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November 19, 2008, 09:17 AM | #76 | |
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From Scrap5000:
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History lesson: The requirement to retreat, which is specifically called out in Pennsylvania law, goes back to English Common Law, from which the laws of most of our states trace their origins. You would have faced that requirement in Philadelphia in 1777. Nothing new about it--except as it has evolved to relax the requirement in some circumstances. And the purpose had nothing at all to do with "political correctness". It was a fundamental precept of law and order. |
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November 19, 2008, 09:27 AM | #77 | |
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Scrap5000 wrote;
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There has always been violence and brutality then as much as now. There were criminals, brigands and professional scofflaws galore. It was as dangerous a time where even the governements of Europe sent impressement ("press gangs") out to snatch up by brutal force any able-bodied men they could find to serve in the military when the recruiting numbers came up a bit short... The genteel social class wasnt above giving or getting a good bloody nose either. Gentleman regularly beat each other with their walking canes and worse...dueling became almost a sport. It became such a common problem, both socially and economically, that dueling was outlawed on both sides of the "pond". If you really believe that it was better times then, you would be very wrong. Last edited by Creature; November 19, 2008 at 09:55 AM. Reason: spelling miztake |
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November 19, 2008, 09:53 AM | #78 |
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While I agree with both OldMarksman and Creature, can you say that extreme political correctness has influenced society for the worse?
Like I said, I agree with both of you, but Scrap might have scratched the surface of a good point...
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November 19, 2008, 09:56 AM | #79 | |
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November 19, 2008, 09:58 AM | #80 |
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i got on this post last night and ended up on that site where the lawyer gives a 30 minute speach on why you never ever ever ever give a statement to a policeman, ever. In light of that i wonder about the several posts where people suggested you call the police and tell them what happened, first guy who calls in wins, etc.....
is that really the thing to do in this scenario? call in? Im not playing devils advocate, im asking for real. Also im in virginia. |
November 19, 2008, 10:08 AM | #81 |
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Being the first to call 911 has a lot to do with how the police investigate the call and to establish who is first on record to report the situation. Being the first to call it in also goes a long way towards establishing your intent and frame of mind when the investigation makes it way to court...if and when it gets that far.
You should also read this thread: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...st+to+call+911 |
November 19, 2008, 10:09 AM | #82 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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And it's Killer Angel... as in the book |
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November 19, 2008, 10:15 AM | #83 |
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Calling in a situation on 911 is one thing....making a statement to the police is a far more serious matter which requires time and legal protection and should not be done without a lawyer present.
But this is thread-veer. |
November 19, 2008, 10:17 AM | #84 |
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can i think of a reason to not call it in if i was totally in the right? well yeah normally i would agree with you 100%......then i watched this and really all im doing it seems is confessing and giving the police everything they need to go after me if they choose to...http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/28...d-cop-agr.html
if you havent seen this take the time, its entertaining and pretty informative |
November 19, 2008, 10:43 AM | #85 |
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I agree with Scrap
Things have changed a lot for the worse since we were kids (I was born in 1960) It used to be the sign of a gentleman and good citizen to stand up for yourself, women and people less able to defend themselves against bullies.
It used to be that if you got into a fist fight somebody got beat up and that was that. If a little guy was being picked on by a big guy then somebody would step up and defend the little guy. Then we started hearing about people shooting people over petty arguments and road rage. Kids started binging guns to school either to intimidate other kids or defend against an intimidater. It got to be that we didn't dare make eye contact with other people for fear that they would shoot us. On this forum several people have written that if you see someone else in a bad situation that you should move along, it's none your concern. I guess that social responsibilty and chivalry is dead or at least very sick. What if we all looked out for each other, you know "did the right thing" put bullies quickly in there place and didn't put up with crap. I'm not saying that we should run around pulling guns on people. I think that if as a society we stopped looking away and more of us stepped up then the world would be a better place. I'm sure some of you will flame me, tell me that you are just a realist and I'm stupid for even thinking this way. I think that after 9-11 people felt this way for a short while but as a society we have a short memory. Ricky |
November 19, 2008, 11:14 AM | #86 |
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Yeah, that is sorta what I was going for Ricky... Not a mandate to "put people in their place" but just stand up for yourself... For example, in HS, defending yourself in a fight will get you expelled. There is just something wrong there...
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November 19, 2008, 11:52 AM | #87 | ||||
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From Ricky:
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Where I live, it is legal to use deadly force to defend a third person (when necessary as last resort, etc.), but attorneys strongly advise against it. The citizen does not have the immunities that the community grants to the law enforcement officer, nor does he have the training. Finally, to one happening along at the scene, what he perceives to be happening may not match reality, and his intervention could be very wrong indeed. What any of that has to do with the case at hand (one person encountering two others) I fail to see. The comment was that today's political correctness has allegedly somehow altered the constructs of the legal use of deadly force, when history tells us that that is not the case. From KLRANGL: Quote:
Here's something from a legal publication on what a defense attorney has to navigate in a case involving self defense; I think it's worth bookmarking: http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/01c1...ocument&Click= These excerpts in particular would seem to apply in the locale in question: Quote:
Do not take this as legal advice. I have provided the excerpts because I think they may add constructively to the discussion of the OPs post. I do think the entire article is worth reading and saving for anyone who chooses to carry a weapon. Last edited by OldMarksman; November 19, 2008 at 11:53 AM. Reason: typo |
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