brass

Don Parsley · May 1, 2000, 05:37 PM

I reload 40SW. After loading,some of the brass will not chanber in my case gage,while the others ran through the same resizer will.Has the case stretched or been reloaded too many times? It is always to big at the bottom.The loads i use are 5.0 WSL for a 140 grain FP, which is on bottom end or even starting load because of good performance.

[This message has been edited by Don Parsley (edited May 01, 2000).]

Big Bunny · May 1, 2000, 06:07 PM

Die may not do bottoms especially after high pressure loads. Still may chamber in gun though....
Is it a Glock.....reloading not recommended for these as per manufacturer !

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***Big Bunny***

**Mal H** · May 1, 2000, 06:23 PM

Wow, Don. You need to go over your reloading notes to be sure you aren't making some excessively high pressure rounds. If the web area of the case won't fit into a case gauge, you may be doing just that. As Big Bunny said, the average die doesn't resize the web of a case and it usually isn't necessary to do so. One of the most reliable signs of over pressure is when the web has increased in diameter, even just a little.

alan · May 1, 2000, 06:29 PM

Don:

Not familiar with the 40 caliber rounds, but Glock 45's seem to do "strange" things to cases.

My own brass, or cases fired in non Glock pistols, 45ACP, resized without problems. Range pick up, fired in Glocks, when resized ends up trying to look like a belted case. When I see that, I pitch the brass. I can "feel" the difference in the resizing operation too.

Don Parsley · May 1, 2000, 07:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don Parsley:
I reload 40SW. After loading,some of the brass will not chanber in my case gage,while the others ran through the same resizer will.Has the case stretched or been reloaded too many times? It is always to big at the bottom.The loads i use are 5.0 WSL for a 140 grain FP, which is on bottom end or even starting load because of good performance.

[This message has been edited by Don Parsley (edited May 01, 2000).][/quote]

Big Bunny · May 1, 2000, 08:28 PM

Yes...but what is the pistol and dies you use, we need more info.We are really trying to help....honest...

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***Big Bunny***

Banzai · May 1, 2000, 08:57 PM

Taken in part from the Steyer M40 review on 1911.com:

Some manufacturers of 9mm pistols simply rebarrelled, modified the breechface
and put in a stiffer recoil spring to develop their initial .40 S&W pistols.
Since the .40/10mm bullet is bigger than a 9mm, the only way to get the .40 to
feed reliably was to create an intrusive feed ramp, and possibly an oversized
chamber to match. Thus the .40 S&W "Unsupported Chamber" was born. This was a
quick and dirty fix by some manufacturers to get to market fast.
Other manufacturers either started from scratch or went through the added
expense to redesign their 9's to safely handle the .40 with a well-supported
chamber that still feeds reliably. These types of .40 pistols are therefore
safer to use, whether you shoot factory ammo or reloaded ammo.
If you want to find out if your .40 has a well supported chamber, then do
this: Measure the diameter of the lower, most expanded part of some fired
brass. After the first measurement, rotate the brass slightly and measure it
again because the brass sometimes measures greater from a certain angle
because of the 6-o'clock chamber opening affect. If your brass measures .431
or greater, then your chamber is entering into unsupported territory. Also,
put a round into the barrel and look at the 6-o'clock position of the chamber
opening. If the thin part of the brass wall is exposed, or too much brass is
exposed, you have an unsupported chamber. "Both" of these measurements are
important to determine if your chamber is well supported or not. The greatest
brass expansion occurs when shooting full power loads.
The diameter of fully supported chanber brass usually measures around .427 -.429 for full
power loads. The Glock .40 can expand brass as much as .431 .433, which is a
huge difference.
Generally speaking, ammo and gun companies don't care about reloading safety
and case life. Some of the newer reloading manuals have strong warnings about
reloading for pistols with unsupported chambers, especially concerning high-
pressure cartridges.
One positive side effect of Glock's famous unsupported chamber and their
marketing omnipresence, is that some ammo companies have beefed up their .40
S&W brass so it has a better chance of surviving when fired in a Glock
chamber.

Tom

------------------
A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!
You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed!

Casey · May 2, 2000, 08:14 AM

Don,

I also reload .40 S&W, and I ran into exactly the same problem. I had a SW99 in .40 S&W, and after firing in this gun the brass would not fit into the case guage. Even worse, if it was accidently run through another .40 S&W, it would stick in the chamber. I called Smith and Wesson, and even sent the gun back to them, and their response was that they didn't care what my problem with reloads were, it would work fine with factory ammo.

I traded this gun away and got a Beretta Brigadier Elite in .40 S&W, which has no such problem with the same and even higher pressure reloads. I think that the chamber on the SW99 was just a hair oversize, or else it was unsupported (?)... Whatever the exact reason, changing to the Beretta was my solution.

Casey

Bill Hebert · May 2, 2000, 09:35 AM

Is the Browning High Power Practical in 40 Liberty fully supported? When the barrel is removed from the weapon and a round is insterted, no brass is visable anywhere around the case. I thought that meant fully supported? Do I need instead to do the drill with measuring the case? One reason with buying a 40cal was the ready availability of brass for reloading. This shouldn't be a problem in a fully supported chamber. Right? Thanks, Bill.

May 1, 2000, 05:37 PM	#1
Don Parsley Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 17	I reload 40SW. After loading,some of the brass will not chanber in my case gage,while the others ran through the same resizer will.Has the case stretched or been reloaded too many times? It is always to big at the bottom.The loads i use are 5.0 WSL for a 140 grain FP, which is on bottom end or even starting load because of good performance. [This message has been edited by Don Parsley (edited May 01, 2000).]

May 1, 2000, 06:07 PM	#2
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Die may not do bottoms especially after high pressure loads. Still may chamber in gun though.... Is it a Glock.....reloading not recommended for these as per manufacturer ! ------------------ *Big Bunny*

May 1, 2000, 06:23 PM	#3
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,949	Wow, Don. You need to go over your reloading notes to be sure you aren't making some excessively high pressure rounds. If the web area of the case won't fit into a case gauge, you may be doing just that. As Big Bunny said, the average die doesn't resize the web of a case and it usually isn't necessary to do so. One of the most reliable signs of over pressure is when the web has increased in diameter, even just a little.

May 1, 2000, 06:29 PM	#4
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	Don: Not familiar with the 40 caliber rounds, but Glock 45's seem to do "strange" things to cases. My own brass, or cases fired in non Glock pistols, 45ACP, resized without problems. Range pick up, fired in Glocks, when resized ends up trying to look like a belted case. When I see that, I pitch the brass. I can "feel" the difference in the resizing operation too.

May 1, 2000, 07:05 PM	#5
Don Parsley Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 17	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don Parsley: I reload 40SW. After loading,some of the brass will not chanber in my case gage,while the others ran through the same resizer will.Has the case stretched or been reloaded too many times? It is always to big at the bottom.The loads i use are 5.0 WSL for a 140 grain FP, which is on bottom end or even starting load because of good performance. [This message has been edited by Don Parsley (edited May 01, 2000).][/quote]

May 1, 2000, 08:28 PM	#6
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Yes...but what is the pistol and dies you use, we need more info.We are really trying to help....honest... ------------------ *Big Bunny*

May 1, 2000, 08:57 PM	#7
Banzai Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 275	Taken in part from the Steyer M40 review on 1911.com: Some manufacturers of 9mm pistols simply rebarrelled, modified the breechface and put in a stiffer recoil spring to develop their initial .40 S&W pistols. Since the .40/10mm bullet is bigger than a 9mm, the only way to get the .40 to feed reliably was to create an intrusive feed ramp, and possibly an oversized chamber to match. Thus the .40 S&W "Unsupported Chamber" was born. This was a quick and dirty fix by some manufacturers to get to market fast. Other manufacturers either started from scratch or went through the added expense to redesign their 9's to safely handle the .40 with a well-supported chamber that still feeds reliably. These types of .40 pistols are therefore safer to use, whether you shoot factory ammo or reloaded ammo. If you want to find out if your .40 has a well supported chamber, then do this: Measure the diameter of the lower, most expanded part of some fired brass. After the first measurement, rotate the brass slightly and measure it again because the brass sometimes measures greater from a certain angle because of the 6-o'clock chamber opening affect. If your brass measures .431 or greater, then your chamber is entering into unsupported territory. Also, put a round into the barrel and look at the 6-o'clock position of the chamber opening. If the thin part of the brass wall is exposed, or too much brass is exposed, you have an unsupported chamber. "Both" of these measurements are important to determine if your chamber is well supported or not. The greatest brass expansion occurs when shooting full power loads. The diameter of fully supported chanber brass usually measures around .427 -.429 for full power loads. The Glock .40 can expand brass as much as .431 .433, which is a huge difference. Generally speaking, ammo and gun companies don't care about reloading safety and case life. Some of the newer reloading manuals have strong warnings about reloading for pistols with unsupported chambers, especially concerning high- pressure cartridges. One positive side effect of Glock's famous unsupported chamber and their marketing omnipresence, is that some ammo companies have beefed up their .40 S&W brass so it has a better chance of surviving when fired in a Glock chamber. Tom ------------------ A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration! You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed!

May 2, 2000, 08:14 AM	#8
Casey Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2000 Location: Delaware, OH, USA Posts: 279	Don, I also reload .40 S&W, and I ran into exactly the same problem. I had a SW99 in .40 S&W, and after firing in this gun the brass would not fit into the case guage. Even worse, if it was accidently run through another .40 S&W, it would stick in the chamber. I called Smith and Wesson, and even sent the gun back to them, and their response was that they didn't care what my problem with reloads were, it would work fine with factory ammo. I traded this gun away and got a Beretta Brigadier Elite in .40 S&W, which has no such problem with the same and even higher pressure reloads. I think that the chamber on the SW99 was just a hair oversize, or else it was unsupported (?)... Whatever the exact reason, changing to the Beretta was my solution. Casey

May 2, 2000, 09:35 AM	#9
Bill Hebert Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 1999 Posts: 180	Is the Browning High Power Practical in 40 Liberty fully supported? When the barrel is removed from the weapon and a round is insterted, no brass is visable anywhere around the case. I thought that meant fully supported? Do I need instead to do the drill with measuring the case? One reason with buying a 40cal was the ready availability of brass for reloading. This shouldn't be a problem in a fully supported chamber. Right? Thanks, Bill.