and target shooting

[OhioGuy]

I've just recently begun shooting in a tactical indoor league, and hope to improve of course! I'm using my XD subcompact, and I'm interested in gaining real experience with a carry weapon right now. But I'd like to get involved in some other types of competitions as I improve, and I gather a full-size gun with better optics, etc. would be good to have.

Do the competition models of typical pistols offer much advantage over their "normal" counterparts? I'm thinking of such models as the M&P Pro, CORE and Performance Center. Each lists some improvements to triggers, or upgraded sights, etc. but is there really anything notably different between these and their stock counterparts?

Would I be better off getting a standard pistol and then customizing it?

S&W advertises their PRO, CORE, PC models as "competition ready." Others, like Springfield and Glock, just have 5" barreled "Tactical" models of their typical striker guns.

I've read that guns like the Beretta 92 or Sig P226 (also FN and CZ models) are often used for competition with hardly any modifications. And of course 1911's.

I guess I'm trying to sort out, when it comes to "Pro" or "Tactical" or "Competition Ready" models, how much is real value and how much is just marketing?

[P71pilot]

Try out a Walther PPQ, competition ready. Finest trigger you'll find on a stock striker pistol. Very ergonomic and accurate.

[RickB]

If you are going to pursue IDPA and/or USPSA, you are going to have to become a pretty good competitor before a stock gun is holding you back.
You are going to shave full seconds by working on your draw, movement into and out of shooting positions, etc., and when you get to the point that tenths are becoming important, and you know what you need in a gun, then go for an upgrade.
National championships have been won with stock Glocks.

[OhioGuy]

What about the merits of simply having a longer-barreled stock gun?

Just shooting at the range with other people's guns, I've found I'm generally more accurate with a full-size Beretta (almost 5" barrel) than I am with either a 3" barrel Beretta or my Springfield.

I suppose I really just need to keep working on my aim until I'm more accurate with my compact guns

[ammo.crafter]

All good info offered, especially a full size gun.

I will assume you do not want to invest $3000 in a competition gun at this point.

I started with a standard Colt Gov't model and as I grew with the sport I had work done to the gun that suited my level as I became more proficient; trigger & sear, new springs matched to the reloads I use, beaver tail, etc.

[P71pilot]

Compact carry-specific guns are generelly harder to shoot accurately than full size duty or military type pistols, of course there are outliers. Some things that lead to ones ability to shoot a gun accurately are fit to your hand, trigger pull, and sights

I generally shoot 1911s pretty well, also the walther ppq and full size glocks, surprisingly i have seen greatest accuracy in my hands with a glock 42 .380

[OhioGuy]

I shoot a full-size PX4 better than a subcompact PX4, although nearly all other aspects of that gun are the same.

I'm slightly more accurate with the subcompact PX4 (in single action) than I am with the XD subcompact. I'm guessing the longer barrel and sight radius are the bigger factor, while the shorter and lighter trigger are making a small difference.

I also see people shoot subcompacts more accurately than I shoot anything, so it definitely isn't the gun that needs to improve at this point

I will assume you do not want to invest $3000 in a competition gun at this point.

I started with a standard Colt Gov't model and as I grew with the sport I had work done to the gun that suited my level as I became more proficient; trigger & sear, new springs matched to the reloads I use, beaver tail, etc.

Definitely don't want to sink $3K! As you said your gun evolved over time as you did, maybe a good approach would be to have a full-size pistol and then customize the trigger, size, etc. over time as I improve or find myself having different needs?

I really like the XD Mod.2 series. The grip isn't customizable like many other makes, but it happens to fit my hand perfectly anyway. I know there are trigger upgrades and such available there, too. I intend to stick with the subcompact XD for carry, so if I got a 4" or 5" version of the same, it would be familiar and I could use the extra magazines I already have.

[T. O'Heir]

"...guessing the longer barrel and..." More about the muzzle blast being less, even with a slightly longer barrel. Balance is a bit different though.
Also assumes you've done a trigger job, have high visibility adjustable sights, a match grade barrel and are using good ammo. All of which is what's done to the competition models. Price stuff because all of that is done by hand.
"...guns like the Beretta 92 or Sig P226..." Are not target pistols and never will be. The Shooting games don't really require target pistols either.
Anything that has "Pro" or "Tactical" or "Competition Ready" in its name is about marketing.

[James K]

I know many folks will disagree, some rabidly, but to me "target shooting" and "tactical/self defense" are contradictory concepts. The target shooter wants a relatively heavy pistol, with a good sight picture, a long barrel, and in a caliber that will be accurate and have little recoil. Weight, size and concealability are not issues.

For self-defense (away from the home) a large, heavy handgun with a set of target sights and grips may be one choice for defense, but it is certainly not the best.

Of course, there are blends of the two worlds, but such "marriages" do not work well in the real world.

Jim

[Pond, James Pond]

I've read that guns like the Beretta 92 or Sig P226 (also FN and CZ models) are often used for competition with hardly any modifications. And of course 1911's.

I think you've answered your own question. Just remove the brackets and include the CZs fully in your deliberations.

Unless you're planning to carry (and even then it's not impossible), then any full-size pistol from the above makers would be great for production category competitions and have a decent enough sight radius for target shooting, assuming you're not going to olympic standard groups!

Needless to say, they would also suit for SD/HD.

I personally have a CZ SP-01 and I am very pleased with it.

[g.willikers]

The gun is the least of it.
Really, truly.
Handguns are difficult to master.
Spending your time and money on ammo, dry practice and range fees will yield much better results than chasing the perfect gun.
The one you already have is plenty good.
Real improvements will come from you more than the gun.

[zincwarrior]

If you are going to compete then you need a competition level pistol, else you will do badly. This is different depending on the sport.

*Bullseye- I have no clue.

*IDPA-probably your cheapest between IDPA and USPSA- An XDM 5.25, M&P 5in Pro (the new version 2.0 may again come out with a an M&PL), and Glock 34 are your best plastic guns. You will want to trade out triggers / barrels, and potentially sights (I like XDM's sight myself). Then of course you move into the various CZs, Sigs, and modifications which can ramp up in price.

If you like 1911s then this is the one for you and you already know what to tweak.

*USPSA. This one is more of a range depending on class. You can run the above, or get jazzy with true open end raceguns running $3,000 or more. Before doing that I would seriously check out the sport first.

As noted practice is the real key but don't kid yourself, you won't be competitive with a stock plastic gun. Having said that, I would run the sport for a few months as you will need to figure out what you like personally, and that may evolve over time.

[Jim Watson]

A friend is an XD enthusiast, has them all from hideout to 5.25" and looking at custom for competition. There are other makes and models but you can do just fine at IDPA SSP and USPSA Production with an XD.

If you are interested in conventional (bullseye shooting) the Beretta can be tuned to equal anything on the market, 1911 NM included.

[Maverick36]

Do the competition models of typical pistols offer much advantage over their "normal" counterparts?

I have a PPQ and like it a lot. A few week ago I got to shoot a club members PPQ Q5 and have to say that is definitely a huge upgrade.
Just my humble opinion.

[JDBerg]

Take a serious look at a CZ 75B Single Action;

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-b-sa...ck-16-rd-mags/

[Brit]

A Glock 19, with good night sights, TruGlo fiber optics? A 3.5 connector gives a 4.5 lb trigger weight. Perfect for concealed carry, and IDPA.
Join a IDPA Club, great people, great fun!

Do not go overboard with modifications all over the place! The amazing thing about IDPA, same gun for all aspects of pistol use, CCW out shopping, or in a match, covered in mud! Watch the other shooters in a match.

[zincwarrior]

Fair point. IDPA's newer ccp class is very good for that sized pistol, and generally tweaks at that level are minimal. However you will run across the occasional maximized tweak 1911 shooter in that class, and there's nothing keeping one from maximizing the usual plastic guns for that as well.

Note also shooters will often shoot their CC in that class every month or so for the trigger time.

It kind of comes down to: do you want to have trigger time with your carry piece or do you want to be competitive? If you want to be competitive you have to have competitive gear, like any other sport. If you want trigger time only, then run your cc or pick up a nice production gun and not worry about.

I should also note, you can buy the competition pistol size (XDM 5.25, M&P 5in Pro, Glock 34, Beretta 92/Sig 226, CZ etc.) shoot that and do just fine. You can then modify that pistol later if you desire and if you don't you'll still have a fine full size pistol.

[rt11002003]

For the money, I found the CZ75 Tactical Sport to be best 9mm pistol I own. It is easy to shoot, reliable and accurate. It has a great trigger.

It compares favorably to the SIG X-Series, the CZ75 SP01 Shadow Target, the Tanfoglio Elite Limited, three STI target models (including a Match Master-race gun), a bunch of HK USP models with match triggers and a number of other competitive pistols I've tried.

[UncleEd]

OhioGuy,

Double down on the gun you have and really master it.

Or if you go full size, don't think tactical, competition, etc. Get
one that feels good to you and then master it.

At this stage in your competition career, don't think you'll get
there faster if only you had a special sight, a special grip or even
a special trigger.

A 92 Beretta or Sig 226 or 1911 like a Colt Competition is all you need.

[BoogieMan]

Something to consider. Things like optics and compensated barrels change your class and whom you are competing against in some sports. So, even though your times may decrease your standings at the end wont due to the skill of the competitors.

[m&p45acp10+1]

The gun will only take you far. The rest is built upon skill.

It is like many other things. The high end stuff does little if anything to make one a better shot. It takes practicing, and doing things correctly while practicing to hone those skills.

I would skip buying another gun for a while. I would instead work with an instructor on getting good with what you have.

[saleen322]

It really depends on the type of competition. If shooting IDPA or similar, you are shooting very big targets at close range so the pistol is less important. If you are shooting Conventional Pistol indoors, you are trying to hit a 0.90" 10 ring at 50 feet so the pistol makes a big difference and money spent on a quality pistol will pay off. YMMV

[OhioGuy]

I appreciate all the responses! They've been very helpful!

For now I will take to hear the advice to train well with the gun I have. I guess it dawned on me that using it in some "realistic" competitive shooting scenarios (which I understand is more along the lines of IDPA) will let me see how good I actually am with a gun that I would use to defend my life, and not with a gun that will be locked at home when danger strikes.

I just ordered a laser trainer that I hope will let me get more training at home. It comes with a replica pistol, but I intend to get a cartridge that I can use with my actual pistol.

It's also prompted me to look at the CZ models and now I have $10,000 worth of stuff I'd love to try

(Random question: I don't know if I've ever seen a CZ model in a gun store or sporting chain store...maybe once, and I think that was a rifle...are they just hard to come by? I've never seen one for rent in any of the three ranges that I usually go to either...the 75 looks very like the Beretta 92 that I love, only with a decocker that can actually be reached by human thumbs...).

[OhioGuy]

Something to consider. Things like optics and compensated barrels change your class and whom you are competing against in some sports. So, even though your times may decrease your standings at the end wont due to the skill of the competitors.

Great point.

Well I've started in a local tactical shooting league, where there are some pretty complex scenarios modeled at the indoor range. Everyone competes for time, points and overall score (and of course bragging rights) and it seems like a great way for me to start. It draws a mix of people, from those who make me feel really good about my accuracy, to those who could hold the gun backward and still hit the targets. All kinds of gear, too--this week, a guy with a fairly tricked-out Sig ran the course just ahead of a guy with a Glock 42 (I've never seen someone reload so fast and so often ).

I'm pretty sure people are really there only to compete against themselves. It's fun and will hopefully be a good baseline for bigger stuff.

[g.willikers]

Competing against oneself, not the other guy, is the secret.
Shooting, motor sports, weight lifting, what ever.
Stay within your personal limits to avoid getting hurt and continue to raise those limits with practice and experience.
That's the key.
Most folks don't get that, so you're already on the right path.