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Old February 23, 2019, 07:14 AM   #1
stagpanther
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Front action screw goes bye bye

My savage 111 300win mag has sat forlorn in my safe for years, I only get er out for a few shots every now and then to keep the barrel good. So I go out to my local pit, and it was a once-in-a -blue moon opportunity; all the construction gear had been temporarily removed so I could shoot all the way out to 380 yds--very rare. I wasn't really prepared for this, but I had a couple of boxes of Nosler 180 AB trophy grade factory stuff with the info on it and was able to use the figures to plug into ballistics AB ap on my iPhone. I took 4 shots at the target and all I could see was puffs of dirt from the impacts--but upon retrieval of the target I was pleasantly surprised to find a nice grouping right around MOA in the center region of the target.

I switched to my hand-loads for some testing and decide to rezero my monarch scope to 200 yds. First 4 shots were only about 2 MOA, and I'm wondering if something is wrong with the loads. I move on to the next batch and it gets worse--now I have a spread of around 7 inches. No point in wasting any more ammo and I pack up to leave. My rig has a Tupperware stock, so it has a certain degree of flex to it no matter what, but upon picking it up by the forend it seemed the flex was a bit more than usual. Turning the rifle over I immediately noticed the front action bolt had worked loose and fallen out.

I had forgotten to do a check of the action bolts--which I should have especially considering the power of the cartridge and the flex of the stock.
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Old February 23, 2019, 03:24 PM   #2
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You have reminded us to check bolt tightness, and do a general look over before each range session.
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Old February 23, 2019, 03:37 PM   #3
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I have had that happen, things go fine (or time goes by) and I forget. annoying

You should change the tile. Its the front action screw not the front bolt.

I was dreading to see the bolt had failed at the front lugs or some such.

I don't want to be mistaken for Mr. G, but screws, bolts are different things by common usage.

Technically its a threaded fastener, bolts would be cap screws.

Generally we think of screws as having a slot, hex drive (etc) and tending to under 1/4 inch but not a hex cap head.

Yes there are some cap screws that are really large torx head or smaller 12 point drive heads.
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Old February 23, 2019, 03:40 PM   #4
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Very good point RC20--my apologies if I misled anyone--I'll see if I can change it.
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Old February 23, 2019, 03:54 PM   #5
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With Savage being able to "tune" the action, i do the following for a new to me rifle.
Both screws to 35 lbin.
Ladder test for powder charge.
Seating depth test.
Tune action.
When at home, i remove screws, use a drop of purple (the blue works also) Loctite.
Reassemble to torque provided by action tuning.

Happily shoot away.
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Old February 23, 2019, 06:17 PM   #6
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sounds like a sound approach--though I usually do the stand up on buttpad vertically thing in order to seat the recoil lug while tightening the screws.

PS: I've owned this rifle for a while--think I bought it around 2008.
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Old February 23, 2019, 06:56 PM   #7
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Yes. After applying Loctite, start screws, do the gentle rap with butt stock to floor, torque screws.
Or just do it standing up if you really want.
I'm gett'n too old for all that bending/stooping if i don't need to.

Where's the old man with a cane emojee???
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Old February 23, 2019, 08:52 PM   #8
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My brother (and wife ) are something of neat nicks.

I was stunned the other day when my brother said when things hit the floor he just leaves them there, it hurts to much to pick them up.

I try to let things build up before I do.

What is funny is with a ruptured disk, you are supposed to kneel down and not bend over.

Hmm, now I can't get up very good, where the *&^% does that leave me?

Maybe the old guy in the wheel chair emoji is needed as well.
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Old February 23, 2019, 10:54 PM   #9
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I was getting frustrated working up loads in 243. If I took the rifle from the bench and laid it in the shade in the pickup box, it seemed to mess with the point of impact. If the rifle cooled between rounds in the shooting rest on the bench it was more consistent. When cleaning the bore, I discovered the scope rings had loosened. Huh. Made me shake my head.

Picking stuff off the ground is one of the things really annoying about being an old guy. Gutting a deer nearly disables me. Now I use a game hoist in the reciever hitch on the truck. Makes deer hunting way more fun. Loading a critter in the box is an easy task too.
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Old February 24, 2019, 01:12 AM   #10
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I'm 60--am I that much junior to you guys?
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Old February 24, 2019, 12:38 PM   #11
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Yesterday I tested the entire ladder of my handloads using 168 berger vlds and ramshot magnum--stuck to the recipes straight out of Berger's handloading manual and the results were so bad I figured something had to be wrong with the rifle. I was about to take the entire rifle apart and clean, degrease and reseat everything when I thought just as a reality check I might test some 180 accubonds I had loaded up driven by RL22.

I just got back from shooting a quick 4 shots of the lowest charge ladder off the tailgate of my truck--it doesn't show up in the shots but it's actually in the middle of a snow squall and winds are gusting 25 to 35 mph, so I wasn't expecting much in accuracy--just wanted to see if things were flying as wide as they were yesterday. I knew I pulled the flyer when I shot it, but that seems to be standard procedure for me. Otherwise, it seems like maybe there might not be a problem with the rifle after all.

Now there's some controversy over the whole gyroscopic stability vs. range thing, and that might be why my results with the bergers were so bad yesterday--or maybe it was a bad lot of powder, though the velocities were within the norms of what was predicted. I'm thinking (twist is 1:10 so that shouldn't be a factor) more likely the bergers are more sensitive to the precise amount of jump to lands?





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Old February 24, 2019, 02:05 PM   #12
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Stag: Maybe you should change that to I unscrew things so you do't have to?

What range are those shots?

Its not bad for 100 yards with all the conditions (wind, snow and not a great rest)

Bergers can be picky and a larger jump has worked. Moving (.040?) out at a time.

Still I see 3 pretty darned good ones. If those were mine and it had a consisitant flyer I would do powder charge 4/10 below and above and run tests with shortening up the cartridge. Usually I will load 15 low, same and 15 higher.

In your case I would start with the 20 group and adjust COAL. I carry a press to the range with me to do that. Otherwise you have to pre do it and you can't adjust on the fly.
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Old February 24, 2019, 03:49 PM   #13
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Thanks RC20--I wasn't really shooting for accuracy--just making sure I wasn't getting 5" groups like I was with the Bergers yesterday. That one one flyer is pure on me--I called it (aka cursed it) as the shot broke since it was obvious in the scope. I still have the rest of the ladder charges to go--but we are now in the teeth of a full-on storm and it looks like we're going to thrashed by stormy weather and very high winds through the week. Oh--this was at 102 yds.

It's pretty rough going just getting into here--and it's an active quarrying operation--so I have to be aware when equipment is being used and bug out as necessary. But I would love to get a hand press to be able to adjust on the fly--I probably would if the spot I shot at I knew I had dedicated access to. Those are my excuses and I'm sticking to them.
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Old February 24, 2019, 09:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
I'm 60--am I that much junior to you guys?
I'm more than a decade older. We all age differntly. Some 80 year olds ski and climb mountains.
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Old February 24, 2019, 10:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Some 80 year olds ski and climb mountains.
I'll order what he's having.
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Old February 24, 2019, 10:19 PM   #16
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I just ordered and starting reading Applied Ballistics' books by Brian Litz--it's like trying to read the owner's manual to Battlestar Gallactica. LOL I might try yoga meditation to get my Berger handholds to shoot better. Just kidding (mostly) Finding out why things go wrong sometimes interests me more than why they work right.

To set the record straight, I guess to be technically accurate I'm shooting for precision here--not accuracy. (always get them two buggers mixed up).
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Old February 25, 2019, 08:06 AM   #17
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By pure coincidence I started reading Bryan Litz's books; admittedly my brain is having trouble grasping the underpinnings of what he's saying in many cases but I decided to see if there are any hints to help me understand what I just experienced with my 300 win mag loads. Although it's not really apples to apples to compare the 168 vld to the 175 AB, I thought it might shed a bit of a light anyway.

Most of the savage bolt action rifles I have bought generally are "generous" with their freebore length; I've never had one that I couldn't make a cartridge for that went well beyond SAAMI OAL spec, and if you want to consider hand-feeding even beyond the magazine-permitted OAL. That appears to be the case here.

On the left is the Berger and on the right is the accubond. Notice the base of ogive is further forward on the accubond--this in no way suggests that it is inherently more stable bullet design IMO; but if loading the cartridge to magazine limitations it does mean I can get the base of ogive closer to engaging the lands. Bryan also suggests in one of his books that the squaring off of the base of the boattail to some degree helps with yaw stability (assuming adequate twist spin) across a wider range of velocities, which I assume becomes more relevant at longer ranges as the bullet's velocity approaches the transonic boundary. While the squaring of the AB base isn't perfect, it's fairly easy to see it uses much less chamfering than the Berger bullet.

Unfortunately, I can't get out to longer ranges for the moment to see better how much these factors affect the bullet's performance.



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Old February 25, 2019, 12:48 PM   #18
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I'm more than a decade older. We all age differntly. Some 80 year olds ski and climb mountains.
Years back I was going along for SEG (*&^@'s and giggles) with my brother getting into shape for sheep hunting (I was up to a challenge and it made for better company for him)

We are a quarter of a mile on a steep trail taking a break up above the parking lot and see this guy who had to be 60 pull up, get out, oh well, we will see him when we head back.

20 minutes latter he passes us like we are standing still. Now don't we feel stupid.

I hate people like that. We both had worked all our lives at heavier labor, no wimps and he still left us in the dust. Break a leg and we meant it!
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Old February 25, 2019, 12:51 PM   #19
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Target shooting is a tough gig, all that little stuff once you get under 5/8 or so.

Anyone that does it with a 300 mag has my admiration. Me, I am an 06 at max wimp (and I prefer the lower loads and a bull barrel in a target stock!)
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Old February 25, 2019, 03:41 PM   #20
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...and I just bought a savage in 338 Lapua.
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