Nosler Ballistic Tip vs. Winchester C/T Ballistic Silvertips

SEHunter · February 12, 2016, 07:45 PM

Based off my research, the general consensus is that these two bullets are one in the same with the only exception being the Lubalox coating on the C/T. I'm wondering for one if this can be confirmed, and two if there is any real data that confirms whether or not the Lubalox coating truly helps with velocity and decreased fouling as claims have suggested.

If specifics matter, I'm looking at .277 caliber, 130 grain. In the past, I tried these bullets (C/T) in 30 cal and got better accuracy when I went to a Hornady Interbond with all other components being exact equal in every way. Before I go for the basic Nosler ballistic tip, I hoped to find out if anyone can give their own real world experience with the C/T. I've noticed that I see a lot of use of the Nosler BT in the forums but rarely hear discussion around the C/T. I just thought this to be odd since Winchesters factory premium ammo using the silver tip is so popular with folks who don't hand load.

603Country · February 12, 2016, 09:18 PM

Same bullet, but with the coating. My honest opinion is that they put a coating on it so it would be different enough to sell with a Winchester name on it. I could be way wrong on that however.

I use Ballistic Tips in most everything these days. They work great for me and have for many years.

As for the coating reducing fouling...I have no idea.

Clark · February 12, 2016, 09:32 PM

I have shot holes in paper with the CT bullets.
I have shot 21 big game animals with BT bullets; 130 gr, 150 gr, 115 gr, 140 gr, 120 gr, and 125 gr.

I have shot 2 animals with Hornady SST that has an "Interbond crimp" but is not an interbond bullet.

To me HNDY Interbond =~ Nos accubond
Nos Ballistic tip =~ HNDY SST
All are good for me.

I can use, but don't care for the CT.

I am having trouble with long range accubonds, but I think it is me and not the bullets.

Tlewis81 · February 12, 2016, 11:01 PM

I shoot the exact load 130 gr win ballistic silvertip in one of my hunting guns...easy to clean and a good hunting round

briandg · February 13, 2016, 05:54 PM

Winchester used "black talon" to ride to infamy. They have ridden the black bullet wave since then.

Does it make sense that the maker, nobler, would make low grAde products for win. A nd make good products for themselves? The contract with win may be worth more than their own brand. It is very unlikely, ridiculous I duly unlikely, that. Win products are lower quality...it is likewise almost insane to think that nozler would create two sets of tooling to make an identical bullet.

SEHunter · February 13, 2016, 06:48 PM

I recently saw that Nosler actually gives the skinny on the comparison between these two bullets right in their web site. They plainly state that these two bullets are structurally one in the same. The only difference is the Lubalox coating (which is not moly). They say the coating does not allow for an increase in powder charge. I can't find any known significant benefit to the Lubalox coating. For the reloader, it seems there is no reason to choose the C/T over the standard Nosler B/T unless you prefer the appearance of the C/T. Sounds to me like another marketing scheme. Maybe scheme is not the right word since it's still a Nosler B/T but maybe strategy is a better term.

Clark · February 13, 2016, 08:08 PM

Quote:

for the reloader, it seems there is no reason to choose the C/T over the standard Nosler B/T unless you prefer the appearance of the C/T. Sounds to me like another marketing scheme.

Johnson =Evinrude with another color paint
Natchez = Midsouth with another phone number

30 some years ago the wife worked on an RF synthesizer that Motola liked so much for some new project called "cell phones" that they were going to not just buy the synthesizers, but put their own name on it and sell them. This was called OEM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin...t_manufacturer

So for nearly 40 years I have been a conspiracy theorist, looking for possible OEM products.
When an American company sells a product with the manual written in Engrish, be suspicious.
I am currently highly suspicious of many products and have an appointment with the psychiatrist tomorrow.

SEHunter · February 14, 2016, 07:38 AM

Ha. Geez Clark, I didn't meant to strike a sensitive cord in you there. At least Lexus and Acura make their own vehicles

603Country · February 14, 2016, 10:47 AM

I can't help but think that Winchester wanted to tap into the marketing success of the Nosler BT, but wanted to differentiate their bullet/loading in some fashion. They changed the plastic tip and added a coating. I think their plan was successful.

briandg · February 14, 2016, 12:00 PM

See

Youz funny!

603:

You had all of the others selling their own ammo and proudly announcing the fact. Right now the only one that comes to mind is federal and the swift. At this moment I can't think of Winchester selling another company's trademark. That was a great observation. They wanted to have it both ways. They had the sterling reputation of nosler without handing over the whole thing.

Clark · February 14, 2016, 01:23 PM

OK, I have my tin foil hat on.

Why has Sierra not made a bullet to compete with Nos Bal Tip and HNDY SST?

Sierra, your Lead tips contaminate my moly process.

Come on... plastic tip, boat tail,.... you know what I want.

briandg · February 14, 2016, 08:28 PM

Maybe they figure that the market hasn't got any room.. Speer doesn't either, right?

SEHunter · February 14, 2016, 08:57 PM

Ditto for a SGK with a polymer tip. I'd switch over all my medium bore loads if they made this.

reynolds357 · February 14, 2016, 11:14 PM

Lubralox has two functions:
1. Protects the bullet from corrosion. It does an excellent job of that.
2. Reduces CU fouling. In my experience, it does a reasonable job of that as well. It reduces friction. If you don't believe me chrono the identical load using the Nosler B.T. and the Win. B.S.T. The B.S.T will be slower at identical powder charges.

FrankenMauser · February 14, 2016, 11:41 PM

They are the same bullet.

My experience:
CT Ballistic Tips, especially the 168 gr CTBST in .30-06, are some of the most consistent and most accurate bullets I have ever worked with.

CT Ballistic Tips, especially the 168 gr CTBST in other .30-06s, are some of the most consistent and least accurate bullets I have ever worked with.

Simple summary:
I've used the CTBSTs in .22 caliber, .24 caliber, .27 caliber, and .30 caliber.
There was no way of knowing how they would perform, because there was never any "middle ground". Either the bullets did VERY well, or they did VERY poorly (shotgun pattern).

And many of those rifles had been exposed to the 'standard' Ballistic Tips and done very well with them. There's something about that Lubalox surface that some barrels just don't like.

Just to be clear:
I do believe they are all excellent bullets. Pretty much everything Nosler makes is high quality, well designed, and extremely consistent (their hunting bullets are more consistent than most "match" bullets

).
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the product. I've just come across some rifles that absolutely, under no circumstances, will shoot with Lubalox even if they shoot 'bug holes' with standard (and otherwise identical) Ballistic Tips.

schmellba99 · February 17, 2016, 06:06 PM

Combined Technologies is a joint venture between Nosler and Winchester, and they are not moly coated projectiles. Lubalox is a black oxide process (similar to bluing) that is used as a corrosion inhibitor and they claim it reduces fouling in the barrel.

I've been shooting the Combined Technologies projectiles, which are Nosler Ballistic Tips that go through an extra process to apply the black oxide finish, for several years now - zero complaints. Accuracy and performance has been exactly as advertised. (.223, .243 and .30-06).

Whether they reduce fouling or not is up for debate I suppose. I can say that my barrels after a good shooting session is usually not dirty at all - a couple of patches down the bore and it's clean. Whether it would be cleaner or dirtier with standard gilding metal jacketed bullets is unknown. I do know that the CT projectiles will have a lower velocity given the same powder charge, so there is something to the claim of the coating acting as a lubricant.

I still wish Winchester made their Supreme line of .22 ammo. That was the best .22 ammo I ever found, and they quit making it.

SEHunter · February 17, 2016, 07:21 PM

I tried them in the 50 grain for a 22-250 and 168 for a 30-06. They both shot MOA if you mean minute of animal but I wasn't able to get them much under an inch. Went to hornady in both guns and found real .5 MOA loads. Who knows. Just my guns I'm sure. I thought about trying them again in a .270 but these SGK shoot so good, I don't want to switch anymore. If only the SGK came in a polymer tip...

redline494 · February 17, 2016, 09:37 PM

I have loaded and taken deer with 180 grain C/T, Nosler Accubonds, and Nosler ballistic tips in .300 Win. Mag.
I noted no difference in point of impact out to 250 yards with any of them, and as long as I put the bullet where it was supposed to go, all the deer ended up dead.
I didnt notice any difference in bore fouling when bench shooting between any of the 3 either.
I got lucky with this rifle. The only thing it doesnt shoot well is factory Federal's 180gr soft points.

February 12, 2016, 07:45 PM	#1
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	Nosler Ballistic Tip vs. Winchester C/T Ballistic Silvertips Based off my research, the general consensus is that these two bullets are one in the same with the only exception being the Lubalox coating on the C/T. I'm wondering for one if this can be confirmed, and two if there is any real data that confirms whether or not the Lubalox coating truly helps with velocity and decreased fouling as claims have suggested. If specifics matter, I'm looking at .277 caliber, 130 grain. In the past, I tried these bullets (C/T) in 30 cal and got better accuracy when I went to a Hornady Interbond with all other components being exact equal in every way. Before I go for the basic Nosler ballistic tip, I hoped to find out if anyone can give their own real world experience with the C/T. I've noticed that I see a lot of use of the Nosler BT in the forums but rarely hear discussion around the C/T. I just thought this to be odd since Winchesters factory premium ammo using the silver tip is so popular with folks who don't hand load.

February 12, 2016, 09:32 PM	#3
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have shot holes in paper with the CT bullets. I have shot 21 big game animals with BT bullets; 130 gr, 150 gr, 115 gr, 140 gr, 120 gr, and 125 gr. I have shot 2 animals with Hornady SST that has an "Interbond crimp" but is not an interbond bullet. To me HNDY Interbond =~ Nos accubond Nos Ballistic tip =~ HNDY SST All are good for me. I can use, but don't care for the CT. I am having trouble with long range accubonds, but I think it is me and not the bullets. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

February 14, 2016, 01:23 PM	#11
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	OK, I have my tin foil hat on. Why has Sierra not made a bullet to compete with Nos Bal Tip and HNDY SST? Sierra, your Lead tips contaminate my moly process. Come on... plastic tip, boat tail,.... you know what I want. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

February 14, 2016, 11:41 PM	#15
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	They are the same bullet. My experience: CT Ballistic Tips, especially the 168 gr CTBST in .30-06, are some of the most consistent and most accurate bullets I have ever worked with. CT Ballistic Tips, especially the 168 gr CTBST in other .30-06s, are some of the most consistent and least accurate bullets I have ever worked with. Simple summary: I've used the CTBSTs in .22 caliber, .24 caliber, .27 caliber, and .30 caliber. There was no way of knowing how they would perform, because there was never any "middle ground". Either the bullets did VERY well, or they did VERY poorly (shotgun pattern). And many of those rifles had been exposed to the 'standard' Ballistic Tips and done very well with them. There's something about that Lubalox surface that some barrels just don't like. Just to be clear: I do believe they are all excellent bullets. Pretty much everything Nosler makes is high quality, well designed, and extremely consistent (their hunting bullets are more consistent than most "match" bullets ). There is absolutely nothing wrong with the product. I've just come across some rifles that absolutely, under no circumstances, will shoot with Lubalox even if they shoot 'bug holes' with standard (and otherwise identical) Ballistic Tips. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

February 12, 2016, 09:18 PM	#2
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Same bullet, but with the coating. My honest opinion is that they put a coating on it so it would be different enough to sell with a Winchester name on it. I could be way wrong on that however. I use Ballistic Tips in most everything these days. They work great for me and have for many years. As for the coating reducing fouling...I have no idea.

February 12, 2016, 11:01 PM	#4
Tlewis81 Member Join Date: January 3, 2016 Posts: 75	I shoot the exact load 130 gr win ballistic silvertip in one of my hunting guns...easy to clean and a good hunting round

February 13, 2016, 05:54 PM	#5
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Winchester used "black talon" to ride to infamy. They have ridden the black bullet wave since then. Does it make sense that the maker, nobler, would make low grAde products for win. A nd make good products for themselves? The contract with win may be worth more than their own brand. It is very unlikely, ridiculous I duly unlikely, that. Win products are lower quality...it is likewise almost insane to think that nozler would create two sets of tooling to make an identical bullet.

February 13, 2016, 06:48 PM	#6
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	I recently saw that Nosler actually gives the skinny on the comparison between these two bullets right in their web site. They plainly state that these two bullets are structurally one in the same. The only difference is the Lubalox coating (which is not moly). They say the coating does not allow for an increase in powder charge. I can't find any known significant benefit to the Lubalox coating. For the reloader, it seems there is no reason to choose the C/T over the standard Nosler B/T unless you prefer the appearance of the C/T. Sounds to me like another marketing scheme. Maybe scheme is not the right word since it's still a Nosler B/T but maybe strategy is a better term.

February 14, 2016, 07:38 AM	#8
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	Ha. Geez Clark, I didn't meant to strike a sensitive cord in you there. At least Lexus and Acura make their own vehicles

February 14, 2016, 10:47 AM	#9
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I can't help but think that Winchester wanted to tap into the marketing success of the Nosler BT, but wanted to differentiate their bullet/loading in some fashion. They changed the plastic tip and added a coating. I think their plan was successful.

February 14, 2016, 12:00 PM	#10
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	See Youz funny! 603: You had all of the others selling their own ammo and proudly announcing the fact. Right now the only one that comes to mind is federal and the swift. At this moment I can't think of Winchester selling another company's trademark. That was a great observation. They wanted to have it both ways. They had the sterling reputation of nosler without handing over the whole thing.

February 14, 2016, 08:28 PM	#12
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Maybe they figure that the market hasn't got any room.. Speer doesn't either, right?

February 14, 2016, 08:57 PM	#13
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	Ditto for a SGK with a polymer tip. I'd switch over all my medium bore loads if they made this.

February 14, 2016, 11:14 PM	#14
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Lubralox has two functions: 1. Protects the bullet from corrosion. It does an excellent job of that. 2. Reduces CU fouling. In my experience, it does a reasonable job of that as well. It reduces friction. If you don't believe me chrono the identical load using the Nosler B.T. and the Win. B.S.T. The B.S.T will be slower at identical powder charges.

February 17, 2016, 06:06 PM	#16
schmellba99 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 803	Combined Technologies is a joint venture between Nosler and Winchester, and they are not moly coated projectiles. Lubalox is a black oxide process (similar to bluing) that is used as a corrosion inhibitor and they claim it reduces fouling in the barrel. I've been shooting the Combined Technologies projectiles, which are Nosler Ballistic Tips that go through an extra process to apply the black oxide finish, for several years now - zero complaints. Accuracy and performance has been exactly as advertised. (.223, .243 and .30-06). Whether they reduce fouling or not is up for debate I suppose. I can say that my barrels after a good shooting session is usually not dirty at all - a couple of patches down the bore and it's clean. Whether it would be cleaner or dirtier with standard gilding metal jacketed bullets is unknown. I do know that the CT projectiles will have a lower velocity given the same powder charge, so there is something to the claim of the coating acting as a lubricant. I still wish Winchester made their Supreme line of .22 ammo. That was the best .22 ammo I ever found, and they quit making it.

February 17, 2016, 07:21 PM	#17
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	I tried them in the 50 grain for a 22-250 and 168 for a 30-06. They both shot MOA if you mean minute of animal but I wasn't able to get them much under an inch. Went to hornady in both guns and found real .5 MOA loads. Who knows. Just my guns I'm sure. I thought about trying them again in a .270 but these SGK shoot so good, I don't want to switch anymore. If only the SGK came in a polymer tip...

February 17, 2016, 09:37 PM	#18
redline494 Member Join Date: February 14, 2014 Location: Rosholt, Wi. Posts: 41	I have loaded and taken deer with 180 grain C/T, Nosler Accubonds, and Nosler ballistic tips in .300 Win. Mag. I noted no difference in point of impact out to 250 yards with any of them, and as long as I put the bullet where it was supposed to go, all the deer ended up dead. I didnt notice any difference in bore fouling when bench shooting between any of the 3 either. I got lucky with this rifle. The only thing it doesnt shoot well is factory Federal's 180gr soft points.