Canned Hunts - Page 3

phil mcwilliam · April 21, 2009, 07:29 AM

Last year when I hunted in Africa I was disappointed when seeing the fences surrounding the concession I was hunting, although my initial apprehension was gone once I realised the 30,000 acres was big enough for even giraffes to hide in. Canned hunts had only been banned in South Africa a few years prior to my trip. My guide actually took me to a place where they previously had canned hunts for lion. The 100 yard x 100 yard enclosure resembled an oversized tennis court with high wire mesh fencing with the top 3 ft angled 45 degrees inwards intertwined with razor wire - not my idea of a fair hunt. My guide explained now that for hunting lion in South Africa a "game ranch" must be over 3,000 acres & the lion if imported to the area must be released at least 12 months prior to hunting. I think there is a need to manage wildlife resources in every part of the world, but unfortunately there will always be stories of "arnold" the pig.

kyle1974 · April 21, 2009, 07:34 AM

I've hunted on a 3500 acre high fence place, and I promise you that fence gives you no "guarantees".

the only thing that fence does, is keep the deer from jumping a fence and getting shot by neighbors who think a 1.5 year old 11 pointer is a real trophy.

as for "canned" hunts, (if anyone could actually define what that is) isn't my cup of tea.... but why is it any worse than a slaughterhouse for the ultimate end (i.e dead animal)? I'd guess some of you guys complaining about canned hunts have never seen how it goes down in a meat market or slaughterhouse...

fisherman66 · April 21, 2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

fisherman66, Pretty big list for it to be, "Complete and utter malarky." orchidhunter

I don't feel like playing huckleberry with you so I ain't gonna do the math, but I'd GUESS the average acreage of the list I posted is well over 10,000 acres and many don't have a single fence. Please narrow the list down to the ones that are high fenced and under say 100 acres so I can write my state rep and ask that the TPWD withdrawl their contract with those canned hunts.

ZeSpectre · April 21, 2009, 07:53 AM

My general impression is that these types of hunts seem like someone is buying bragging rights to that trophy on the wall.

I think I'd have to see it first hand to decide if I felt it was "real" hunting or just a shooting gallery.

Either way I'm not going to move to shut it down but I doubt I'd have a very high approval rating for the folks who participate. Seems to me that sometimes there really is a right way to do things and I'm not sure "canned" hunts are it.

This being a completely different matter from sustenance hunting in which case I'm for anything that puts meat on the table.

Art Eatman · April 21, 2009, 08:49 AM

Post #51 gave a good idea of what a "canned hunt" area is. They had similar problems in Arkansas a few years back, and such nastiness was outlawed there, as well. Then there was the celebrated Jimmy Houston canned shooting up north, which was discussed both here and at THR. But these were anomalous events, and have been dealt with.

As for the YO, it's much smaller than when Capt. Charles Schreiner first took up some half-million acres. When Charley III was running it as a hunting ranch, it was down to some 50,000 acres. The gate lock's combination was changed every month, starting with .25-35 and going on up to .45-70.

Two of Charley III's ex-wives had an antique store in Austin. They both agreed, "I love him, but I just couldn't stay married to him." They'd both go to the ranch as hostesses for gatherings there. Bobby Snow was ranch manager, back then. His wife had a couple of cougars and a couple of jaguars in a little zoo-llike deal. Hal Matheny, Jerome Alexander and a guy nicknamed "Buttons" were hunting guides there.

So, yeah, I know a little bit about the YO. Charley's dead, now, though, and I've not kept track since they started selling "ranchettes" of a hundred acres or so.

The YO was instrumental in the beginnings of exotics in Texas. They had Sally the eland, who browsed on scrub-oak leaves. Blackbuck antelope and Axis deer. Even a Himalayan mountain sheep (goat?) which could stand flat-footed and jump some eight feet. There was also a sizable herd of longhorns.

But, yeah, orchidhunter, tell us of your eyewitness account of somebody on the YO shooting an animal in a 100'x100' pen. If you didn't see it yourself, or personally know the observer as a reliable witness, don't try to feed us any more non-factual nonsense.

kyle1974 · April 21, 2009, 09:37 AM

Just like these "canned hunts" people have told me about that occur on the king ranch.... most of these people have never set foot on the king, (or any of these other places), and talk about them like they have lifelong first hand experience with them.

even with the sale of the 40-100 acre tracts on the YO, the main outside fence is still in place. the ranchettes are included within the boundary, so the ranch itself being 40K acres +/- is still essentially there.

My problem with people getting on this canned hunt bandwagon, is that some people think 300 acres is canned, some people think 50 acres is canned..some people have no idea how many acres is canned.

The anti hunters don't give a damn HOW many acres we hunt on. They don't like hunting, and they want it all to end. This is the same path as gun control. give them an inch, they will take a mile

Mainah · April 21, 2009, 10:14 AM

This issue has been in the news here in Maine recently, there was an effort to ban "canned" hunts that take place here. The owners of a couple of these outfits actually did a good job of defending themselves and the legislature dropped an attempt to ban this form of hunting.

I wouldn't participate, but if the outfit is well run I don't find it any less ethical than raising stock for slaughter and sale.

eaglesnester · April 21, 2009, 10:40 AM

I only hunt wild canny muleys. They are smart and secretive. They are so smart up here in the Northern Interior of B.C. Canada that you could hunt for years and never get on to one.
We also have the farmer fields bucks that you can only access with permission from the landowner. They stand out there on private land in the alfalfa and almost say (here I am come and shoot me) No thanks, I would rather go out locate a willey trophy buck, sneak and peak then take him like a real hunter. Taking a trophy muley is very, very difficult, you got to be very good to get up on one. You can take the canned hunts if that's the way you want to do it but it ante my cup of tea.

Buzzcook · April 21, 2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

I just returned "empty handed" from a weeks guided deer hunt on a cattle property that had a deer proof perimeter fence. This privately owned cattle property in South Australia spans over 400,000 acres.

I'd be pretty damn upset. Someone who has animals on their property and can't drop you off with in rifle shot of them is ripping you off.

taz1 · April 21, 2009, 11:47 AM

i still cant get over poor old fred.

sounds like you got some real f-up friends. they probly dump their dogs and cats when their no longer small and cute too.

as for fred a 1000 lb pig, you would need a gun to make him run, he would over heat and stroke out in less than 100yd.:barf:

any one that saw a 9 ft. 1000 lb. pig and thought it was wild is a idot and im glad they are hunting in a enclosed area instead of the woods where i might be.

i raised a lot of hogs growing up an old fred has my bs meter pegging out.

orchidhunter · April 21, 2009, 11:54 AM

Although hunting and wildlife issues have traditionally been regulated under the jurisdiction of the individual states, uniform, consistent, unambiguous federal legislation is needed to address the issues raised by “canned hunts.” This is vital for both the welfare protection of animals and the ethical hunting community. The inhumane treatment and ultimate death of animals involved in “canned hunts” can only be seen as intentional acts of animal cruelty and abuse. The damage this industry does to the legitimacy of hunting is immeasurable. The only purpose for this cruelty is economic gain for those who provide the animals or the opportunity to participate in this act.

Without federal regulation, the killing of captive animals for profit will continue. orchidhunter

ZeSpectre · April 21, 2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

uniform, consistent, unambiguous federal legislation is needed to address the issues raised by “canned hunts.”

Wow, when have you ever seen Federal legislation meet the requirements of "uniform, consistent, unambiguous"?

I worked with movers and shakers in DC for almost 20 years and I never saw that.

bwheasler · April 21, 2009, 12:44 PM

This kind of inter hunter bickering is just what anti-hunter and PETA want. We as hunter have to stay united. As far Federal Gov regulated anything, how is that going. The way you shut down unethical canned hunts is to inform real hunter about the truth. Then they won't go, canned hunt runs out of money and closes. If they have a bad product , then no one will come. Canned is a relative term. Fishing in 1/2 pond, canned fishing compared the the ocean. Shooting does over a feeder. Saying a canned hunt the animal doen't have a chance. Give Chuck Adams his bow and most animals do have chance. See what mean. Remember folks, other hunters are not the enemy.

Wildebees · April 21, 2009, 01:15 PM

Yes, all the posts here are to the point because it is not hunting; maybe at best it is dispatching a live animal along its journey towards becoming good steaks or coarsely ground sausage, or biltong (as we call our local jerky delicacy).

Some foreign clients of “canned hunts” where a lion was the animal to be culled out of the fenced-in pride of three did indeed know that it was an old and well-fed circus performer in its days. Nevertheless that did not distract the trigger-puller to pose with the carcass and even display the nicely draped skin or mounted “trophy” in his Vermont home.

A few years ago my one gun-shop owner pal (man I made him financially successful with all the hardware I bought from him, but he was so damn good on cold rainy days when I was not flying aeroplanes around to stock sales - he would call me in for some long-winded chillies rolled into sandwich size processed cheese and showing me the newest .375 H&H he had) went to get a gemsbok (Oryx) on a 30 000 hectare (NOT acres!) fenced farm near a town that goes by the name of Vyburg (like in “Free Town” - the name is from a rather interesting moment in my beloved country’s colourful history). Now to walk and stalk and find and shoot and kill a gemsbok around 30 000 hectares of savannah, even though fenced in can by no means described as “canned”.

Servaas (“sehr-fahs”) was a rather good shot if not the world fittest loper, so he and his 7x57 got the nicest gemsbok around 4 in the afternoon, but he was rather clapped out by the time the farmer located him and loaded him and the bled carcass onto the Ford F250 pick-up truck (which we call a “bakkie” here like in “plucking” but with a b and without the ph and the ng).

The farmer was a well-known cattle breeder as well and on the way home to the cool room he went via the small 300 hectare fenced in corral to - let’s be honest - brag with his red and white Brahman cattle living on the best natural feeding the Kalahari has to offer in preparation for his production stock sale planned a few months down the line.

Servaas stood on the back of the bakkie with his .22-250 having locked the mauser into the hard case. The owner drove around, and talking outside towards the back he was expounding the virtues of his well bred herds and pointed out some exceptionally good blood and how his good eye had chosen the bull as well as the cows that had bred these.

“How much would that tan ox at ten ‘o clock fetch you at the sale”, Servaas asked.

Now farmers are forever playing off low prices against rising costs to show how they suffer under financial pressures and in typical fashion the answer was: “You know these damn stock sales and those skelm (devious) buyers form the big cities - They’ll probably offer me no more than R3 000 if they buy a pen of 50”.

In that single moment, without hesitation, while the resonance of the burly and bearded driver of the bakkie’ voice was still hanging in the quiet afternoon sunlight of the Kalahari the ox’s front legs folded as a 45 grain monolithic solid whizzed through its brain. The rifle’s short but loud report had already left the area in its expanding shockwave bubble across the savannah and into the atmosphere. All Servaas said was: “You’ve got three thousand”.

Now that is canned hunting.

And if you know a Brahman ox living off the land you’ll want a little more than a .22-250 had you stalked him and cornered him against the fences… Man, he is sure to give you quite a bit more run for your money than any bison bred on salt licks and GM pellets!

fisherman66 · April 21, 2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Without federal regulation, the killing of captive animals for profit will continue. orchidhunter

There is federal regulation. It's the FDA. I see you are ducking my question, Art's and many others. Off to iggy land wichya.

kyle1974 · April 21, 2009, 01:45 PM

How is it more inhumane for an animal to get shot in a 50 acre pen vs a non fenced area?

dead is dead.... get over it, and STFU already.

publius · April 21, 2009, 01:59 PM

that fred the pig story is ridiculous. did it happen, maybe, but it does not represent any type of hunt no matter what you want to call it. If it did happen I seriously doubt there is another case with any similarities.

Para Bellum · April 21, 2009, 03:54 PM

...hunting rookies don't know how they will react at their first shooting chance. I think it's not at all a bad idea to let any hunter make their first kill in a most controlled environment. That prevents game from bad shoots as good as possible, too.

Once you know that you won't shake at a killing chance and that you are able of placing the shot well, I see no point in canned hunting unless meat production etc.

kyle1974 · April 21, 2009, 04:06 PM

The only reason that "fred the pig" story is so "out there" is because of two reasons..

1. the pig was friggen enormous.
2. a kid shot it.

At the end of the day.... who cares, it was just a damn pig. they're essentially a pest.

cat9x · April 21, 2009, 04:33 PM

If it wasn't for Texas ranches offering exotic hunts of Blackbuck, Scimitar Oryx, Aoudad, etc, these animals would all be but extinct (as they are nearly in their native countries).

As far as canned hunts with no place to run or hide, I guess you've never been to Texas or set foot on a typical ranch. Many of our exotics are free ranging by the way.

glockman55 · April 21, 2009, 04:47 PM

The problem I have with pinned up wild game is when they spread disease to the wild heard outside the fence..

hogdogs · April 21, 2009, 05:43 PM

One point I just remembered is that even on a small farm, there have been feral cattle caught by hog dogs and the land owner had no clue it was there... the time I am aware of was on a 1,000 acre farm/ranch that had much in pasture and the rest in tomatoes and citrus... Just a few little "bayheads" of swamps to hide in...
Brent

Art Eatman · April 21, 2009, 07:53 PM

orchidhunter's idea about canned hunts is really just too foolish for knowledgeable people to give any credence to it. It's a very rare situation, and is already outlawed by most states. As instances are discovered, they also lead to elimination by law. Trying to bring the Feds into the deal is just another case of a solution looking for a problem.

Enough of feeding a troll.

April 21, 2009, 10:40 AM	#58
eaglesnester Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Posts: 100	Canned hunts I only hunt wild canny muleys. They are smart and secretive. They are so smart up here in the Northern Interior of B.C. Canada that you could hunt for years and never get on to one. We also have the farmer fields bucks that you can only access with permission from the landowner. They stand out there on private land in the alfalfa and almost say (here I am come and shoot me) No thanks, I would rather go out locate a willey trophy buck, sneak and peak then take him like a real hunter. Taking a trophy muley is very, very difficult, you got to be very good to get up on one. You can take the canned hunts if that's the way you want to do it but it ante my cup of tea.

April 21, 2009, 12:44 PM	#63
bwheasler Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Indianapolis In Posts: 108	United Hunters. This kind of inter hunter bickering is just what anti-hunter and PETA want. We as hunter have to stay united. As far Federal Gov regulated anything, how is that going. The way you shut down unethical canned hunts is to inform real hunter about the truth. Then they won't go, canned hunt runs out of money and closes. If they have a bad product , then no one will come. Canned is a relative term. Fishing in 1/2 pond, canned fishing compared the the ocean. Shooting does over a feeder. Saying a canned hunt the animal doen't have a chance. Give Chuck Adams his bow and most animals do have chance. See what mean. Remember folks, other hunters are not the enemy.

April 21, 2009, 01:15 PM	#64
Wildebees Member Join Date: August 9, 2008 Location: Pretoria, South Africa Posts: 89	To Can Or Not To Can Be The Main Misnomer Of A Hunt Yes, all the posts here are to the point because it is not hunting; maybe at best it is dispatching a live animal along its journey towards becoming good steaks or coarsely ground sausage, or biltong (as we call our local jerky delicacy). Some foreign clients of “canned hunts” where a lion was the animal to be culled out of the fenced-in pride of three did indeed know that it was an old and well-fed circus performer in its days. Nevertheless that did not distract the trigger-puller to pose with the carcass and even display the nicely draped skin or mounted “trophy” in his Vermont home. A few years ago my one gun-shop owner pal (man I made him financially successful with all the hardware I bought from him, but he was so damn good on cold rainy days when I was not flying aeroplanes around to stock sales - he would call me in for some long-winded chillies rolled into sandwich size processed cheese and showing me the newest .375 H&H he had) went to get a gemsbok (Oryx) on a 30 000 hectare (NOT acres!) fenced farm near a town that goes by the name of Vyburg (like in “Free Town” - the name is from a rather interesting moment in my beloved country’s colourful history). Now to walk and stalk and find and shoot and kill a gemsbok around 30 000 hectares of savannah, even though fenced in can by no means described as “canned”. Servaas (“sehr-fahs”) was a rather good shot if not the world fittest loper, so he and his 7x57 got the nicest gemsbok around 4 in the afternoon, but he was rather clapped out by the time the farmer located him and loaded him and the bled carcass onto the Ford F250 pick-up truck (which we call a “bakkie” here like in “plucking” but with a b and without the ph and the ng). The farmer was a well-known cattle breeder as well and on the way home to the cool room he went via the small 300 hectare fenced in corral to - let’s be honest - brag with his red and white Brahman cattle living on the best natural feeding the Kalahari has to offer in preparation for his production stock sale planned a few months down the line. Servaas stood on the back of the bakkie with his .22-250 having locked the mauser into the hard case. The owner drove around, and talking outside towards the back he was expounding the virtues of his well bred herds and pointed out some exceptionally good blood and how his good eye had chosen the bull as well as the cows that had bred these. “How much would that tan ox at ten ‘o clock fetch you at the sale”, Servaas asked. Now farmers are forever playing off low prices against rising costs to show how they suffer under financial pressures and in typical fashion the answer was: “You know these damn stock sales and those skelm (devious) buyers form the big cities - They’ll probably offer me no more than R3 000 if they buy a pen of 50”. In that single moment, without hesitation, while the resonance of the burly and bearded driver of the bakkie’ voice was still hanging in the quiet afternoon sunlight of the Kalahari the ox’s front legs folded as a 45 grain monolithic solid whizzed through its brain. The rifle’s short but loud report had already left the area in its expanding shockwave bubble across the savannah and into the atmosphere. All Servaas said was: “You’ve got three thousand”. Now that is canned hunting. And if you know a Brahman ox living off the land you’ll want a little more than a .22-250 had you stalked him and cornered him against the fences… Man, he is sure to give you quite a bit more run for your money than any bison bred on salt licks and GM pellets! __________________ "Do you not know that all human ills and mean-spiritedness and cowardice arise not from death but from fear of death? Against this therefor fortify yourself....then you shall find that by this alone are men made free."

April 21, 2009, 01:59 PM	#67
publius Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Mississippi/Texas Posts: 2,505	that fred the pig story is ridiculous. did it happen, maybe, but it does not represent any type of hunt no matter what you want to call it. If it did happen I seriously doubt there is another case with any similarities. __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain

April 21, 2009, 03:54 PM	#68
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Not bad for very first kill... ...hunting rookies don't know how they will react at their first shooting chance. I think it's not at all a bad idea to let any hunter make their first kill in a most controlled environment. That prevents game from bad shoots as good as possible, too. Once you know that you won't shake at a killing chance and that you are able of placing the shot well, I see no point in canned hunting unless meat production etc. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

April 21, 2009, 07:29 AM	#51
phil mcwilliam Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2007 Posts: 573	Last year when I hunted in Africa I was disappointed when seeing the fences surrounding the concession I was hunting, although my initial apprehension was gone once I realised the 30,000 acres was big enough for even giraffes to hide in. Canned hunts had only been banned in South Africa a few years prior to my trip. My guide actually took me to a place where they previously had canned hunts for lion. The 100 yard x 100 yard enclosure resembled an oversized tennis court with high wire mesh fencing with the top 3 ft angled 45 degrees inwards intertwined with razor wire - not my idea of a fair hunt. My guide explained now that for hunting lion in South Africa a "game ranch" must be over 3,000 acres & the lion if imported to the area must be released at least 12 months prior to hunting. I think there is a need to manage wildlife resources in every part of the world, but unfortunately there will always be stories of "arnold" the pig.

April 21, 2009, 07:34 AM	#52
kyle1974 Junior member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 254	I've hunted on a 3500 acre high fence place, and I promise you that fence gives you no "guarantees". the only thing that fence does, is keep the deer from jumping a fence and getting shot by neighbors who think a 1.5 year old 11 pointer is a real trophy. as for "canned" hunts, (if anyone could actually define what that is) isn't my cup of tea.... but why is it any worse than a slaughterhouse for the ultimate end (i.e dead animal)? I'd guess some of you guys complaining about canned hunts have never seen how it goes down in a meat market or slaughterhouse...

April 21, 2009, 07:53 AM	#54
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	My general impression is that these types of hunts seem like someone is buying bragging rights to that trophy on the wall. I think I'd have to see it first hand to decide if I felt it was "real" hunting or just a shooting gallery. Either way I'm not going to move to shut it down but I doubt I'd have a very high approval rating for the folks who participate. Seems to me that sometimes there really is a right way to do things and I'm not sure "canned" hunts are it. This being a completely different matter from sustenance hunting in which case I'm for anything that puts meat on the table.

April 21, 2009, 08:49 AM	#55
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Post #51 gave a good idea of what a "canned hunt" area is. They had similar problems in Arkansas a few years back, and such nastiness was outlawed there, as well. Then there was the celebrated Jimmy Houston canned shooting up north, which was discussed both here and at THR. But these were anomalous events, and have been dealt with. As for the YO, it's much smaller than when Capt. Charles Schreiner first took up some half-million acres. When Charley III was running it as a hunting ranch, it was down to some 50,000 acres. The gate lock's combination was changed every month, starting with .25-35 and going on up to .45-70. Two of Charley III's ex-wives had an antique store in Austin. They both agreed, "I love him, but I just couldn't stay married to him." They'd both go to the ranch as hostesses for gatherings there. Bobby Snow was ranch manager, back then. His wife had a couple of cougars and a couple of jaguars in a little zoo-llike deal. Hal Matheny, Jerome Alexander and a guy nicknamed "Buttons" were hunting guides there. So, yeah, I know a little bit about the YO. Charley's dead, now, though, and I've not kept track since they started selling "ranchettes" of a hundred acres or so. The YO was instrumental in the beginnings of exotics in Texas. They had Sally the eland, who browsed on scrub-oak leaves. Blackbuck antelope and Axis deer. Even a Himalayan mountain sheep (goat?) which could stand flat-footed and jump some eight feet. There was also a sizable herd of longhorns. But, yeah, orchidhunter, tell us of your eyewitness account of somebody on the YO shooting an animal in a 100'x100' pen. If you didn't see it yourself, or personally know the observer as a reliable witness, don't try to feed us any more non-factual nonsense.

April 21, 2009, 09:37 AM	#56
kyle1974 Junior member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 254	Just like these "canned hunts" people have told me about that occur on the king ranch.... most of these people have never set foot on the king, (or any of these other places), and talk about them like they have lifelong first hand experience with them. even with the sale of the 40-100 acre tracts on the YO, the main outside fence is still in place. the ranchettes are included within the boundary, so the ranch itself being 40K acres +/- is still essentially there. My problem with people getting on this canned hunt bandwagon, is that some people think 300 acres is canned, some people think 50 acres is canned..some people have no idea how many acres is canned. The anti hunters don't give a damn HOW many acres we hunt on. They don't like hunting, and they want it all to end. This is the same path as gun control. give them an inch, they will take a mile

April 21, 2009, 10:14 AM	#57
Mainah Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2007 Posts: 1,119	This issue has been in the news here in Maine recently, there was an effort to ban "canned" hunts that take place here. The owners of a couple of these outfits actually did a good job of defending themselves and the legislature dropped an attempt to ban this form of hunting. I wouldn't participate, but if the outfit is well run I don't find it any less ethical than raising stock for slaughter and sale.

April 21, 2009, 11:47 AM	#60
taz1 Member Join Date: March 10, 2009 Location: ohio Posts: 65	i still cant get over poor old fred. sounds like you got some real f-up friends. they probly dump their dogs and cats when their no longer small and cute too. as for fred a 1000 lb pig, you would need a gun to make him run, he would over heat and stroke out in less than 100yd.:barf: any one that saw a 9 ft. 1000 lb. pig and thought it was wild is a idot and im glad they are hunting in a enclosed area instead of the woods where i might be. i raised a lot of hogs growing up an old fred has my bs meter pegging out.

April 21, 2009, 11:54 AM	#61
orchidhunter Junior member Join Date: December 1, 2008 Posts: 320	Although hunting and wildlife issues have traditionally been regulated under the jurisdiction of the individual states, uniform, consistent, unambiguous federal legislation is needed to address the issues raised by “canned hunts.” This is vital for both the welfare protection of animals and the ethical hunting community. The inhumane treatment and ultimate death of animals involved in “canned hunts” can only be seen as intentional acts of animal cruelty and abuse. The damage this industry does to the legitimacy of hunting is immeasurable. The only purpose for this cruelty is economic gain for those who provide the animals or the opportunity to participate in this act. Without federal regulation, the killing of captive animals for profit will continue. orchidhunter

April 21, 2009, 01:45 PM	#66
kyle1974 Junior member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 254	How is it more inhumane for an animal to get shot in a 50 acre pen vs a non fenced area? dead is dead.... get over it, and STFU already.

April 21, 2009, 04:06 PM	#69
kyle1974 Junior member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 254	The only reason that "fred the pig" story is so "out there" is because of two reasons.. 1. the pig was friggen enormous. 2. a kid shot it. At the end of the day.... who cares, it was just a damn pig. they're essentially a pest.

April 21, 2009, 04:33 PM	#70
cat9x Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 212	If it wasn't for Texas ranches offering exotic hunts of Blackbuck, Scimitar Oryx, Aoudad, etc, these animals would all be but extinct (as they are nearly in their native countries). As far as canned hunts with no place to run or hide, I guess you've never been to Texas or set foot on a typical ranch. Many of our exotics are free ranging by the way.

April 21, 2009, 04:47 PM	#71
glockman55 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 179	The problem I have with pinned up wild game is when they spread disease to the wild heard outside the fence..

April 21, 2009, 05:43 PM	#72
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	One point I just remembered is that even on a small farm, there have been feral cattle caught by hog dogs and the land owner had no clue it was there... the time I am aware of was on a 1,000 acre farm/ranch that had much in pasture and the rest in tomatoes and citrus... Just a few little "bayheads" of swamps to hide in... Brent

April 21, 2009, 07:53 PM	#73
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	orchidhunter's idea about canned hunts is really just too foolish for knowledgeable people to give any credence to it. It's a very rare situation, and is already outlawed by most states. As instances are discovered, they also lead to elimination by law. Trying to bring the Feds into the deal is just another case of a solution looking for a problem. Enough of feeding a troll.