Anyone know how/if the Sig P365 is drop safe?

OhioGuy · December 12, 2018, 07:05 AM

I haven't been able to get an answer to this so far. I'm hoping there is one. I know that dropped guns are not a common occurrence but they do happen. The P365, from what I can tell, has a fairly light single action trigger -- and the striker is fully pretensioned??? -- around 5.5 lb or so. No trigger dingus or other external safety mechanisms that I can see.

So, if this pistol is dropped similarly to the pre-recalled P320, what is to keep the trigger from "pulling itself" under the inertia of the drop?

I'm very interested in the P365, but this seems like something I want to understand better. I've asked in a P365 forum but the only responses have been along the lines of "don't drop your gun and you'll be fine"

Yankee Doodle · December 12, 2018, 07:54 AM

Great question. Anyone who would buy a firearm that is NOT drop safe is, to quote my Grandpa, "A Feckin Eejit". Just my opinion.

Bartholomew Roberts · December 12, 2018, 08:29 AM

I think that’s a reasonable concern given that the P365 trigger has a fatter profile that looks very similar to the SIG P320 pre-voluntary upgrade trigger.

On the P320, one of the fixes was to reduce the mass of the trigger to help prevent inertia from pulling the trigger. So, I’d be interested in why the P365 has that chunky trigger in it. Although with all the Youtube channels these days, you’d think there would be a hundred guys whacking P365s with mallets trying to get that next viral hit.

TunnelRat · December 12, 2018, 08:43 AM

To my knowledge the trigger mechanism is the same as the P320. It likely uses the same drop safe mechanism, which is a combination of the fact that the trigger bar moves forward when the trigger is pulled and the mass of the trigger bar outweighs that of the trigger shoe. Given that the P320 can be drop safe, I think the P365 can be as well. As for has anyone tested it, my guess is someone has. However, a test with a negative result gathers nowhere near the same YouTube views as one with a positive result, in this case.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

FITASC · December 12, 2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Due to recent drop-safe issues with the SIG Sauer P320 the P365 was drop tested over 500 times using an enhanced testing protocol which dropped the pistol at different angles from varying heights to ensure that no such problem would occur.[1] For US states that require it, an external safety will be offered in the future

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_P365

Winny · December 12, 2018, 12:13 PM

I would imagine after the P320 issues, Sig would be running a very tight ship on drop safety issues.

Bartholomew Roberts · December 12, 2018, 01:26 PM

While I don’t doubt SIG vetted the pistol thoroughly (and I’m sure SIG competitors did too!), the link in the Wikipedia article is to a Soldier Systems page of straight-up unedited SIG press releases (and that factoid isn’t on that page either).

I’d be skeptical of any press release; but given the fine but misleading distinctions SIG has been known to make in the past regarding accidental discharges, I’d be extremely skeptical of this one.

I’d put more faith in the absence of videos showing a problem than the press release. I’m sure there are a dozen or more Youtubers going at the P365 like a dwarven blacksmith at his forge.

davidsog · December 12, 2018, 03:02 PM

It is not drop safe!!!

Sell yours now and cheap so it goes fast.

FITASC · December 12, 2018, 04:00 PM

If you're going to do that, let me know; I'll buy them all for $250/each to get those unsafe guns off the market........

ManyMag · December 12, 2018, 04:57 PM

There's just something wrong with the notion any gun is safe to drop.

TunnelRat · December 12, 2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManyMag

There's just something wrong with the notion any gun is safe to drop.

Not really, no. Firing pin blocks, inertial requirements, all of these exist. The point in asking about or looking for drop safety information isn't to advocate dropping firearms.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

USNRet93 · December 13, 2018, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManyMag

There's just something wrong with the notion any gun is safe to drop.

Guns DO get dropped...some 'do' go off when they are dropped. Ones that are 'known' to not be drop safe are just that, not 'safe' to drop..choose wisely.

Bartholomew Roberts · December 13, 2018, 10:34 AM

I don’t care if you do it through practically perfect pistol handling or holsters and redundant mechanical safeties designed to mitigate human imperfection; but don’t be that reason why we can’t have nice things.

USNRet93 · December 13, 2018, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

I don’t care if you do it through practically perfect pistol handling or holsters and redundant mechanical safeties designed to mitigate human imperfection; but don’t be that reason why we can’t have nice things.

Assault and weapons charges? Was she carrying illegally? Don't get the assault part of it..was she arguing with the lady shot?

Ahh, found

Quote:

According to the jail website she is charged with possession of a stolen firearm, carrying a concealed weapon and simple assault.

There are signs outside the building forbidding firearms on the premises.

BUT still don't get the 'assault' part.

FITASC · December 13, 2018, 01:17 PM

Someone was injured as a result of her action; that can constitute "assault"

ManyMag · December 14, 2018, 06:46 PM

The good news is California and some other states require all handguns to be drop safe.

chris in va · December 25, 2018, 09:58 PM

Ok, first of all, that 'chunky' trigger is hollow, not solid. Secondly it has a firing pin block to prevent the striker from releasing.

I don't think the striker is fully cocked anyway, the trigger pull is fairly stiff.

TunnelRat · December 25, 2018, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris in va

Ok, first of all, that 'chunky' trigger is hollow, not solid. Secondly it has a firing pin block to prevent the striker from releasing.

I don't think the striker is fully cocked anyway, the trigger pull is fairly stiff.

The firing pin block didn't help the P320. That's what motivated this question.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

TxFlyFish · December 25, 2018, 10:41 PM

The bigger question ... but did she drop her gun while doing a back flip? If so, no charges

OhioGuy · December 26, 2018, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris in va

Ok, first of all, that 'chunky' trigger is hollow, not solid. Secondly it has a firing pin block to prevent the striker from releasing.

I don't think the striker is fully cocked anyway, the trigger pull is fairly stiff.

The firing pin block prevents the striker from releasing if the trigger is not pulled. That's the point of my question about being "drop safe." The P320 fired because it was dropped in such a way that the trigger was pulled down by inertia, and the firing pin block became irrelevant because the trigger was pulled.

gnystrom · December 26, 2018, 04:21 PM

You obviously know that nothing is drop safe. If that is truly a concern, stay away from guns and pepper spray and resort to carrying hockey pucks.

TunnelRat · December 26, 2018, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnystrom

You obviously know that nothing is drop safe. If that is truly a concern, stay away from guns and pepper spray and resort to carrying hockey pucks.

Ah this old argument. The laziest strawman out there. Because nothing is 100% safe then it doesn't matter if a product by a company shows itself to be significantly less tolerant of drops than the competition. There's a difference between being a fan and being a fanboy. Only by expecting more of companies do we get improved products. And guess what, SIG was able to remedy the issue. It didn't bankrupt them.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

USNRet93 · December 27, 2018, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

Ah this old argument. The laziest strawman out there. Because nothing is 100% safe then it doesn't matter if a product by a company shows itself to be significantly less tolerant of drops than the competition. There's a difference between being a fan and being a fanboy. Only by expecting more of companies do we get improved products. And guess what, SIG was able to remedy the issue. It didn't bankrupt them.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I agree that Sig stepped up to fix these issues(along with the P320) but since the question, 'is the handgun drop safe?' comes up often, wondering why Sig didn't test/see/fix before introduction?

OhioGuy · December 27, 2018, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnystrom

You obviously know that nothing is drop safe. If that is truly a concern, stay away from guns and pepper spray and resort to carrying hockey pucks.

I also know that no automobile is 100% safe in a collision. By your logic, I should therefore be willing to drive any automobile regardless of its safety features and consider them to be all equally safe -- or else stick to walking?

gc70 · December 27, 2018, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNRet93

I agree that Sig stepped up to fix these issues(along with the P320) but since the question, 'is the handgun drop safe?' comes up often, wondering why Sig didn't test/see/fix before introduction?

Sig did test the P320 before its introduction. And Sig probably tested the changes made to the P320 trigger after its introduction. What Sig did not do was test the P320 in exactly the way necessary to find the flaw in the P320; the "industry standard" testing protocols simply failed to detect the problem. Sig subsequently expanded testing procedures very significantly.

December 12, 2018, 07:05 AM	#1
OhioGuy Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2016 Posts: 1,089	Anyone know how/if the Sig P365 is drop safe? I haven't been able to get an answer to this so far. I'm hoping there is one. I know that dropped guns are not a common occurrence but they do happen. The P365, from what I can tell, has a fairly light single action trigger -- and the striker is fully pretensioned??? -- around 5.5 lb or so. No trigger dingus or other external safety mechanisms that I can see. So, if this pistol is dropped similarly to the pre-recalled P320, what is to keep the trigger from "pulling itself" under the inertia of the drop? I'm very interested in the P365, but this seems like something I want to understand better. I've asked in a P365 forum but the only responses have been along the lines of "don't drop your gun and you'll be fine"

December 12, 2018, 04:00 PM	#9
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	If you're going to do that, let me know; I'll buy them all for $250/each to get those unsafe guns off the market........ __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

December 13, 2018, 01:17 PM	#15
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Someone was injured as a result of her action; that can constitute "assault" __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

December 12, 2018, 07:54 AM	#2
Yankee Doodle Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 619	Great question. Anyone who would buy a firearm that is NOT drop safe is, to quote my Grandpa, "A Feckin Eejit". Just my opinion.

December 12, 2018, 08:29 AM	#3
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I think that’s a reasonable concern given that the P365 trigger has a fatter profile that looks very similar to the SIG P320 pre-voluntary upgrade trigger. On the P320, one of the fixes was to reduce the mass of the trigger to help prevent inertia from pulling the trigger. So, I’d be interested in why the P365 has that chunky trigger in it. Although with all the Youtube channels these days, you’d think there would be a hundred guys whacking P365s with mallets trying to get that next viral hit.

December 12, 2018, 08:43 AM	#4
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	To my knowledge the trigger mechanism is the same as the P320. It likely uses the same drop safe mechanism, which is a combination of the fact that the trigger bar moves forward when the trigger is pulled and the mass of the trigger bar outweighs that of the trigger shoe. Given that the P320 can be drop safe, I think the P365 can be as well. As for has anyone tested it, my guess is someone has. However, a test with a negative result gathers nowhere near the same YouTube views as one with a positive result, in this case. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

December 12, 2018, 12:13 PM	#6
Winny Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2018 Location: SC, USA Posts: 136	I would imagine after the P320 issues, Sig would be running a very tight ship on drop safety issues.

December 12, 2018, 01:26 PM	#7
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	While I don’t doubt SIG vetted the pistol thoroughly (and I’m sure SIG competitors did too!), the link in the Wikipedia article is to a Soldier Systems page of straight-up unedited SIG press releases (and that factoid isn’t on that page either). I’d be skeptical of any press release; but given the fine but misleading distinctions SIG has been known to make in the past regarding accidental discharges, I’d be extremely skeptical of this one. I’d put more faith in the absence of videos showing a problem than the press release. I’m sure there are a dozen or more Youtubers going at the P365 like a dwarven blacksmith at his forge.

December 12, 2018, 03:02 PM	#8
davidsog Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Posts: 1,326	It is not drop safe!!! Sell yours now and cheap so it goes fast.

December 12, 2018, 04:57 PM	#10
ManyMag Member Join Date: September 17, 2018 Location: Kerrville, Texas Posts: 53	There's just something wrong with the notion any gun is safe to drop.

December 13, 2018, 10:34 AM	#13
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I don’t care if you do it through practically perfect pistol handling or holsters and redundant mechanical safeties designed to mitigate human imperfection; but don’t be that reason why we can’t have nice things.

December 14, 2018, 06:46 PM	#16
ManyMag Member Join Date: September 17, 2018 Location: Kerrville, Texas Posts: 53	The good news is California and some other states require all handguns to be drop safe.

December 25, 2018, 09:58 PM	#17
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Ok, first of all, that 'chunky' trigger is hollow, not solid. Secondly it has a firing pin block to prevent the striker from releasing. I don't think the striker is fully cocked anyway, the trigger pull is fairly stiff.

December 25, 2018, 10:41 PM	#19
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	The bigger question ... but did she drop her gun while doing a back flip? If so, no charges

December 26, 2018, 04:21 PM	#21
gnystrom Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 308	You obviously know that nothing is drop safe. If that is truly a concern, stay away from guns and pepper spray and resort to carrying hockey pucks.