First Gun Help?

DAFL · June 21, 2015, 10:12 AM

Please don't kill me about posting a thread that has probably killed the horse, beat it with a bat, went to its funeral, dug it up and left it on it's families font porch.

Hey everyone, I'm getting my CCW here in FL (no open carry

)next weekend. When I go to the shop I want to have a couple guns in my head that I know are good guns so the owner doesn't try to pull a fast one and try to sell me a $250 gun for $400. I've also researched striker vs DA/SA and I don't think I'd mind the learning curve.

I'll answer your questions, "why don't you just go and shoot some?" The closest gun range that rents guns is 45 minutes away and I have a busy schedule so that's going to be after I get my CCW and actually when I go to buy the gun (I hope then it'll just click and the one that feels the best will stick out to me). I started out with a bunch of polymer guns (PPQ, 2022, FNX, XD, etc.) after some nit picking over clip size, weight, (too many)safeties, and other features, I've eliminated some.

What I'm left with, and what I need help with is figuring out the main differences between my remanding choices. I'm looking for a good build quality, good quality control, something that's solid and a great shooter out of the box, something with longevity, and most importantly, most reliable in a stressful situation, something that I can trust will go bang as I'm getting my armed security guard license.

Now, without shooting anything yet, I've pre-concluded that the .40 S&W would be a decent round to start with, it seems you get a good compromise (not too much of a sacrifice on ammo with a little more power, also seems like its more available down here) If you feel the need to tell me that I NEED to start on 9mm then feel free, please redirect yourself to the former sentence of me stating I don't mind a learning curve.

These are all full size, but I'm a big framed (still fat) guy so I don't THINK it will affect me much (6' 285 lbs.)

The finalists are:

M&P 40
I feel like this would be a great choice because of the aftermarket support and not to mention this guns is made by the same people that designed the .40 caliber and this gun was made around the round, not vice versa.

G22
The only reason I'm considering this gun is because almost EVERYONE is suggesting that its a gun to consider, idk if there is anything that really sticks out to me about this gun. Definitely doesn't look the most comfortable.

FNX
Here is the DA/SA! I feel like I would like the DA/SA system more so than the Striker, just because it would be more open, mentally settling because I could see what's going on. Not to mention is comes with three clips.

SR40
Nothing really sticks out to me about this gun, I just had no reason to take it off the list..

So what do you experts think?

Blindstitch · June 21, 2015, 10:26 AM

I bought an SD9ve for $330 and like the way it works. The only thing I don't like is the trigger. After adding an apex trigger kit it got way better. I didn't want to spend a lot of money so that's why I got it but it causes me to wonder if I should have got the M&P9 for the better options right from the start.

Amegatek · June 21, 2015, 10:40 AM

My first carry gun was a Glock 19 (9mm). 11 years later, still in my carry rotation. My other carry gun is a Ruger SR1911LW CMD (.45 ACP). Both are great. Try a few out, maybe add some to your list just for comparison sake. Then make your decision. Hopefully, one will stick out for you.

Joe_Pike · June 21, 2015, 11:03 AM

I'm a 9mm guy. Let's face it, handguns are pretty anemic when it comes to power. We carry them because they are convenient. So, I'll take capacity coupled with +p ammo every day if I think I want to carry a bigger firearm (I prefer pocket carry personally). The firearms you have listed should have 9mm counterparts (SR9, Glock 17, etc.). For me I would consider the Glock 19 with 15+1 capacity (or a G23 and get a 9mm barrel so you have choices) or something from Springield Armory's XD/XDM lineup as there are plenty of reliable choices in their catalog that are very comfortable in the hand and won't break the bank. Plus 9mm ammo is cheaper IF you stock up when there isn't panic buying going on.

steelbird · June 21, 2015, 11:08 AM

I don't want to assume anything from a first post, but what kind if experience do you have with firearms? You've mentioned that you're a big guy, but the body build may not have much of a bearing on what your wrists and forearms can handle. I've seen big fellas have trouble with a 9mm, and petite ladies shooting monster guns I wouldn't touch. That range may be far away, and difficult to find time to get to, but it's worth taking that extra time and effort to know what works for you before you go spending money and time on a caliber/platform that may not be suitable for you. If you do have some experience with, however, and you're comfortable with a .40, then go for it. I myself, am not too fond of it for the usual reason that others mention - it's just too snappy for me.

BigBL87 · June 21, 2015, 11:08 AM

Given everything you said, I think an SD40VE would be a good choice. Relatively inexpensive yet the SD line has shown to be very reliable. Now, me personally I prefer hammer fired so it wouldn't be my first choice. I prefer to have a manual safety as well.

I started (and stayed) with 9mm with cost as a big reason, but also because with modern self defense bullets you really aren't trading away much in stopping power at all by going with a 9mm vs 40. I like cheaper ammo because it means I can afford to practice more.

rt11002003 · June 21, 2015, 11:09 AM

My favorite carry gun is a Kimber SOLO 9mm. It's almost tiny, very accurate and comfortable to shoot. My second favorite is probably the SIG p239 9mm SAS Gen 2; it's a fabulous gun, slightly larger than the SOLO, more accurate and more comfortable to shoot.

I don't care for the .40 round , too snappy. They don't seem to be as stable a shooter as the .45. If I were going to carry a full size gun, it would likely be the SIG 1911 .45 MAXX.

You should get at least as many different recommendations as the number of folks who respond.

DAFL · June 21, 2015, 11:12 AM

thanks for the quick response guys! I went to the local gun shop they only had the M&P and the sr40, but out of those two I definitely liked the sr40 more, sure the M&P was more comfortable, but I felt more in control of the SR40, unfortunately they dont have a range so i couldnt shoot any, and i guess thats what it all comes down to. So I'm about to head to the range 45 minutes away to shoot some! wish me luck!

steelbird · June 21, 2015, 11:17 AM

Forgot to ask - where are you located in FL?
and FL is not COMPLETELY concealed only - there are some circumstances where you can open carry - these relate to outdoor hunting/fishing/camping activities.

rtpzwms · June 21, 2015, 11:22 AM

DAFL

First Gun?

What is your shooting experience?

The pistols you list are fine pistols if you can hit the broad side of a barn. What size are your hands? What worries me here is "as I'm getting my armed security guard license", the reason that concerns me is years ago at an indoor range I found my self shooting next to 3 security guards. They collectively could not find the target at 7 yards. I'm not saying that you are one of these it just brings back memories of the safest target I can remember. I think the only ones in trouble would be the patrons at the mall they were protecting.

You said that your a big guy so I'm guessing you have large hands. I would point to the G22 if that is the case. But have you picked one up and does it feel good in your hands? I don't care for Glocks personally but they are a fine firearm. I have owned Glocks but not now.

If that is your choice I would recommend that you buy it and the conversion kit for 22 as well. It will increase your practice, decrease your practice costs and allow you to focus on the fundamentals of good shooting.

No matter your choice I would recommend the 22 conversion if available and if not then a 22 that most closely mirrors your choice.

Mastrogiacomo · June 21, 2015, 11:26 AM

I'm not really fond of any of the guns on the list. I'd suggest a Glock 19 or hold out for the Sig 225 that's about to be re-released.

Laura

marine6680 · June 21, 2015, 12:19 PM

Are you really wanting a full size pistol for carry? If you have the frame for it, and choose a good holster, concealing a full size can be done without much trouble. Though the slightly smaller compact models are easier to carry while still keeping a decent size for a full grip..

Which brings me to...

G19... Good compromise of size/weight and magazine capacity. The grip is a little cramped compared to the g17, but not too bad, and some easy mods improve it a lot. I prefer the gen 4 glock, I think they feel better in the hand, I hated the gen 3 feel, but the gen 4 was good enough for me to buy one.

If you want a larger size...

The m&p is a great pistol, though I disliked the stock trigger... An Apex trigger kit makes them sweet, the best striker trigger I have felt. I really love mine now that I have an Apex in it, it is my favorite striker pistol I own, and now own the compact version (closer to sub compact in size) as well. They are just so comfortable in my hands, and the recoil characteristics are very nice.

The g17 is a good pistol, if you like the feel of the glock.

I have shot an FNX, and liked it, but that is all I can say about it.

The Ruger SR line is supposed to be good from what I hear; I have no real experience with it.

You mentioned the Walther PPQ... Why is it not on the list? I think it is a very comfortable/ergonomic pistol with the best out of the box striker trigger. I want to pick one up myself soon.

Another option you did not mention is the H&K VP9... I love mine almost as much as my m&p... If it wasn't for the Apex trigger in my m&p, the vp9 would be my favorite. Very comfortable/ergonomic pistol, with a very good trigger. And I LOVE the paddle mag release. (the PPQ can be had with one as well... Overall the PPQ and VP9 feel similar in the hand, the vp9 is more customizable to different hand sizes with its back strap and side plate options, but the PPQ trigger is better)

Did you notice I suggested all 9mm?

Go with 9mm... Practice ammo is cheaper, more capacity in the same frame, and lower recoil.

There is so little as to be no difference between the effectiveness of 9mm, 40, and 45...

You want hollow point ammo of a newer design... Federal HST, original Speer gold dots, Winchester PDX1 (or their defend line), or one of the Hornaday critical line. You want 124gr or heavier in 9mm... I prefer 124gr. Don't get 9mm +p rounds, standard pressure actually works better... More penetration... Proper penetration is important, it is second only to good aim. All the ones I mentioned perform well in tests and penetrate to around 15" in gel tests. (12-18" is the standard, around 15" is considered ideal)

40 is a good round... While it does have some advantages over 9mm in certain areas, those advantages do not counter it's disadvantages, for most shooters anyway. Barrier performance is not as important to most shooters as it would be to a police officer, for example.

I used to be a 40 advocate, but recent hollow point ammo designs have changed that. So I feel most shooters will be served better by 9mm.

Due to the nature of guns, and terminal performance being more taboo subjects among the general population... Study of wound effects is less prevalent... So people try to fill in the gaps of knowledge with other things.. Things like "power" and "energy" when these things have little to do with the effectiveness of pistol rounds. (rifle rounds are a different thing)

There is more good info and actual studies available now, but the gun world can be stubborn and resistant to change... So there are those who don't accept the fact that 9mm has improved to the point that it is as good as 40.

If you still want 40, then by all means, get a pistol chambered in it. All the pistols I mentioned have a 40 option. (the VP9 does not have a VP40 counterpart yet thoigh) and all the things I said about the 9mm versions apply to the 40 versions as well.

Cosmodragoon · June 21, 2015, 12:56 PM

I've shot, owned, and carried guns in 9mm, .40, and .45. I like 9mm and .45 depending on the situation. I really tried to like .40 but there was just something about the recoil that made it less pleasant than either 9mm or .45, despite .45 being generally more powerful. I had done some digging, here and elsewhere, for the perfect platform for .40 so that I could learn to love it. I was getting ready to invest in a CX4/PX4 combo for .40 when Ruger jammed me up with a bunch of new guns in what's become my favorite revolver caliber: .327 Federal. I just didn't have room to adopt .40 anymore!

That said, I'm an SA/DA guy when I'm not carrying a revolver. I love the FNX-45! I'm a big guy and it feels great in hand. It shoots very well and for years, I think it was the highest capacity .45 handgun. I also liked the controls, which were good for decocked SA/DA guys like me or your cocked-and-locked guys. It is definitely a cold-weather CCW up here given the size but I think it would be perfect for uniform carry if you go the security route.

TunnelRat · June 21, 2015, 12:58 PM

The local gun stores near me have shelves of used 40SW pistols. It's gotten to the point where the local guy I use for consignments stopped taking in 40SW pistols. He can't move them and when he does it's been so long that neither the owner nor he are happy with the result.

Most of the original owners bought it for the same reasons you mention. Still good capacity, but more "knockdown" power than a 9mm. The problem is the recoil from 40SW can be both unpleasant for new shooters and induce bad habits, such as flinching. In the end they end up with a gun that they don't enjoy shooting and can't shoot particularly well. A lot of times they either sell the pistol or just don't shoot it much.

Now of course there are exceptions, and experienced shooters may have no issue at all with the 40SW. But the reality is it performs nearly identically to 9mm. It may have some edge in barrier penetration, but if that is a concern get 147 gr 9mm defensive ammo and you'll be set. There's a reason it's so available in the shops. Because a lot of the general public has stopped shooting 40SW. Even a number of LE agencies are switching over. If you want a 40SW at some point I have no problem with it and it's your money. But it would not be my recommended caliber for a first gun.

osbornk · June 21, 2015, 01:03 PM

Quote:

I bought an SD9ve for $330 and like the way it works. The only thing I don't like is the trigger. After adding an apex trigger kit it got way better. I didn't want to spend a lot of money so that's why I got it but it causes me to wonder if I should have got the M&P9 for the better options right from the start.

I bought the same gun for $289.99 and have been very pleased with it. It is the same size and weight of a Glock 19 for hundreds of dollars less. If you're new to handguns, you should probably get 9mm so you can afford ammo to practice with and consider a larger caliber later if you wish. The trigger was fine for me since I also have a DA/SA revolver.

DAFL · June 21, 2015, 02:04 PM

I just got back from the range, and let me just insert my foot into my mouth over what i said of the 9mm, unfortunately they didnt have any .40s I could try, but I did get to try the .45 M&P and I wasn't that bad with it. Definitely not as good as I was with the 9 in which I tried the Glock, which I wasn't really a fan of, just didn't feel like I had a good hold on the gun. I definitely liked the M&P most, out of those two, I even felt more comfortable with the M&P .45 than I did with the 9mm Glock, but they didn't have much of a selection. I really want to get my hands on an SR and now that I've shot I can say that I would definitely like to start on 9mm (go ahead and say I told you so) Not that I couldnt handle the .45 or the .40 that i havent shot yet, i was just really consistent and accurate with the 9. I might consider the sig 2022 (any comments on this gun?)

BigBL87 · June 21, 2015, 02:12 PM

No experience with the Sig, but I will say like you I never could like Glock. I think it's the grip angle that is uncomfortable.

I personally love my B6P, only cost me $250. Now, if you have the money I'd buy something nicer/more expensive, but it's a heck of a gun for the money. In that same vein, since you like the SA/DA I'd really think about a CZ75 or one of its variants (the B6P is a Turkish clone of the CZ75).

DAFL · June 21, 2015, 02:19 PM

I'll look into the cz75 thanks!

davem · June 21, 2015, 02:23 PM

Are you set on a semi-auto? Have you thought about a revolver?

DAFL · June 21, 2015, 02:25 PM

I've dabbled in the thought of a revolver, but I'm really looking for 14+ rounds

11mm · June 21, 2015, 02:27 PM

I've shot the Sig 2022 and I owned an SR9c and it they're both great platforms for 9mm. Right now I have an M&P in 45 and it's quickly growing to be a favorite of mine. My only experience with Glocks is the 20 in 10mm but it's been in every way acceptable, I find I Like the M&P better but I'd be hard pressed to complain about a Glock.

T. O'Heir · June 21, 2015, 02:29 PM

You need to go to a shop and try a bunch of handguns on for size, then decide how much money you want to spend(including the belt and holster.) first.
Find Glocks are kind of slippery myself. Not a big deal since you can buy a rubber sleeve to fix that.
Oh and 45 minutes is nothing.

jmhyer · June 21, 2015, 02:36 PM

You've got a learning curve. You're comfortable with that...good. So I like that you're gravitating to 9mm. Mostly because it's more affordable to shoot a lot.

Sounds like you're excluding Glock for the reason you mentioned...that's fine.

ALL OF THE REMAINING MAKES ON YOUR LIST ARE EXCELLENT AND RELIABLE OUT OF THE BOX, so rest your mind on that issue.

So, what's left? You mentioned (too many) safeties. If that means you don't like manual thumb safeties, then I'm pretty sure that excludes the SR.

Now, from what's left, I think you need to really decide between striker fired vs. DA/SA with a decocker. Only you can decide that and it doesn't sound like you have any hands-on with the DA/SA so that makes it hard. I think you really need to make an effort to borrow or rent one of those in order to really make an informed decision. The FNX and the SP2022 that you've mentioned are fine guns if you decide you like the DA/SA.

But if you decide in favor of a striker fired gun, then the only one that remains on your personal list is the M&P. I own and would trust my life to an M&P. Done, right?

Well maybe not, but I will finish with this about other striker fired guns...
I also own and would trust my life to a VP9 and an FNS9. And, while I don't own them, I would also trust my life to a P320 or a PPQ.

Good luck and enjoy this process. It's fun.

DAFL · June 21, 2015, 03:01 PM

jmhyer what a great response! I wish they had a hammer fire I could try but I didn't get the opportunity to. I guess I'll have to go back to the shop and see if I can't dry fire some of them. So it's basically coming down to the M&P vs cz75 (which might be out of my price range, unless i can find a good deal) 2022, or FNX. Can't really make a decision without holding them, but out of those previous three, any one of them stick out for good or bad reasons? the CZ75 has been tried and true, but maybe newer is better? What's y'alls opinions?

Slimjim9 · June 21, 2015, 03:29 PM

I like jmhyer's analysis and think you should go with the M&P 9. Striker is less of a learning curve. When I was deciding between striker and DA/SA I shot a Glock 19 and SP2022 back to back. The consistent trigger pull of the G19 won me over. It felt fine and shot well. Done. I was not comfortable at all with the SP. DA was crazy heavy and the SA was so light it scared me quite frankly. Could I have gotten over "the learning curve"? Probably, but I figured it was better to go with what felt more "natural" to me.

View Poll Results: Pick the one you would want to carry.
M&P 40	13	39.39%
G22	10	30.30%
FNX 40	6	18.18%
SR40	4	12.12%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

June 21, 2015, 10:12 AM	#1
DAFL Junior Member Join Date: June 18, 2015 Posts: 6	First Gun Help? Please don't kill me about posting a thread that has probably killed the horse, beat it with a bat, went to its funeral, dug it up and left it on it's families font porch. Hey everyone, I'm getting my CCW here in FL (no open carry )next weekend. When I go to the shop I want to have a couple guns in my head that I know are good guns so the owner doesn't try to pull a fast one and try to sell me a $250 gun for $400. I've also researched striker vs DA/SA and I don't think I'd mind the learning curve. I'll answer your questions, "why don't you just go and shoot some?" The closest gun range that rents guns is 45 minutes away and I have a busy schedule so that's going to be after I get my CCW and actually when I go to buy the gun (I hope then it'll just click and the one that feels the best will stick out to me). I started out with a bunch of polymer guns (PPQ, 2022, FNX, XD, etc.) after some nit picking over clip size, weight, (too many)safeties, and other features, I've eliminated some. What I'm left with, and what I need help with is figuring out the main differences between my remanding choices. I'm looking for a good build quality, good quality control, something that's solid and a great shooter out of the box, something with longevity, and most importantly, most reliable in a stressful situation, something that I can trust will go bang as I'm getting my armed security guard license. Now, without shooting anything yet, I've pre-concluded that the .40 S&W would be a decent round to start with, it seems you get a good compromise (not too much of a sacrifice on ammo with a little more power, also seems like its more available down here) If you feel the need to tell me that I NEED to start on 9mm then feel free, please redirect yourself to the former sentence of me stating I don't mind a learning curve. These are all full size, but I'm a big framed (still fat) guy so I don't THINK it will affect me much (6' 285 lbs.) The finalists are: M&P 40 I feel like this would be a great choice because of the aftermarket support and not to mention this guns is made by the same people that designed the .40 caliber and this gun was made around the round, not vice versa. G22 The only reason I'm considering this gun is because almost EVERYONE is suggesting that its a gun to consider, idk if there is anything that really sticks out to me about this gun. Definitely doesn't look the most comfortable. FNX Here is the DA/SA! I feel like I would like the DA/SA system more so than the Striker, just because it would be more open, mentally settling because I could see what's going on. Not to mention is comes with three clips. SR40 Nothing really sticks out to me about this gun, I just had no reason to take it off the list.. So what do you experts think?

June 21, 2015, 11:03 AM	#4
Joe_Pike Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Posts: 1,581	I'm a 9mm guy. Let's face it, handguns are pretty anemic when it comes to power. We carry them because they are convenient. So, I'll take capacity coupled with +p ammo every day if I think I want to carry a bigger firearm (I prefer pocket carry personally). The firearms you have listed should have 9mm counterparts (SR9, Glock 17, etc.). For me I would consider the Glock 19 with 15+1 capacity (or a G23 and get a 9mm barrel so you have choices) or something from Springield Armory's XD/XDM lineup as there are plenty of reliable choices in their catalog that are very comfortable in the hand and won't break the bank. Plus 9mm ammo is cheaper IF you stock up when there isn't panic buying going on. __________________ Stay Groovy Last edited by Joe_Pike; June 21, 2015 at 11:12 AM.

June 21, 2015, 11:22 AM	#10
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	DAFL First Gun? What is your shooting experience? The pistols you list are fine pistols if you can hit the broad side of a barn. What size are your hands? What worries me here is "as I'm getting my armed security guard license", the reason that concerns me is years ago at an indoor range I found my self shooting next to 3 security guards. They collectively could not find the target at 7 yards. I'm not saying that you are one of these it just brings back memories of the safest target I can remember. I think the only ones in trouble would be the patrons at the mall they were protecting. You said that your a big guy so I'm guessing you have large hands. I would point to the G22 if that is the case. But have you picked one up and does it feel good in your hands? I don't care for Glocks personally but they are a fine firearm. I have owned Glocks but not now. If that is your choice I would recommend that you buy it and the conversion kit for 22 as well. It will increase your practice, decrease your practice costs and allow you to focus on the fundamentals of good shooting. No matter your choice I would recommend the 22 conversion if available and if not then a 22 that most closely mirrors your choice. __________________ Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want.

June 21, 2015, 11:26 AM	#11
Mastrogiacomo Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,297	I'm not really fond of any of the guns on the list. I'd suggest a Glock 19 or hold out for the Sig 225 that's about to be re-released. Laura __________________ "Luctor et Emergo" - Struggle and Emerge

June 21, 2015, 10:26 AM	#2
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	I bought an SD9ve for $330 and like the way it works. The only thing I don't like is the trigger. After adding an apex trigger kit it got way better. I didn't want to spend a lot of money so that's why I got it but it causes me to wonder if I should have got the M&P9 for the better options right from the start.

June 21, 2015, 10:40 AM	#3
Amegatek Member Join Date: October 5, 2002 Location: Orient, OH. Posts: 76	My first carry gun was a Glock 19 (9mm). 11 years later, still in my carry rotation. My other carry gun is a Ruger SR1911LW CMD (.45 ACP). Both are great. Try a few out, maybe add some to your list just for comparison sake. Then make your decision. Hopefully, one will stick out for you.

June 21, 2015, 11:08 AM	#5
steelbird Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2010 Posts: 180	I don't want to assume anything from a first post, but what kind if experience do you have with firearms? You've mentioned that you're a big guy, but the body build may not have much of a bearing on what your wrists and forearms can handle. I've seen big fellas have trouble with a 9mm, and petite ladies shooting monster guns I wouldn't touch. That range may be far away, and difficult to find time to get to, but it's worth taking that extra time and effort to know what works for you before you go spending money and time on a caliber/platform that may not be suitable for you. If you do have some experience with, however, and you're comfortable with a .40, then go for it. I myself, am not too fond of it for the usual reason that others mention - it's just too snappy for me.

June 21, 2015, 11:08 AM	#6
BigBL87 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2014 Location: Tonica, IL Posts: 473	Given everything you said, I think an SD40VE would be a good choice. Relatively inexpensive yet the SD line has shown to be very reliable. Now, me personally I prefer hammer fired so it wouldn't be my first choice. I prefer to have a manual safety as well. I started (and stayed) with 9mm with cost as a big reason, but also because with modern self defense bullets you really aren't trading away much in stopping power at all by going with a 9mm vs 40. I like cheaper ammo because it means I can afford to practice more.

June 21, 2015, 11:09 AM	#7
rt11002003 Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2014 Posts: 524	My favorite carry gun is a Kimber SOLO 9mm. It's almost tiny, very accurate and comfortable to shoot. My second favorite is probably the SIG p239 9mm SAS Gen 2; it's a fabulous gun, slightly larger than the SOLO, more accurate and more comfortable to shoot. I don't care for the .40 round , too snappy. They don't seem to be as stable a shooter as the .45. If I were going to carry a full size gun, it would likely be the SIG 1911 .45 MAXX. You should get at least as many different recommendations as the number of folks who respond.

June 21, 2015, 11:12 AM	#8
DAFL Junior Member Join Date: June 18, 2015 Posts: 6	thanks for the quick response guys! I went to the local gun shop they only had the M&P and the sr40, but out of those two I definitely liked the sr40 more, sure the M&P was more comfortable, but I felt more in control of the SR40, unfortunately they dont have a range so i couldnt shoot any, and i guess thats what it all comes down to. So I'm about to head to the range 45 minutes away to shoot some! wish me luck!

June 21, 2015, 11:17 AM	#9
steelbird Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2010 Posts: 180	Forgot to ask - where are you located in FL? and FL is not COMPLETELY concealed only - there are some circumstances where you can open carry - these relate to outdoor hunting/fishing/camping activities.

June 21, 2015, 12:19 PM	#12
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Are you really wanting a full size pistol for carry? If you have the frame for it, and choose a good holster, concealing a full size can be done without much trouble. Though the slightly smaller compact models are easier to carry while still keeping a decent size for a full grip.. Which brings me to... G19... Good compromise of size/weight and magazine capacity. The grip is a little cramped compared to the g17, but not too bad, and some easy mods improve it a lot. I prefer the gen 4 glock, I think they feel better in the hand, I hated the gen 3 feel, but the gen 4 was good enough for me to buy one. If you want a larger size... The m&p is a great pistol, though I disliked the stock trigger... An Apex trigger kit makes them sweet, the best striker trigger I have felt. I really love mine now that I have an Apex in it, it is my favorite striker pistol I own, and now own the compact version (closer to sub compact in size) as well. They are just so comfortable in my hands, and the recoil characteristics are very nice. The g17 is a good pistol, if you like the feel of the glock. I have shot an FNX, and liked it, but that is all I can say about it. The Ruger SR line is supposed to be good from what I hear; I have no real experience with it. You mentioned the Walther PPQ... Why is it not on the list? I think it is a very comfortable/ergonomic pistol with the best out of the box striker trigger. I want to pick one up myself soon. Another option you did not mention is the H&K VP9... I love mine almost as much as my m&p... If it wasn't for the Apex trigger in my m&p, the vp9 would be my favorite. Very comfortable/ergonomic pistol, with a very good trigger. And I LOVE the paddle mag release. (the PPQ can be had with one as well... Overall the PPQ and VP9 feel similar in the hand, the vp9 is more customizable to different hand sizes with its back strap and side plate options, but the PPQ trigger is better) Did you notice I suggested all 9mm? Go with 9mm... Practice ammo is cheaper, more capacity in the same frame, and lower recoil. There is so little as to be no difference between the effectiveness of 9mm, 40, and 45... You want hollow point ammo of a newer design... Federal HST, original Speer gold dots, Winchester PDX1 (or their defend line), or one of the Hornaday critical line. You want 124gr or heavier in 9mm... I prefer 124gr. Don't get 9mm +p rounds, standard pressure actually works better... More penetration... Proper penetration is important, it is second only to good aim. All the ones I mentioned perform well in tests and penetrate to around 15" in gel tests. (12-18" is the standard, around 15" is considered ideal) 40 is a good round... While it does have some advantages over 9mm in certain areas, those advantages do not counter it's disadvantages, for most shooters anyway. Barrier performance is not as important to most shooters as it would be to a police officer, for example. I used to be a 40 advocate, but recent hollow point ammo designs have changed that. So I feel most shooters will be served better by 9mm. Due to the nature of guns, and terminal performance being more taboo subjects among the general population... Study of wound effects is less prevalent... So people try to fill in the gaps of knowledge with other things.. Things like "power" and "energy" when these things have little to do with the effectiveness of pistol rounds. (rifle rounds are a different thing) There is more good info and actual studies available now, but the gun world can be stubborn and resistant to change... So there are those who don't accept the fact that 9mm has improved to the point that it is as good as 40. If you still want 40, then by all means, get a pistol chambered in it. All the pistols I mentioned have a 40 option. (the VP9 does not have a VP40 counterpart yet thoigh) and all the things I said about the 9mm versions apply to the 40 versions as well.

June 21, 2015, 12:56 PM	#13
Cosmodragoon Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 1,869	I've shot, owned, and carried guns in 9mm, .40, and .45. I like 9mm and .45 depending on the situation. I really tried to like .40 but there was just something about the recoil that made it less pleasant than either 9mm or .45, despite .45 being generally more powerful. I had done some digging, here and elsewhere, for the perfect platform for .40 so that I could learn to love it. I was getting ready to invest in a CX4/PX4 combo for .40 when Ruger jammed me up with a bunch of new guns in what's become my favorite revolver caliber: .327 Federal. I just didn't have room to adopt .40 anymore! That said, I'm an SA/DA guy when I'm not carrying a revolver. I love the FNX-45! I'm a big guy and it feels great in hand. It shoots very well and for years, I think it was the highest capacity .45 handgun. I also liked the controls, which were good for decocked SA/DA guys like me or your cocked-and-locked guys. It is definitely a cold-weather CCW up here given the size but I think it would be perfect for uniform carry if you go the security route.

June 21, 2015, 12:58 PM	#14
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	The local gun stores near me have shelves of used 40SW pistols. It's gotten to the point where the local guy I use for consignments stopped taking in 40SW pistols. He can't move them and when he does it's been so long that neither the owner nor he are happy with the result. Most of the original owners bought it for the same reasons you mention. Still good capacity, but more "knockdown" power than a 9mm. The problem is the recoil from 40SW can be both unpleasant for new shooters and induce bad habits, such as flinching. In the end they end up with a gun that they don't enjoy shooting and can't shoot particularly well. A lot of times they either sell the pistol or just don't shoot it much. Now of course there are exceptions, and experienced shooters may have no issue at all with the 40SW. But the reality is it performs nearly identically to 9mm. It may have some edge in barrier penetration, but if that is a concern get 147 gr 9mm defensive ammo and you'll be set. There's a reason it's so available in the shops. Because a lot of the general public has stopped shooting 40SW. Even a number of LE agencies are switching over. If you want a 40SW at some point I have no problem with it and it's your money. But it would not be my recommended caliber for a first gun. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

June 21, 2015, 02:04 PM	#16
DAFL Junior Member Join Date: June 18, 2015 Posts: 6	I just got back from the range, and let me just insert my foot into my mouth over what i said of the 9mm, unfortunately they didnt have any .40s I could try, but I did get to try the .45 M&P and I wasn't that bad with it. Definitely not as good as I was with the 9 in which I tried the Glock, which I wasn't really a fan of, just didn't feel like I had a good hold on the gun. I definitely liked the M&P most, out of those two, I even felt more comfortable with the M&P .45 than I did with the 9mm Glock, but they didn't have much of a selection. I really want to get my hands on an SR and now that I've shot I can say that I would definitely like to start on 9mm (go ahead and say I told you so) Not that I couldnt handle the .45 or the .40 that i havent shot yet, i was just really consistent and accurate with the 9. I might consider the sig 2022 (any comments on this gun?)

June 21, 2015, 02:12 PM	#17
BigBL87 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2014 Location: Tonica, IL Posts: 473	No experience with the Sig, but I will say like you I never could like Glock. I think it's the grip angle that is uncomfortable. I personally love my B6P, only cost me $250. Now, if you have the money I'd buy something nicer/more expensive, but it's a heck of a gun for the money. In that same vein, since you like the SA/DA I'd really think about a CZ75 or one of its variants (the B6P is a Turkish clone of the CZ75).

June 21, 2015, 02:19 PM	#18
DAFL Junior Member Join Date: June 18, 2015 Posts: 6	I'll look into the cz75 thanks!

June 21, 2015, 02:23 PM	#19
davem Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2004 Posts: 458	Are you set on a semi-auto? Have you thought about a revolver?

June 21, 2015, 02:25 PM	#20
DAFL Junior Member Join Date: June 18, 2015 Posts: 6	I've dabbled in the thought of a revolver, but I'm really looking for 14+ rounds

June 21, 2015, 02:27 PM	#21
11mm Member Join Date: September 5, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 36	I've shot the Sig 2022 and I owned an SR9c and it they're both great platforms for 9mm. Right now I have an M&P in 45 and it's quickly growing to be a favorite of mine. My only experience with Glocks is the 20 in 10mm but it's been in every way acceptable, I find I Like the M&P better but I'd be hard pressed to complain about a Glock. __________________ Ruger MKIII 22/45\Uzi Eagle 40\ Smith & Wesson M&P45\ Remington R1 1911\ Ruger SR1911\ Ruger SP101\ Ruger Super Blackhawk\ Smith & Wesson Model 69

June 21, 2015, 02:29 PM	#22
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	You need to go to a shop and try a bunch of handguns on for size, then decide how much money you want to spend(including the belt and holster.) first. Find Glocks are kind of slippery myself. Not a big deal since you can buy a rubber sleeve to fix that. Oh and 45 minutes is nothing. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 21, 2015, 02:36 PM	#23
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 899	You've got a learning curve. You're comfortable with that...good. So I like that you're gravitating to 9mm. Mostly because it's more affordable to shoot a lot. Sounds like you're excluding Glock for the reason you mentioned...that's fine. ALL OF THE REMAINING MAKES ON YOUR LIST ARE EXCELLENT AND RELIABLE OUT OF THE BOX, so rest your mind on that issue. So, what's left? You mentioned (too many) safeties. If that means you don't like manual thumb safeties, then I'm pretty sure that excludes the SR. Now, from what's left, I think you need to really decide between striker fired vs. DA/SA with a decocker. Only you can decide that and it doesn't sound like you have any hands-on with the DA/SA so that makes it hard. I think you really need to make an effort to borrow or rent one of those in order to really make an informed decision. The FNX and the SP2022 that you've mentioned are fine guns if you decide you like the DA/SA. But if you decide in favor of a striker fired gun, then the only one that remains on your personal list is the M&P. I own and would trust my life to an M&P. Done, right? Well maybe not, but I will finish with this about other striker fired guns... I also own and would trust my life to a VP9 and an FNS9. And, while I don't own them, I would also trust my life to a P320 or a PPQ. Good luck and enjoy this process. It's fun.

June 21, 2015, 03:01 PM	#24
DAFL Junior Member Join Date: June 18, 2015 Posts: 6	jmhyer what a great response! I wish they had a hammer fire I could try but I didn't get the opportunity to. I guess I'll have to go back to the shop and see if I can't dry fire some of them. So it's basically coming down to the M&P vs cz75 (which might be out of my price range, unless i can find a good deal) 2022, or FNX. Can't really make a decision without holding them, but out of those previous three, any one of them stick out for good or bad reasons? the CZ75 has been tried and true, but maybe newer is better? What's y'alls opinions?

June 21, 2015, 03:29 PM	#25
Slimjim9 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2015 Posts: 783	I like jmhyer's analysis and think you should go with the M&P 9. Striker is less of a learning curve. When I was deciding between striker and DA/SA I shot a Glock 19 and SP2022 back to back. The consistent trigger pull of the G19 won me over. It felt fine and shot well. Done. I was not comfortable at all with the SP. DA was crazy heavy and the SA was so light it scared me quite frankly. Could I have gotten over "the learning curve"? Probably, but I figured it was better to go with what felt more "natural" to me.