Brass vs. zamak (why can't you convert brass to fire ctg?)

w_houle · June 13, 2009, 11:22 PM

I have an RG-63(single action/ double action) in .38 spl. that mostly looks like a Colt SAA, and am pretty sure the frame is made of that dreaded material, zamak. I brought it to the range and have fired my 500th round through it with no ill effects, and that got me to thinking: If this gun can survive being fired, then why not a Remington in .38?.. and because I like pics

arcticap · June 14, 2009, 01:21 AM

I don't know anything about Zamak but I looked it up and there are different types.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZAMAK

Why do you think your frame is made of Zamak and not something else that is similar?
What you're asking might be a good question for a materials specialist.
Even if it's possible that brass could be used for the short term, maybe there are good reasons why it wouldn't be recommended.
If it's not about strength issues then what other reasons could there be?

Maybe brass C&B revolvers should be made out of Zamak because some type of Zamak is better?

w_houle · June 14, 2009, 10:02 AM

I think they made all of their guns out of it, and it's too light to be steel
Note: I put superglue on the front sight as a preventative measure for keeping the front sight from flying off because it's plastic.

Hawg · June 14, 2009, 10:55 AM

Because brass is softer and the factory loads are too heavy. Repeated firings will drive the cylinder back hard enough to eventually imprint the cylinder ratchet into the recoil shield.

w_houle · June 14, 2009, 01:01 PM

I wonder why this gun is the only one that I know of that looks like a Colt SAA that fires in DA.
Would it make it any better on brass frames if you were to mount a steel plate to it? I think the Kirst has that plate, but wonder how the frame would hold up to having the loading gate cut out.

arcticap · June 15, 2009, 02:53 AM

Check out this article about magnesium, some of the various engine & other parts that it's used for and how strong and light it is. Then it becomes more clear why some Zamek which contains magnesium is better than brass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium

RRR · June 15, 2009, 09:27 AM

I did a 38 Smith/Wesson con on an old CVA brass frame 51 Navy and shot the heck out of it. Maybe 500-600 rounds down range(got the ammo CHEEP). Heck the cylinder was only 49 bucks at the time sorta made like the gated modles buy no gate. Now if you keep your loads light (38 S&W light) brass frames should hold up ok. But as I cut a loading port I did find some small voids in the frame from casting.

CraigC · June 15, 2009, 09:32 PM

I just don't think there's much good you can say about pot metal, which is exactly what ZAMAK is. It's cheap to procure and manipulate since its low melting point does not require a much more expensive foundry, which should be obvious looking at the guns constructed of it. RG's, HiPoints, Walther P22's, Cimarron's Plinkerton, 'new' Henries and the Heritage line of single actions.

Smokin_Gun · June 15, 2009, 11:43 PM

I will reinnerate what Hawg said

Quote:

Because brass is softer and the factory loads are too heavy. Repeated firings will drive the cylinder back hard enough to eventually imprint the cylinder ratchet into the recoil shield.

Now what did I say I done?

Smokin' gun · June 21, 2009, 09:26 PM

I don't think you can weld magnesium; if that might pose an issue. One possible thing that might be positive about brass frames is they are softer than steel and the movement of your internal parts might not get worn as quick but then again if the brass softens then everything shifts. Ummm=just brainstormin on that thought. Maybe I'm asleep. Good beginners gun though and costs less. Brass in the day was probably much stronger than your new Pietta Reb Confederate.

Hawg · June 22, 2009, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Brass in the day was probably much stronger than your new Pietta Reb Confederate.

It was actually gunmetal which is a form of bronze.

Smokin_Gun · June 22, 2009, 01:44 AM

My High Standard Confederate Brasser is stronger/harder than the Italian ones ... it's the Bronze content mixed with Brass that would make them stronger... in the War Against Northern Aggression the Confederacy Collected if more Bronze than Brass ... depending on the amount collected would determine the strength or tinsle or shear strength of the brass frame Revs, rifles, or Cannons...

June 13, 2009, 11:22 PM	#1
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	Brass vs. zamak (why can't you convert brass to fire ctg?) I have an RG-63(single action/ double action) in .38 spl. that mostly looks like a Colt SAA, and am pretty sure the frame is made of that dreaded material, zamak. I brought it to the range and have fired my 500th round through it with no ill effects, and that got me to thinking: If this gun can survive being fired, then why not a Remington in .38?.. and because I like pics __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

June 14, 2009, 01:21 AM	#2
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	I don't know anything about Zamak but I looked it up and there are different types. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZAMAK Why do you think your frame is made of Zamak and not something else that is similar? What you're asking might be a good question for a materials specialist. Even if it's possible that brass could be used for the short term, maybe there are good reasons why it wouldn't be recommended. If it's not about strength issues then what other reasons could there be? Maybe brass C&B revolvers should be made out of Zamak because some type of Zamak is better? Last edited by arcticap; June 15, 2009 at 02:36 AM.

June 14, 2009, 10:02 AM	#3
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	I think they made all of their guns out of it, and it's too light to be steel Note: I put superglue on the front sight as a preventative measure for keeping the front sight from flying off because it's plastic. __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

June 14, 2009, 01:01 PM	#5
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	I wonder why this gun is the only one that I know of that looks like a Colt SAA that fires in DA. Would it make it any better on brass frames if you were to mount a steel plate to it? I think the Kirst has that plate, but wonder how the frame would hold up to having the loading gate cut out. __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

June 15, 2009, 02:53 AM	#6
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Check out this article about magnesium, some of the various engine & other parts that it's used for and how strong and light it is. Then it becomes more clear why some Zamek which contains magnesium is better than brass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium Last edited by arcticap; June 15, 2009 at 03:01 AM.

June 14, 2009, 10:55 AM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Because brass is softer and the factory loads are too heavy. Repeated firings will drive the cylinder back hard enough to eventually imprint the cylinder ratchet into the recoil shield.

June 15, 2009, 09:27 AM	#7
RRR Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Posts: 100	Brass frame 1851 36 Navy I did a 38 Smith/Wesson con on an old CVA brass frame 51 Navy and shot the heck out of it. Maybe 500-600 rounds down range(got the ammo CHEEP). Heck the cylinder was only 49 bucks at the time sorta made like the gated modles buy no gate. Now if you keep your loads light (38 S&W light) brass frames should hold up ok. But as I cut a loading port I did find some small voids in the frame from casting.

June 15, 2009, 09:32 PM	#8
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	I just don't think there's much good you can say about pot metal, which is exactly what ZAMAK is. It's cheap to procure and manipulate since its low melting point does not require a much more expensive foundry, which should be obvious looking at the guns constructed of it. RG's, HiPoints, Walther P22's, Cimarron's Plinkerton, 'new' Henries and the Heritage line of single actions.

June 21, 2009, 09:26 PM	#10
Smokin' gun Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Posts: 121	I don't think you can weld magnesium; if that might pose an issue. One possible thing that might be positive about brass frames is they are softer than steel and the movement of your internal parts might not get worn as quick but then again if the brass softens then everything shifts. Ummm=just brainstormin on that thought. Maybe I'm asleep. Good beginners gun though and costs less. Brass in the day was probably much stronger than your new Pietta Reb Confederate.

June 22, 2009, 01:44 AM	#12
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	My High Standard Confederate Brasser is stronger/harder than the Italian ones ... it's the Bronze content mixed with Brass that would make them stronger... in the War Against Northern Aggression the Confederacy Collected if more Bronze than Brass ... depending on the amount collected would determine the strength or tinsle or shear strength of the brass frame Revs, rifles, or Cannons... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php