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Old June 16, 2007, 03:08 PM   #176
mordis
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I know thread necromancy is a bad thing but id like an update, Please. I tried open carry here in indiana for the first time a week ago and nothing came of it. Well besides a short and pleasent conversation with a fellow LTCH holder. WHom didnt know that indiana law allowed open carry.
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Old June 16, 2007, 03:15 PM   #177
Manedwolf
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Talk about an ANCIENT thread...

And to me, based on the original account, the guy was guilty of being a ________. The openly carried weapon IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS BACK was not in his control, as one of the cops showed when he snuck up behind him and grabbed it. A nutcase could have done the same and promptly shot him in the back, then opened up on other customers. Giving any criminal that comes along a free gun for the taking is not reponsible carrying of a firearm.

SOB is not for open carry, it's for concealed carry. Open carry is best done on the hip, where you can see your weapon at any time.

He might not have broken any laws, but that was, to be blunt, stupid. The cop showed him just how stupid he was with the ease of disarmament performed on him. He should be grateful it was a cop.

Last edited by TheBluesMan; June 16, 2007 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Redacted for ad hominem attack
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Old June 16, 2007, 07:31 PM   #178
Hunter Rose
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I am NOT gonna re-read the whole thread. But as I recall, the OP had taken his coat off due to temp, and had forgotten that his pistol was now visible...

Let's cut a LITTLE slack: this was a case of no harm, no foul (on the OP's part: the actions of the police afterward was another matter)...
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Old June 16, 2007, 10:15 PM   #179
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If you go back and reread the posts, you will see that he didn't "forget" that his pistol was now visible, he knowingly carried open. While I do agree that it shouldn't be a problem, in a city setting like that, it's really not going to gain any support for gun rights!

And, I also agree, as I've posted earlier in this thread, that the OP was in Condition White, which NOBODY should be while carrying (or even when unarmed, although carrying a handgun definately requires RESPONSIBILITY), concealed or open. That fact was proven when he was surrounded by police, pushed against the magazine shelf and disarmed. He shouldn't be angry at the police for doing that, he should thank them for it. Maybe now he'll be at least a little more aware of his surroundings! Just think what would have happened if he was disarmed by a criminal that he was completely oblivious of. Getting himself injured or killed is one thing, but now a criminal would have a weapon that could be turned on innocent bystanders.

It's called responsibility. But, instead of taking responsibility of being taken by total surprise and disarmed, he wants to blame someone else.
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Results of the 1998 Massachusetts gun laws:

It is important to keep in mind the ISP reports show that firearm related homicides decreased 56% from 1994 to 1998.

From 1998 to 2002, firearm related homicides increased 48%. During the same time, firearm related accidental deaths have increased 200%.

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Old June 17, 2007, 07:08 AM   #180
Al Norris
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How many times are we gonna beat mvpel up?

He has been thoroughly thrashed, both here and on THR. Spin it anyway you want, it still doesn't justify what the police did.
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Old June 17, 2007, 08:25 AM   #181
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Seems we like to trash ourselves, more lately than in the past at that. The whole idea of taking a rock solid position or not worrying about what those who won't like us/our hobby think regardless of what we do anyway is just too tough.
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Old June 17, 2007, 01:27 PM   #182
Mike Irwin
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"although carrying a handgun definately requires RESPONSIBILITY"

OK, Hogleg,

How does carrying openly in a state where that is perfectly legal not responsible?

Since when is obeying the law being irresponsible?

So, absent any overt threat at all police should simply manhandle every individual they see based on the presumption that while they're acting legally, they may be carrying a gun?

Since when it is responsible for the police to be totally and completely ignorant of state laws?

Since when it is responsible for the clerk at the book store (or whoever reported it) to panic and phone in a false complaint?


Let's extend this a little further...

Carrying a firearm while hunting is perfectly legal, and hunting is a routine activity in New Hampshire.

Should, however, people stop carrying firearms during hunting simply because someone might panic?

Seems to me that we should be expecting a little more from, at a very minimum, the police in this matter.

Hiding and cowering isn't any way to win converts, either.
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Old June 17, 2007, 07:17 PM   #183
Hawgleg44
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Maybe you should reread my post. I didn't say it was irresponsible to carry openly. What he was completely irresponsible about was carrying openly and being totally oblivious to his surroundings, to the point of anyone as tall enough to reach his waist could have, and did, disarmed him! That's complete irresponsibility. If you aren't willing to take the responsibility of being in complete control of your weapon, leave it at home. That must have been one hell of a magazine he was reading if it distracted him enough to the point of not being aware he was surrounded by police!

Leave your guns at home while hunting? [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] are you talking about?
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Results of the 1998 Massachusetts gun laws:

It is important to keep in mind the ISP reports show that firearm related homicides decreased 56% from 1994 to 1998.

From 1998 to 2002, firearm related homicides increased 48%. During the same time, firearm related accidental deaths have increased 200%.

Will work for ammo.
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Old June 17, 2007, 11:34 PM   #184
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Ah, the wonderful magic of the internet.



Hawgleg is absolutely right. PAY ATTENTION!! If you're using a new holster, make sure you PAY ATTENTION to how it is fit and secured until you get used to it.

When I open carry nowadays, I use my Bianchi #5, and when I conceal, I use my SmartCarry, though I need to drop some winter weight to get back to reasonable comfort in size 36 pants. I've been using the Bianchi more often in the meantime.

The good news is that we finished our adoption exactly one year ago last Thursday, and our new son is a delight and an utter joy, and New Hampshire is the best state in the nation in which to complete an international adoption.

From last week:

Needless to say, we're very flattered when people tell us we look like him.

As for recent tales of open carry, I was in Target the other day getting ready for the camping trip next week, and Jordan was just flipping out about some frog or some such that he couldn't "after pay for it, after take home, open up, okay?" (He's very, very, verrry cute when he asks like that.) Busy day, not enough sleep, general three-year-old frustration, whatever.

A young fellow, maybe 10, with his mom, approached me from the side in th middle of all Jordan's ruckus and asked me if I was a police officer, but didn't stick around long enough for me to answer after getting Jordan to stop screaming.

My Massachusetts Liberal mother-in-law asked earlier this evening if I was expecting a riot, in my shirt and tie and Bianchi-holstered Glock 30, as Caren and I were leaving for the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance annual dinner, and I said that if I was expecting a riot, I wouldn't go there.

She considers "self defense" to be synonymous with "911" - I'll have to find some time to do the "count to 300" thought experiment with her.
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Old June 18, 2007, 08:47 AM   #185
Hawgleg44
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Congrats on your adoption. A little OT (OK, WAY off topic), but how is NH better for an international adoption than other states. My wife and I are looking into it now. We're also considering a move to NH. If it's easier there, that my be a perfect way to move things along quicker.
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Results of the 1998 Massachusetts gun laws:

It is important to keep in mind the ISP reports show that firearm related homicides decreased 56% from 1994 to 1998.

From 1998 to 2002, firearm related homicides increased 48%. During the same time, firearm related accidental deaths have increased 200%.

Will work for ammo.
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Old June 18, 2007, 02:38 PM   #186
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More important and back on thread mvpel, when is your statue of limitations up for filing your harassment lawsuit and are you going to be able to continue with it.

Off thread and personal; Congratulations.
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Old June 30, 2008, 07:20 AM   #187
mvpel
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The limit expired, and I wasn't able to continue with the suit. Which is unfortunate:

Another Open Carry incident in Manchester

On June 8, 2008, two friends had a play-by-play reprise of my own incident documented above, while they were walking down the street carrying openly, right down to the condescending lecture. Just when we thought we had them straightened out... *sigh*

It would appear that sterner measures are called for.

Yesterday afternoon, fourteen of us did an open carry litter pickup along the streets bordering the Manchester Police Department and elsewhere - not "stern," granted, but at least "in your face."
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Old July 16, 2008, 05:47 PM   #188
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mvpel, any updates on the latest open carry in Manchester problem?

from June 8?
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Old July 26, 2008, 08:15 PM   #189
Al Norris
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A bit over a dozen posts were just deleted as being off topic.

If you can't figure out what the topic for this thread is, PM me.
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Old July 28, 2008, 10:11 AM   #190
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Some were actually right on topic. Got deleted anyway. Maybe I should post more anti cop stuff. Bet they dont get deleted.
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Old July 28, 2008, 10:24 AM   #191
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXnK5UyRI

Tell me this whole thing is not staged? Cause enough of a problem walking down Main Street scaring people and sooner or later lawmakers will ban open carry.
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Old July 28, 2008, 11:02 AM   #192
Stagger Lee
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+1 Conn Trooper. Those guys were total tools and if anything causes animosity between LEO's and citizens, it's crap like that. Deliberate staging of incidents and provoking LE for no valid reason coupled with plenty of rudeness and sarcasm, all by the so-called "good citizens".
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Old July 28, 2008, 11:52 AM   #193
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Good Lord above, these are the good guys?? Crap like that will make me consider not open carrying.

Who was that hysterical idiot raving on the sideline? What a tool is right. Hey, pal, if you ever see me being "harrassed" for open carrying, just leave me the heck alone, okay? I'll make out better on my own.
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Old July 28, 2008, 12:02 PM   #194
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Quote:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXnK5UyRI

Tell me this whole thing is not staged? Cause enough of a problem walking down Main Street scaring people and sooner or later lawmakers will ban open carry.
I watched your link. I didn't see anyone being scared. The heavier set, shaved head, city policeman had his arms folded and hands under his armpits. I don't understand that to be a posture anyone takes when he thinks a threat is imminent.

The state trooper seemed courteous, even while requesting information, but it is worth asking who caused the problem in the video. If the police had let the fellow pass, what would the problem have been?


I would analogise this to a traffic stop for a bumper sticker a patrolman doesn't like. Even if the officer doing it is otherwise 100% professional and courteous, it is still an undue annoyance.
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Old July 28, 2008, 01:25 PM   #195
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I wasnt takling about the cops being scared, I'm talking about your average citizen, soccer mom, yuppie, etc. The same people I assume are making complaints about people walking around with guns on display. In the incident in the original post, someone made a complaint to police. Obviously they didn't care for seeing somebody with a gun at the book store. If those people, who are, I would imagine, already anti gun (they are making complaints to police about the gun), make enough of a stink, bye bye open carry.

Once again (the original was deleted, lucky me) just because you have the right to do something does not make it a good idea. You have the right to wear a speedo to the pool. However, I would not.

Gotta love when Mas Ayoob, who I think everyone at least agrees is an expert, says its not a good idea, your right or not, and some people just have to do it because its their "right".
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Old July 28, 2008, 01:31 PM   #196
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Quote:
Gotta love when Mas Ayoob, who I think everyone at least agrees is an expert, says its not a good idea, your right or not, and some people just have to do it because its their "right".
I suppose Rosa Parks thought she had a right to sit on the bus, too.

I have a limited sympathy for the position of the people in the video. If you aren't permitted to exercise a right without police harrassment, in what sense do you have the right?
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Old July 28, 2008, 01:47 PM   #197
Al Norris
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If you wish to discuss the legal and political ramifications of open carry, in general, you will have to open a new thread. This thread was about a singular incident from several years ago. Not about what is right or wrong in general.

Closed for going off topic, again.
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