Need LE Advice for trade....help!

Powderman · April 1, 2005, 08:46 PM

Just got a project dumped into my lap by our Chief.

The Department wants some select-fire M4's, or M4geries--doesn't matter which as long as they are 3 round burst.

Our armorer (a good old guy, but not too up on the prices of firearms) has contacted a local LE dealer about exchanging some of our FA's for these M4's. I told him to wait, and then we talked to the Chief, and you know the rest.

Here's what they want to trade:

Four MP5's, original HK, LE transferable only, with magazines, in almost new condition.

So--wht say you? What could we get, in the form of M4's or similar designs, and what goodies in exchange for these SMG's?

Need advice NLT Monday night.

Powderman · April 2, 2005, 03:55 AM

Bump!

Extremist · April 2, 2005, 10:22 AM

Well, I'll chime in, as I've always kept an eye on Post '86/Form 5 LE/Military firearms on the boards, and from what I've seen, MP5 9mm's usually go for 800-1200 depending on condition and features.

Certainly, a new M4 14" or 16" select fire carbine can be had for that price range.

So if you can do even trades for new M4s with the nice features:

- removable carry handle
- M4 handguards, or some kind of rail system
- collapsible stock

I would think you would be doing a good trade.

What has your LE Dealer offered to do?

Regards,
James

Hkmp5sd · April 2, 2005, 12:18 PM

Give Bushmaster's law enforcement section a call at 1-800-998 SWAT and ask what kind of deal they can make. They provide 3-round burst and full auto weapons to many departments across the country and they can sell directly to your agency, so no dealer involved. There is a bunch of post '86 MP5s on the market, so it might take a while to find a dealer wanting one. If they were pre-86 samples, you could get $5-$8K for one.

Sir William · April 15, 2005, 09:22 PM

I agree. You should be able to either trade even up or make a 1 for 3 swap. This should be a 0 expense deal.

Terry Twit · May 2, 2005, 07:41 PM

Even is probably fair.

Reaper351 · May 6, 2005, 01:03 AM

I am gonna ask a really stupid question....why do they have to have a three round burst? Trigger control comes from the operator, not the selector lever. If you want a three round burst, depress and release the trigger for just three rounds. The cycle rate of the M4's isn't like a mac or an ingram. You and your men should be able to do it consistantly with training. I personally feel there is no need for a three round burst trigger. All it does is limit your options or makes you one click away from where you meant to move the selector lever.

Hkmp5sd · May 6, 2005, 10:28 AM

Three round burst is a mechanical fix to an operational problem. It is cheaper than the man-hours and ammunition needed to teach a person proper trigger control.

yorec · May 6, 2005, 11:38 AM

Also a liability issue for a perceived problem that'll probably never come up. Easy to justify a seldom used burst system since it's still "limited" as opposed to an "unlimited" option that only special situations would justify.

Lawyers screw everything up...

Lazy D · May 13, 2005, 01:06 PM

M-4 3 round burst gun suck. They use a cam system with two disconnectors that are always working. Even in the semi-auto mode. When you have been shooting single shots, and then switch to burst, you may get 1, 2, or 3 shots. You never know what you are going to get. With proper training, the operator can control the number of shots. We use M4 commandos on our team, and they are awesome. Any department can purchase the Colt weapons for under $900.00 delivered. (minus the FET) Phoenix Distributors in PA. will work trades for just about any old guns an agency has for trade-in.

April 1, 2005, 08:46 PM	#1
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Need LE Advice for trade....help! Just got a project dumped into my lap by our Chief. The Department wants some select-fire M4's, or M4geries--doesn't matter which as long as they are 3 round burst. Our armorer (a good old guy, but not too up on the prices of firearms) has contacted a local LE dealer about exchanging some of our FA's for these M4's. I told him to wait, and then we talked to the Chief, and you know the rest. Here's what they want to trade: Four MP5's, original HK, LE transferable only, with magazines, in almost new condition. So--wht say you? What could we get, in the form of M4's or similar designs, and what goodies in exchange for these SMG's? Need advice NLT Monday night. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

April 2, 2005, 03:55 AM	#2
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Bump! __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

April 2, 2005, 10:22 AM	#3
Extremist Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 275	Well, I'll chime in, as I've always kept an eye on Post '86/Form 5 LE/Military firearms on the boards, and from what I've seen, MP5 9mm's usually go for 800-1200 depending on condition and features. Certainly, a new M4 14" or 16" select fire carbine can be had for that price range. So if you can do even trades for new M4s with the nice features: - removable carry handle - M4 handguards, or some kind of rail system - collapsible stock I would think you would be doing a good trade. What has your LE Dealer offered to do? Regards, James __________________ DPS Certified CHL Instructor IDPA CSO, CDP/ESP/SSP/CCP/BUG EX, REV SS USPSA CRO, LIM-C, SS-C, CO-C, Certified Glock Armorer NRA H-R-S-HFS-RO, NRA Life Member, TSRA Member

April 2, 2005, 12:18 PM	#4
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Give Bushmaster's law enforcement section a call at 1-800-998 SWAT and ask what kind of deal they can make. They provide 3-round burst and full auto weapons to many departments across the country and they can sell directly to your agency, so no dealer involved. There is a bunch of post '86 MP5s on the market, so it might take a while to find a dealer wanting one. If they were pre-86 samples, you could get $5-$8K for one. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

May 6, 2005, 01:03 AM	#7
Reaper351 Junior Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Posts: 6	LE Advice I am gonna ask a really stupid question....why do they have to have a three round burst? Trigger control comes from the operator, not the selector lever. If you want a three round burst, depress and release the trigger for just three rounds. The cycle rate of the M4's isn't like a mac or an ingram. You and your men should be able to do it consistantly with training. I personally feel there is no need for a three round burst trigger. All it does is limit your options or makes you one click away from where you meant to move the selector lever.

April 15, 2005, 09:22 PM	#5
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	I agree. You should be able to either trade even up or make a 1 for 3 swap. This should be a 0 expense deal.

May 2, 2005, 07:41 PM	#6
Terry Twit Junior member Join Date: April 25, 2005 Posts: 61	Even is probably fair.

May 6, 2005, 10:28 AM	#8
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Three round burst is a mechanical fix to an operational problem. It is cheaper than the man-hours and ammunition needed to teach a person proper trigger control.

May 6, 2005, 11:38 AM	#9
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	Also a liability issue for a perceived problem that'll probably never come up. Easy to justify a seldom used burst system since it's still "limited" as opposed to an "unlimited" option that only special situations would justify. Lawyers screw everything up... __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

May 13, 2005, 01:06 PM	#10
Lazy D Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Indian Territory Posts: 192	Burst guns suck M-4 3 round burst gun suck. They use a cam system with two disconnectors that are always working. Even in the semi-auto mode. When you have been shooting single shots, and then switch to burst, you may get 1, 2, or 3 shots. You never know what you are going to get. With proper training, the operator can control the number of shots. We use M4 commandos on our team, and they are awesome. Any department can purchase the Colt weapons for under $900.00 delivered. (minus the FET) Phoenix Distributors in PA. will work trades for just about any old guns an agency has for trade-in. __________________ "Fast is Fine but accuracy is final.".....Wyatt Earp.

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