Closest shot of big game

[Keith Rogan]

"Hit and Run" poster.

Good replies though. You guys make me proud to be a hunter.




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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[Dagny]

Given the responses to my original post, I needed time to compose a considered response. Many objected to the word "unfair". Note that I had only reported what the bow/spear hunter had expressed AND I had said he "may be taking it too far".

As to "need", I did come of as lecturing when I wanted to establish the premise of the topic for discussion and avoid too much thread-drift. I was looking for accounts about feats of close and almost intimate or personal kills, rather than more stories of several hundred yard feats that are often heard in hunting forums, magazines and among hunters over beers which constitute "that peculiar American Bug that whispers in my ear, "Bigger caliber! Flatter trajectory!! More velocity! More energy!!" as Dogger put it.

Next: To those who assume I'm an anti-hunting animal rights activist, I HAVE killed deer (and groundhogs & other small game) at from over a hundred yards to a few yards). I've also chopped heads of chickens, cleaned, cooked and ate 'em (but nowadays eat grocery store chickens). The hardest of all my "kills" have been pet dogs.

Now back to the subject of this thread which has taken some twists in the debate between the need to conserve time and money and bring home meat or trophy as quickly as possible and the apparently rare freedom to take many weekends to learn the territory and habits of these animals and then a full day or a week to scout, track, stalk, kill and bring home one's quarry.

Perhaps I've sometimes had the fortune of more time to hunt than others have. But I understand the need to get out before dawn, get a deer, and get back in time to start work at 8am. Been there and done that with my dad - we needed both the meat and the income. A few days of lost pay cost as much as buying a deer's worth of grocery store meat.

Since then I've occasionally (and not often enough) had the freedom of time or money to not worry about whether I get a deer each year but rather focus on the challenge of stalking. As Lonestar said "When I'm 5-15 yards from a wild animal, I've beaten that animal whether I take him or not. Not the same at 100 yards." and I share Dogger's experience "The most exciting part of hunting is the stalk. If you don't get an animal -- no big deal -- I go home satisfied"

Compare this to a catch & release fly fisherman spending hours reading the stream and matching "flies" to hatches and the bait fisherman who is intent on bringing home the limit for the frying pan and freezer.

I've also experienced the challenge and joy of a successful long range shot which cleanly brings down an animal. Where this approach is more rewarding than just punching holes in paper is the delivery of sufficient impact, with the right bullet in the right place to bring down the animal.

But I still hold to the opinion that it can be, for some hunters, like a long range missile launch - complete with the technical considerations of load, range, wind and the use of high power scopes, range finders and even a laptop computer to calculate the ballistics. For that I can use a 600 yard target range.

Before we drift again to debates of right or wrong and long versus short range, could we come back to discussion of close range hunting? Maybe even some posts that are bragging about how close for a change rather than how far.

[Jack Straw]

Dagny,

I'm glad you revisited this topic and I'm glad to learn that you are in fact a hunter (I'd hate to have to think of you as a "thug" ).

Since I'm the one that really seems to have taken this away from your intended conversation, I'd be glad to be the first to bring it back. My favorite "up close and personal" hunts are from spring turkey season here in Georgia. I didn't get a tom this spring but several times I did have hens close enough that I could almost club them with my shotgun barrel. My first tom was taken at about 15 steps. Having that bird to gobble and strut at that range was simply exhilirating!

I hate to hear about the dogs. My girlfriend just doesn't understand how I can hunt and yet be such a softhearted weenie when it comes to the pets.

Jack

[BadMedicine]

Yeah, Deer have rights. So do dandelions, they have the right not to be stepped on. But do I do it? yeah. Because the dandelion didn't fight for his right and let me know how much he didn't want stepped on. Everything have rights but it's up to them to look out for them and protect them. The british didn't look out for our rights, we had to fight for them. We fight for our rights everytime we elect a government official. Nobody will look out for our rights but ourselves. And if the deer don't protect his rights by hiding better or running further/faster, I'm gonna shoot 'im.
As far as high tech weapons, we have every right to use them.
When god created the earth all the animals were up in heaven getting ready for life on earth. He gave the deer long swift legs, he gave the bear muscle and teeth, He gave the big cats sharp wicked claws, he gave then dall sheep super eye sight, Dogs a great nose, and others great hearing. He got to us and all the big sharp claws were gone, The best eyes had been used, as well as the big pointed ears that worked so well. So he gave us a brain. He said "it don't look like much, and it'll take you a few thousand years to get good at using it, but it's the best I have." So we took it. At first the lions and bears and packs of wild dogs had a smorgas board. We ran around with nothing to protect us. We lived in caves and climbed trees and they laughed at us. But whos laughing now? I am. Everytime I drop a coyote or fox from 300 yrds, where he couldn't see, smell, or hear me. Our brains are the only weapon we have, So by all means, Use 'em.

[Dagny]

Jack, thanks for readdressing the topic and trying to bring it back to the intended subject.

BadMedicine, let's not make this thread deteriorate into a quasi-religious/political discussion on "rights". I could respond to it in another thread but here I'd rather read of gobblers at 15 paces or moose at 5 paces (a coworker of mine did that - by sheer luck stumbling upon it. Dang near scared him to death first!

[Jack Straw]

Dagny

I meant to ask: is "Dagny" a tribute to a certain Ms. Taggart?(or am I way off base again?)

Jack

[Dagny]

So become a mercenary sniper and hunt the most challenging game on the planet. Let's take this "rights" argument to a new thread and reserve this one for jumping a bull elk from a tree stand and shooting him in the head with your .44 as you ride through the trees (now if that is not up close and personal...

Okay, I'm joking with that last example, but who knows, somebody might have done it.

[This message has been edited by Dagny (edited August 15, 2000).]

[Dagny]

Jack,
Yep, it is a tribute to Dagny Taggart.
(for those who know not of what we speak
read ATLAS SHRUGGED by Ayn Rand - you'll soon wish you had read it back in high school)

[Art Eatman]

Dagny: Looking back at your original post and thinking on it some more, there are a couple of points that oughta be brought out.

Most folks, nowadays, are city guys. I've been amazed at how much I take for granted about the outdoors and hunting that is a total mystery to city folks. Inherent in our culture is a love of gadgetry, and in typical U.S. fashion, gadgetry has come about to aid the hunter.

The attraction of the magnum rifles is the flat-shooting characteristic which makes the ability to estimate range very accurately less of a problem. For instance, assume an elk is across a canyon, and you can't get any closer than 400 yards in a stalk. You don't really know if it's 350 or 450 yards. Iron sights on a .30-30 or such, and you might not eat elk. A scope on a 7 Maggie, and your tummie's full.

Some guys just can't stalk! Hell, they can't even walk in rough country without taking a tumble! But they want to hunt, just as much as I do...

For me, then, the first and over-riding priority in the whole hunting deal is that no animal suffer needlessly. That's part of why I'm over-gunned, generally. That's why I use a scope.

But close range is a lot more fun, when I'm out walking and stalking.

The closest I ever got to any wild critter was one morning on a deer hunt. I sat down and leaned against a tree, trying to imitate a stump. After a while I saw some movement and then recognized a fox. Maybe ten, fifteen yards off. I squeaked like a mouse, and he came toward me. I kept working on him until he got real close. He finally figured out that my boot was a Strange Thing, and sniffed at it. His reaction when I tapped him on the nose was, shall we say, "Cartoon-like". His hair bristled like an electric shock had hit him; he turned inside out and left rapidly through his own fundament...No way would I have wanted to shoot him! But a lot of guys couldn't sit still enough or know how to squeak--or even that a little squeak would do ya!

From around Uvalde, Texas, on west to around Sierra Blanca, the "real" bucks--whitetail or muley--tend to bed down on the downwind military crest of a ridge, near a saddle. If you don't know this, you'll walk yourself two inches shorter trying to find Ol' Bucky. But how many city guys have any way to find out? So instead of being able to get close enough to use a bow or pistol, they are commonly faced with a need for a "reach out there" rifle...

Ideally, what happens is that guys gain experience through the years and actually learn. Little by little, they get away from "I gotta kill something" to an attitude of taking pride in the skills they develop--stalking, understanding game's behavior, etc.--and begin to leave the gadgets in camp.

I'm getting into that final stage of trying to pass along what I've learned. I have more fun taking somebody out, trying to find and catch some critter than actually finding something for me. That's part of why I hang out at TFL...

Best regards,

Art

[Paul B.]

Well Dagny, I've lurked in this thread long enough. I saw some interesting points, some of which I agree with, and some with which I do not. I won't go into them, unless asked.
Close encounters of the game kind. I can think of three, offhand, maybe a few more. I like to sneak up on them until I can see the whites of their eyes.
One time, while on a stand, with my ex-brother in law, A doe came out onto the meadow we were watching. My other hunting partner came over and bet me $100 I could not get close enough to slap her on the butt. I told him he was right, but that I could get at least within 20 feet of her. He took it, and I did it. I got to withinn 5 or 6 feet of that doe before she even knew I was there. When she took off, it was so funny that our laughing ruined that stand for the rest of the day. Deer was a California Blacktail.
While on a stand in Nevada, with my (at that time)10 year old stepson, a flock of Chukar Partridge came feeding up the slope. They came so close, that we could have each grabbed two birds apiece, if we wanted to. It would have been perfectly legal as they were in season. It was just to darn much fun watching them. Finally one got downwind of us and they took off.
The last was also in Nevada, in an area where does were legal. I was hunting with a neighbor who'd never hunted the West before, and was showing him the ropes, more or less.
He spooked a doe which came running by me so damn fast, and so close, that I thought I would be run over. I stepped back and shot one handed at the deer as she went by me. The rifle, a Mannlicher stocked Remington 660 was so close to the deer that the muzzle blast scorched the hair on her side, and she dropped like a rock. The entrance wound showed signs of the effects of the muzzle blast as well.
Most of the deer I have killed have been under 100 yards and I have only two shots that I can remember that were farther out. One at 250 yards (estimated) and the other at 427 paces, over fairly level terrain. (I'd guess probably 350 yards, or so) Both shots were made with rifles in .308 Win. (No wonder I like the .308 so much. It's never let me down.)
Paul B.

[crow slayer]

Paul
My dad had the same thing happen to him with and 8 point buck and a 12 gauge. My closest deer I killed was 15 yards. Closest coyote was 12 feet when I snook in behind me.
Closest crow was at maybe 15 feet and I missed it!
CS

[Art Eatman]

Ever fall asleep while sittin'-huntin'? I do this halfway regularly. Old farts need naps, I guess...

Anyhow, I was awakened from such a nap one time by the strangest darned sound! I was surrounded by soft "peep" sort of chirpy noises. Couldn't see anything in the knee-high grass. Finally got a glimpse and then a good view: Quail! Several coveys had come together, and there must have been well over 50 or 60, feeding all around me.

Javelina will bed down in the middle of the day, and it's easy to walk in among them before somebody wakes up and yells, "Boogers!" Since they all head out in the same direction, and you're in the middle of 20 or 30, somebody inevitably will aim for the gap between your ankles. I guess that's what leads to "I was charged by the deadly javelina!" stories.

Javelinas are fun folks to mess with. If you're quiet, and downwind of them, you can ease to within a very few feet and not be noticed. I've picked up baby piggies; they squeal, the bunch runs, and momma pops her jaws and gets real upset. Put down piggy, and he and momma hightail it for safety.

, Art

[Al Thompson]

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