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Old February 14, 2019, 03:13 AM   #26
eastbank
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we just do not see the mossbergs at the clay bird games. we have several men who have shot 870 shotguns here for over 40 years and have well over 50,000 rounds thru them with only minor replacement parts they replaces themselves. I have a 870 express in 20 ga that's 5-6 years old that is my knock around bad weather and lend field shotgun with no problems and it cost all of 149.00 on close out at Walmart.
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Old February 14, 2019, 10:36 AM   #27
Drm50
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Personally I don't like either. I have a 870 that I bought new in 1966. It still looks new because I never liked it. Having said that I sold guns for over 20yrs. Sold a ton of 870s and
had very few in for repairs. Biggest problem with them was loss of Barrel Nut and mag spring retainer. As for Moss, sold bunch of them also. Number 1 problem was the plastic tang safety. I usually talked customer into aftermarket metal replacement. NO. #2 was broken plastic trigger guard. It is apples & oranges but if I had to pick one it would be the
870 and not one of the low end models.
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Old February 14, 2019, 10:50 AM   #28
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I chose the Mossberg purely for the control set-up. To me, the Mossberg safety location is easier to access and manipulate. Also, the slide release is so mush more natural , for me. I just raise my middle finger a bit and can activate it while still in a ready to shoot grip/finger positions. I felt that the Remington controls made me have to contort my firing hand unnecessarily to manipulate them.

I haven't had a problem with my Mossberg yet.
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Old February 14, 2019, 02:15 PM   #29
T. O'Heir
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"...Ford vs Chevy argument..." Exactly.
The difference between an 870 and a 500 is $2(the 500's MSRP is that much more than an 870 Express.), if the 870 doesn't have 'Wingmaster' on it. You can pay about $400 more for the Remington if it has 'Wingmaster' on it. What the receiver is made of makes no difference.
Mind you, before Remington decided to have an entry level brand called 'Express' an 870 was an 870. 'Wingmaster' wasn't always a higher end shotgun. Mine wouldn't say 'Wingmaster' on if they were.
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Old February 15, 2019, 04:20 AM   #30
Roamin_Wade
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T. O’Heir, roger that. The synthetic stock trend has created an okie-doke on what were ordinary guns. You want glossy? Sure, it’ll be 400 more dollars than it used to be...
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Old February 15, 2019, 07:33 AM   #31
Guggmeister
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I prefer mossberg. Easier to load, better safety. Two extractors.


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Old February 15, 2019, 02:20 PM   #32
eastbank
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fourty years from now lay a 870 and a 500 on the table and ask your favorite grandson to pick one, I know as I did it and my grandson said give me your dad,s model 12.
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Old February 15, 2019, 04:18 PM   #33
dgludwig
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Quote:
The BPS and M37 take their design influence from the Remington Model 17.
In terms of "design" as opposed to function, the Browning BPS has little in common with the Ithaca Model 37. In terms of function, both shotguns have bottom ejection but they get there in different ways.

Quote:
Mossberg design is borrowed from the Remington Model 31.
Other than both being pump shotguns, how so?
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Old February 15, 2019, 04:55 PM   #34
KnightofCydonia
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Rem M17 - According to these guys the M17 lineage runs in the 870, 500, and Ithaca 37
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raIJWCbZ8Yw

Rem M31 - This guy thinks there's more influence on the M500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEkubBJHj2w&t=3s

For some reason I only enjoy pump action shotguns and their history, more so than semi-autos. I'm hoping to add a BPS to my collection soon to take a look at it. It has the smoothest action of the current offerings.
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Old February 15, 2019, 07:59 PM   #35
Drm50
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I'm with eastbank on this one. Has a smart grandson, wants the M12 Win. The Win 12, Rem 31 and Ith 37 aren't comparable with the stuff they put out now.
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Old Yesterday, 01:37 AM   #36
KnightofCydonia
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How about those old Steven M77 pumps, High Standard, and S&W 3000?
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Old Yesterday, 06:56 AM   #37
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I own three 870s, two of them pre 1980 and will likely be buying a 4th when I get back to the land of the big PX (always wanted a Marine Magnum, I think it is finally time). I've also carried a short PGO 590 on my back for knocking hinges off of doors and it never failed to do the job. Given a choice I'd buy an 870, but if I had to close my eyes and pick at random either will get the job done.

I also put more rounds through my Beretta A-400 in a year than I have through all of the 870s combined so there is some food for thought.
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Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM   #38
DPris
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It was a shame when S&W dropped the 3000.
One of the best defensive pumps ever made.
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Old Yesterday, 04:48 PM   #39
dgludwig
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Somewhere I still have a review of the Howa-made, Smith&Wesson Model 3000 pump shotgun, published in an le journal, comparing it with the very similar Remington Model 870; both having steel receivers and similar control functions and looking very much alike. As I recall, the reviewer reported that the Model 870, at least at one time, came with a known, if rare, malfunction potential (a shell falling back into the carrier, preventing the shotgun from cycling). The Model 3000's design supposedly prevented this unlikely but possible stoppage.

I had a Model 3000 for several years before selling it or trading if off; one of those decisions (among more than a couple) that I've come to regret.
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Old Today, 08:39 PM   #40
Dfariswheel
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For a time S&W sold the imported Model 3000.
This was when they were trying to take the entire law enforcement market.
They already owned the revolver market, and were introducing holster, handcuff, gas guns, ammunition, and thought they'd take Remington's huge market share of the police shotgun market.

Remington ate their lunch and soon after S&W dropped the shotgun and most of the rest to "Get back to our core market.... police revolvers".
The problem was, the 3000 was a nice gun but had nothing to offer over the 870 and too many people remembered the disastrous S&W Model 916, which was a version of the old Noble shotgun.
It's believed that the 916 was made for S&W by a contractor.
It was so bad, at one point S&W actually debated buying them back to salvage the hit on the S&W name caused by the 916.

Having been burned by Winchester with the 1200 and 1300 shotguns law enforcement simply stayed with the well proven 870.

After S&W dropped it, Mossberg picked up and marketed the Howa made 3000 for a couple of years, then when they too dropped it Howa imported it under their own name for a couple of years.
For a time the 3000 had a sort of cult following with individual police.
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