Catsneeze...

mehavey · May 5, 2014, 07:44 AM

Just a note for "The Internet Search Engines":

I wanted a transitionary round to wean my granddaughter off the standard 22 I got her last year
(a really nifty Savage Mark II), and onto a weapon/cartridge that wasn't "scary" first time out
-- but could also be gradually loaded up to full bore usefullness.

I happened to have a 20" `92Win in 357Mag that's "cooly attractive/non-scary" (important to girly girls),
so that was the platform.

How low could I go?

Playing w/ QuickLoad/Barrel Friction most definitely "ON" and some very plain 158gr MagTech bullets
I had lying around, I settled on a ½cc Lee dipper of Trailboss (2.1gr) for a predicted velocity of 604fps.

38 Special Case/158gr LRN (seated/crimped normally)
2.1gr Trailboss (½cc)
Actual velocity: 599fps
Cloverleafed at 25 yds
Incredibly quiet (to the point that people came over to look)
No recoil.

Now we can gradually work up to full bore 357Mag -- and then switch to the AR with all its crash/bang
noise/flash and scary-looking moving parts.

...after that, the 375H&H

.

Clark · May 5, 2014, 11:36 AM

I have been interested in non suppressor quiet shooting for 20 years.
I started with Remington CB Long 22 rimfire ammo in rifles with barrel lengths at least 24".
I shot a raccoon in the brain yesterday with a CCI CB short fired from a 22 rifle with a 24" barrel.

It may seem like I did not get far, but there were a lot of experiments in between.
There was a "cat's sneeze" FAQ at rec.guns in the days before WWW gun forums, but that domain name got sold this year.
The information on that old FAQ was inspiring, but did not really work.

I now know what will work for a 357 mag rifle that keeps the gas behind that bullet below one atmosphere of pressure above ambient at the time of bullet escapement.
It will be ~ 0.5 gr of fast pistol powder.
If the Lead bullet is seated at the case mouth, the gun will sound like a BB gun, but the bullet will bounce off wood.
If the Lead bullet is seated down into the case to compress the powder, the gun will still sound like a BB gun, but the bullet will go through an inch of wood.

However, a bullet striking and going through an inch of wood does NOT sound like a BB gun. So quiet shooting "Cat's Sneeze" also requires quiet targets.

Clark · May 5, 2014, 03:49 PM

I CAN find stuff archived from 1997, but I can't find the old cat's sneeze stuff

http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/lowpower.html

griz · May 6, 2014, 10:49 AM

I've let friends shoot my rifle when loaded with very light lead bullet loads such as that. They are so quiet and mild that some of them thought the gun wasn't loaded.

May 5, 2014, 07:44 AM	#1
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Catsneeze... Just a note for "The Internet Search Engines": I wanted a transitionary round to wean my granddaughter off the standard 22 I got her last year (a really nifty Savage Mark II), and onto a weapon/cartridge that wasn't "scary" first time out -- but could also be gradually loaded up to full bore usefullness. I happened to have a 20" `92Win in 357Mag that's "cooly attractive/non-scary" (important to girly girls), so that was the platform. How low could I go? Playing w/ QuickLoad/Barrel Friction most definitely "ON" and some very plain 158gr MagTech bullets I had lying around, I settled on a ½cc Lee dipper of Trailboss (2.1gr) for a predicted velocity of 604fps. 38 Special Case/158gr LRN (seated/crimped normally) 2.1gr Trailboss (½cc) Actual velocity: 599fps Cloverleafed at 25 yds Incredibly quiet (to the point that people came over to look) No recoil. Now we can gradually work up to full bore 357Mag -- and then switch to the AR with all its crash/bang noise/flash and scary-looking moving parts. ...after that, the 375H&H . Last edited by mehavey; May 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM.

May 5, 2014, 11:36 AM	#2
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have been interested in non suppressor quiet shooting for 20 years. I started with Remington CB Long 22 rimfire ammo in rifles with barrel lengths at least 24". I shot a raccoon in the brain yesterday with a CCI CB short fired from a 22 rifle with a 24" barrel. It may seem like I did not get far, but there were a lot of experiments in between. There was a "cat's sneeze" FAQ at rec.guns in the days before WWW gun forums, but that domain name got sold this year. The information on that old FAQ was inspiring, but did not really work. I now know what will work for a 357 mag rifle that keeps the gas behind that bullet below one atmosphere of pressure above ambient at the time of bullet escapement. It will be ~ 0.5 gr of fast pistol powder. If the Lead bullet is seated at the case mouth, the gun will sound like a BB gun, but the bullet will bounce off wood. If the Lead bullet is seated down into the case to compress the powder, the gun will still sound like a BB gun, but the bullet will go through an inch of wood. However, a bullet striking and going through an inch of wood does NOT sound like a BB gun. So quiet shooting "Cat's Sneeze" also requires quiet targets. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

May 5, 2014, 03:49 PM	#3
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I CAN find stuff archived from 1997, but I can't find the old cat's sneeze stuff http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/lowpower.html __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

May 6, 2014, 10:49 AM	#4
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	I've let friends shoot my rifle when loaded with very light lead bullet loads such as that. They are so quiet and mild that some of them thought the gun wasn't loaded.