Brass Cleaning Rods?

RHarris · March 19, 2002, 10:52 PM

Does anyone make brass cleaning rods? If so, how well do they work? Are they rigid enough? It seems they would be less destructive to a barrel then steel or aluminum rods.
I've had real bad luck with those cheap jointed aluminum rods. I broke down and purchase a "good" single piece ss rod. I was much happier with it, but still wonder if it can be harmful since it is almost as hard ad the barrel.

Art Eatman · March 19, 2002, 11:18 PM

If you clean from the chamber end ot the works, you won't hurt anything, regardless of the material of the rod.

I have a single-piece SS rod, with one of those little patented brass cones to protect the muzzle. Works fine.

Probably the best is the Teflon-coated SS rod.

The main thing is to be careful and protect the crown of the muzzle.

Art

Dfariswheel · March 20, 2002, 01:01 AM

There are several companies that still make brass rods. The problem with brass, wood, and aluminum rods, is that grit can imbed into the soft metal. This turns the rod into a lap, that will wear the barrel.
Most people these days use stainless steel or a synthetic coated rod.

Art Eatman · March 20, 2002, 10:23 PM

Yeah, embedded grit could be a problem, but you'd have to work at it. First, it would take a fairly tight fit--which doesn't happen. Secondly, it would take a heckuva lotta strokes--but two or three passes, mostly, cleans most rifles adequately. Third, the good Lord invented steel wool to keep grit from accumulating on an aluminum rod. Or 600-grit wet-or-dry...

, Art

johnwill · March 21, 2002, 10:07 AM

Of course, I use a steel rod because it's tougher, it'll last longer than I will.

Keith J · March 21, 2002, 10:35 AM

I had an old Outers with swivel tip....the swivel broke and I got it free. I redrilled the swivel, cut the bit off the broken end and reassembled, crimping the swivel back on. Cost to me was nothing...I now use a Dewey.

But it was inferior in stiffness compared to any steel rod. Coated steel like Dewey are by far the best IF you have a dedicated storage tube and keep it clean. All rods will buckle and touch the bore. How hard they touch the bore is based on patch driving force, rod material, rod length and how the rod is held.

If you only pull patches, this dosen't matter but that's a real PITA.

Bogie · March 21, 2002, 11:14 AM

I beg to differ. It doesn't take much at all to ruin a barrel. If you have those jointed aluminum rods, give 'em to folks you don't like.

I use a pair of uncoated stainless Pro-Shot rods. I've also got Deweys... They're all nice.

Keith J · March 21, 2002, 12:43 PM

Their best use is as tomato plant stakes. Brass rods are softer than the bore but can embed abrasive just like aluminum or coated rods. Don't buy the hype that you cannot embed a coated or stainless rod as they are only more resistant to embedding.

Look at any stainless on alloy steel contact as probable wear. It will happen but how much and is it harmful depend on a host of other possibilities. Also remember until the bore is perfectly clean, you will have abrasive particles floating in cleaning solvent, in essence a grinding compound.

The best bet is to take care using a bore guide, proper fitting patches and good technique. And leave the segmented rods on the shelf for others to buy.

Ledbetter · March 21, 2002, 01:23 PM

I got one from Brownells and keep it wiped off after every pass through the bore. I only use it when I'm using a bore brush.

If I'm just pushing patches through, I use a wooden dowel that's been given of couple of coats of Tung oil. Also keeping it well wiped after each pass.

Regards.

johnwill · March 21, 2002, 03:43 PM

Why wouldn't the wooden dowel pick up and hold abrasive material as good or better than the aluminum or brass rod?

Art Eatman · March 21, 2002, 04:48 PM

My pet '06 was new in 1971. It's got probably around 4,000 rounds through it. Dunno how bad I've been ruining the barrel with the way I've used various solvents and even the dreaded jointed aluminum rod (before I got a stainless one-piece), but in October of 1997 I got a three-shot, 1/2" group out of it.

And last year I got two four-shot, four-inch groups at 500 yards.

In other words, a half a lick of common sense and a bit of care and Bad Things are unlikely.

I mostly clean from the chamber-end, and use a .22 rod and a 2"x2" GI patch with WD 40 sprayed lightly onto the patch. Then a dry patch. Wipe down gun and put away.

, Art

Ledbetter · March 21, 2002, 04:49 PM

Good question. All rods probably pick up whatever abrasive particles are in the barrel. But I figure the soft wood doesn't make a very good bore lapper. Also, the tung oil finish makes the dowel wipe clean (no pores), snd as I said, I wipe it down after each patch.

I usually clean a centerfire rifle by pushing three or four very wet CLP patches through with a dowel, followed by ten brushings with a bronze brush on the graphite rod. After that, I push wet patches through til clean, then a dry patch, then an oily patch (Mobile One; CLP Collector if I'm not gonna shoot it again for a while).

Regards,

Ledbetter

Bogie · March 21, 2002, 05:51 PM

Hey, Art, if you clean that rifle that way all the time, see what happens if you use a copper remover - Wait - On second thought, you may have had pitting form under the copper, and that might be a bad idea...

But when it shoots "bad" how bad does it shoot? A 0.5" group every so often doesn't mean that a rifle will do that consistently.

Art Eatman · March 22, 2002, 03:02 AM

A few years back, my pet '06's groups opened out to about 1-1/4" I bought some copper remover (forget which brand) and followed the directions. Groups went back down to the usual 3/4", with the best being that 1/2".

Did the same procedure on my .243. Same sort of deal--back to the usual 5/8" to 3/4" groups, with the best being three that were fully hidden by a dime.

No visible pitting...

Some of my lack of problems is from an average humidity of 20% or less. Deserts are like that. I've always kept stuff clean and with a very thin film of oil. Thin = less dust buildup. I rarely touch steel except when I'm serious about shooting, so any salt/sweat doesn't start a problem.

, Art

9mmMike · March 22, 2002, 09:23 AM

OK. Showing my ignorance here but except for damaging the crown which is easy to avoid, how can a rod hurt a barrel?
My gosh, how fragile are these rifles? Don't we blast stuff through them all the time? Are these rifle barrels made in such a way that they are one-way only? This is like "don't drive the car backwards, the tires will be damaged". I keep my weapons very clean. I clean from the muzzle if I can not readily do it from the breech.
My rifles do not appear to be ruined. I am no Match shooter and perhaps that is the difference. The idea of a cleaning rod flexing and touching the inside of my barrel does not make me shake with fear. I guess I could round up my thirty year old .22's that I've been ruining and hussle them out to a smith before I have a catastophic failure but then again, probably not.
Mike

Art Eatman · March 22, 2002, 11:11 PM

Now, there ya go, Mike. You're asking the sort of questions I do, and that'll get ya in trouble.

In some of the past threads we've had on how to clean a rifle, I can't tell if folks are cleaning them or having a love affair...

, Art

S.F.S · March 23, 2002, 06:59 AM

Art,
Its funny you mentioned "A love affair" thats what my wife asked me last night and I said sarcasticly "Yep" and she replied, "Will that gun keep you warm at night" and I replied, "Only if I shoot it first"

Back to the topic I usually use Hoppe's one piece aluminum rods and use a brass cone to center it and wipe the rod down during use. I have used coated rods in the past.
I agree with some of the others you have to be careful in whatever rod you use. Aluminum is softer than steel at least in the guns I have

I am sure glad I didn't buy a SS rod when I got my first gun about 3 yrs ago which was a Ruger GP100. I was constantly scraping the muzzle with the aluminum rod, I was never taught the proper way to clean a gun about a year later I gained some knowledge of guns and learned how. I still have that GP100 with an undamaged muzzle and I use a brass cone now.

Art Eatman · March 23, 2002, 10:37 AM

Whoever thought up that little brass cone was definitely a Smart Fella.

An advantage with a bolt action is that you can clean from the chamber end of things, and not worry about damaging the crown.

For all that I tease a bit about the way folks seem to be overly concerned about some stuff, I have always taken as much care with my tools as with my guns and cars. Nuthin' gets put away greasy, grungy or just plain ol' dirty...

If what you have is a jointed aluminum rod, and you don't have a loose $23 for a teflon-coated one-piece steel rod, take some steel wool and rub down your aluminum rod. Wash with a dab of gasoline--or soap and water. Dry with patch--or paper towel. Good to go. No way you'll accumulate enough grit in one cleaning to hurt anything.

, Art

S.F.S · March 23, 2002, 10:56 AM

Art,
Are you talking 0000 steelwool or something more coarse?

I also find them brass cones come in handy even when cleaning a bolt action to keep the rod centered if you don't have a bore guide which I don't yet.
Scott

Art Eatman · March 23, 2002, 04:29 PM

Just whatever's handy. The idea is to get the relatively small amount of embedded grunge broken loose where it'll wash off.

Art

March 19, 2002, 10:52 PM	#1
RHarris Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2000 Posts: 416	Brass Cleaning Rods? Does anyone make brass cleaning rods? If so, how well do they work? Are they rigid enough? It seems they would be less destructive to a barrel then steel or aluminum rods. I've had real bad luck with those cheap jointed aluminum rods. I broke down and purchase a "good" single piece ss rod. I was much happier with it, but still wonder if it can be harmful since it is almost as hard ad the barrel.

March 21, 2002, 10:07 AM	#5
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Of course, I use a steel rod because it's tougher, it'll last longer than I will. __________________ I collect old pistols, got any?

March 21, 2002, 10:35 AM	#6
Keith J Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2000 Posts: 469	Brass was the old standard... I had an old Outers with swivel tip....the swivel broke and I got it free. I redrilled the swivel, cut the bit off the broken end and reassembled, crimping the swivel back on. Cost to me was nothing...I now use a Dewey. But it was inferior in stiffness compared to any steel rod. Coated steel like Dewey are by far the best IF you have a dedicated storage tube and keep it clean. All rods will buckle and touch the bore. How hard they touch the bore is based on patch driving force, rod material, rod length and how the rod is held. If you only pull patches, this dosen't matter but that's a real PITA.

March 21, 2002, 11:14 AM	#7
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	I beg to differ. It doesn't take much at all to ruin a barrel. If you have those jointed aluminum rods, give 'em to folks you don't like. I use a pair of uncoated stainless Pro-Shot rods. I've also got Deweys... They're all nice. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

March 21, 2002, 12:43 PM	#8
Keith J Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2000 Posts: 469	I agree on the aluminum rods... Their best use is as tomato plant stakes. Brass rods are softer than the bore but can embed abrasive just like aluminum or coated rods. Don't buy the hype that you cannot embed a coated or stainless rod as they are only more resistant to embedding. Look at any stainless on alloy steel contact as probable wear. It will happen but how much and is it harmful depend on a host of other possibilities. Also remember until the bore is perfectly clean, you will have abrasive particles floating in cleaning solvent, in essence a grinding compound. The best bet is to take care using a bore guide, proper fitting patches and good technique. And leave the segmented rods on the shelf for others to buy.

March 19, 2002, 11:18 PM	#2
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	If you clean from the chamber end ot the works, you won't hurt anything, regardless of the material of the rod. I have a single-piece SS rod, with one of those little patented brass cones to protect the muzzle. Works fine. Probably the best is the Teflon-coated SS rod. The main thing is to be careful and protect the crown of the muzzle. Art

March 20, 2002, 01:01 AM	#3
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	There are several companies that still make brass rods. The problem with brass, wood, and aluminum rods, is that grit can imbed into the soft metal. This turns the rod into a lap, that will wear the barrel. Most people these days use stainless steel or a synthetic coated rod.

March 20, 2002, 10:23 PM	#4
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Yeah, embedded grit could be a problem, but you'd have to work at it. First, it would take a fairly tight fit--which doesn't happen. Secondly, it would take a heckuva lotta strokes--but two or three passes, mostly, cleans most rifles adequately. Third, the good Lord invented steel wool to keep grit from accumulating on an aluminum rod. Or 600-grit wet-or-dry... , Art

March 21, 2002, 01:23 PM	#9
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Graphite rod I got one from Brownells and keep it wiped off after every pass through the bore. I only use it when I'm using a bore brush. If I'm just pushing patches through, I use a wooden dowel that's been given of couple of coats of Tung oil. Also keeping it well wiped after each pass. Regards.

March 21, 2002, 03:43 PM	#10
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Why wouldn't the wooden dowel pick up and hold abrasive material as good or better than the aluminum or brass rod? __________________ I collect old pistols, got any?

March 21, 2002, 04:48 PM	#11
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	My pet '06 was new in 1971. It's got probably around 4,000 rounds through it. Dunno how bad I've been ruining the barrel with the way I've used various solvents and even the dreaded jointed aluminum rod (before I got a stainless one-piece), but in October of 1997 I got a three-shot, 1/2" group out of it. And last year I got two four-shot, four-inch groups at 500 yards. In other words, a half a lick of common sense and a bit of care and Bad Things are unlikely. I mostly clean from the chamber-end, and use a .22 rod and a 2"x2" GI patch with WD 40 sprayed lightly onto the patch. Then a dry patch. Wipe down gun and put away. , Art

March 21, 2002, 04:49 PM	#12
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Hey johnwill Good question. All rods probably pick up whatever abrasive particles are in the barrel. But I figure the soft wood doesn't make a very good bore lapper. Also, the tung oil finish makes the dowel wipe clean (no pores), snd as I said, I wipe it down after each patch. I usually clean a centerfire rifle by pushing three or four very wet CLP patches through with a dowel, followed by ten brushings with a bronze brush on the graphite rod. After that, I push wet patches through til clean, then a dry patch, then an oily patch (Mobile One; CLP Collector if I'm not gonna shoot it again for a while). Regards, Ledbetter

March 21, 2002, 05:51 PM	#13
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Hey, Art, if you clean that rifle that way all the time, see what happens if you use a copper remover - Wait - On second thought, you may have had pitting form under the copper, and that might be a bad idea... But when it shoots "bad" how bad does it shoot? A 0.5" group every so often doesn't mean that a rifle will do that consistently. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

March 22, 2002, 03:02 AM	#14
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	A few years back, my pet '06's groups opened out to about 1-1/4" I bought some copper remover (forget which brand) and followed the directions. Groups went back down to the usual 3/4", with the best being that 1/2". Did the same procedure on my .243. Same sort of deal--back to the usual 5/8" to 3/4" groups, with the best being three that were fully hidden by a dime. No visible pitting... Some of my lack of problems is from an average humidity of 20% or less. Deserts are like that. I've always kept stuff clean and with a very thin film of oil. Thin = less dust buildup. I rarely touch steel except when I'm serious about shooting, so any salt/sweat doesn't start a problem. , Art

March 22, 2002, 09:23 AM	#15
9mmMike Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: SE PA Posts: 1,049	OK. Showing my ignorance here but except for damaging the crown which is easy to avoid, how can a rod hurt a barrel? My gosh, how fragile are these rifles? Don't we blast stuff through them all the time? Are these rifle barrels made in such a way that they are one-way only? This is like "don't drive the car backwards, the tires will be damaged". I keep my weapons very clean. I clean from the muzzle if I can not readily do it from the breech. My rifles do not appear to be ruined. I am no Match shooter and perhaps that is the difference. The idea of a cleaning rod flexing and touching the inside of my barrel does not make me shake with fear. I guess I could round up my thirty year old .22's that I've been ruining and hussle them out to a smith before I have a catastophic failure but then again, probably not. Mike __________________ "Freedom is not free" Visit TheRallyPoint.org TheRallyPoint at LRGC- Saturday August 26th IF YOU LIVE IN PA AND DID NOT VOTE, YOU DESERVE TO LOSE YOUR GUNS!

March 22, 2002, 11:11 PM	#16
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Now, there ya go, Mike. You're asking the sort of questions I do, and that'll get ya in trouble. In some of the past threads we've had on how to clean a rifle, I can't tell if folks are cleaning them or having a love affair... , Art

March 23, 2002, 06:59 AM	#17
S.F.S Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2001 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 469	Art, Its funny you mentioned "A love affair" thats what my wife asked me last night and I said sarcasticly "Yep" and she replied, "Will that gun keep you warm at night" and I replied, "Only if I shoot it first" Back to the topic I usually use Hoppe's one piece aluminum rods and use a brass cone to center it and wipe the rod down during use. I have used coated rods in the past. I agree with some of the others you have to be careful in whatever rod you use. Aluminum is softer than steel at least in the guns I have I am sure glad I didn't buy a SS rod when I got my first gun about 3 yrs ago which was a Ruger GP100. I was constantly scraping the muzzle with the aluminum rod, I was never taught the proper way to clean a gun about a year later I gained some knowledge of guns and learned how. I still have that GP100 with an undamaged muzzle and I use a brass cone now. __________________ My Wife Yes, My Dog Maybe, My Guns NEVER!!!

March 23, 2002, 10:37 AM	#18
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Whoever thought up that little brass cone was definitely a Smart Fella. An advantage with a bolt action is that you can clean from the chamber end of things, and not worry about damaging the crown. For all that I tease a bit about the way folks seem to be overly concerned about some stuff, I have always taken as much care with my tools as with my guns and cars. Nuthin' gets put away greasy, grungy or just plain ol' dirty... If what you have is a jointed aluminum rod, and you don't have a loose $23 for a teflon-coated one-piece steel rod, take some steel wool and rub down your aluminum rod. Wash with a dab of gasoline--or soap and water. Dry with patch--or paper towel. Good to go. No way you'll accumulate enough grit in one cleaning to hurt anything. , Art

March 23, 2002, 10:56 AM	#19
S.F.S Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2001 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 469	Art, Are you talking 0000 steelwool or something more coarse? I also find them brass cones come in handy even when cleaning a bolt action to keep the rod centered if you don't have a bore guide which I don't yet. Scott __________________ My Wife Yes, My Dog Maybe, My Guns NEVER!!!

March 23, 2002, 04:29 PM	#20
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Just whatever's handy. The idea is to get the relatively small amount of embedded grunge broken loose where it'll wash off. Art