Sniping pigeons

BadMedicine · August 30, 2000, 12:37 AM

Me and my brother have found a really fun new pastime...Don't laugh...sniping pigeons!!! We both have crossman pump up air rifles, that are relatively quite, and shoot .177 BB's or pellets, with I think 1x9 scopes. We've been shooting them downaround the industrial part of town. Around the railroad tracks they eat grain that's fallen off the trains, and are going to the feed & seed store. We ussually just sit in the cover of the trees and pop them off the wire, or roof of the building. How many here have ever eaten pigeon? They taste just like dove (same family) and are about 2-3 times bigger. We've only gone twice, got 4 a few days ago and 3 today. Shots are 20-30 yrds head/neck. The way I see it, we're curving the population, cutting down on city pests, having fun and putting "city-dove" on the table. Trust me, it's more exciting then it probably sounds, And there're many different flocks around the city

August 30, 2000, 09:46 AM

Ornithosis

Causes and Clinical Signs

Ornithosis is due to a micro-organism called Clamydia. It is susceptible to antibiotics like bacteria but lives within and destroys body cells like a virus.
Clinical signs vary from poor performance to an acute disease causing a marked conjunctivitis, decreased appetite, respiratory disease, diarrhoea and death.
The acute form is particularly prevalent in young birds and older birds under stress. In some cases the conjunctivitis can lead to secondary bacteria infection of the eye resulting in blindness. Recovered birds are likely to carry the disease and subsequently spread it to other pigeons.

Diagnosis

Diagnosis of this disease in the live bird is difficult and must rely heavily on the clinical symptoms present. Blood tests will identify birds that have been exposed to the organism but are not a good indication of the present disease status.
Where dead birds are available, samples from the liver or spleen can give a positive diagnosis in the laboratory. The disease needs to be distinguished from Mycoplasma infection, Haemophylus infection and “One Eyed Cold”.

NOTE

There is a very real danger of this infection being transmitted to man. Pigeon fanciers who suffer from a prolonged flu-like disease are recommended to consult their doctor who should be aware of their contact with pigeons. Where cases are diagnosed in pigeons the Ministry of Agriculture must be informed.

Treatment

Due to the danger of human infection, the risk to young birds and the fact that chronically infected birds are more prone to other diseases, the treatment of affected birds with Chlortetracycline for an adequate period is essential. Treatment lengths of 30 to 60 days would be recommended. The use of multi vitamin may also be advised.

Prevention

No specific measures are available to prevent the condition. Try to maintain birds in good bodily condition and make sure the loft is regularly cleaned and disinfected. If the disease is suspected veterinary advice should be sought.

BadMedicine · August 30, 2000, 02:48 PM

I just looked at the scope on my air-rifle, it's not a 1x9 it's a 4x15. oops. Thanks for the word of caution kilgor.

Robert the41MagFan · August 30, 2000, 05:14 PM

Only problem I find with sniping pigeons is getting them off the neighbors roof. Not that I would do such a thing. You know, theoretically.

Robert

August 30, 2000, 07:02 PM

Ornithosis- i.e. human psittacosis is an infection by Chlamydia psittaci. If is contracted through inhalation of repiratory secretions or dust from the droppings of infected birds.

You do not get it by eating birds. Chlamydia is destroyed with heat(cooking).

Do not snort the poo and you'll be fine.

Regards,

Olazul

[This message has been edited by olazul (edited August 30, 2000).]

BadMedicine · August 30, 2000, 08:15 PM

Good thing you said somthing, I was planning on doing a little "poo-snorting" after supper.

August 30, 2000, 08:31 PM

That is the method by which it is normally acquired true. However it can also be picked up from cleaning a bird with cuts on your hands, not washing your hands properly after cleaning it, and under cooking infected meat. It does not produce toxins so if you handle it properly and cook the meat to the proper internal temperature then you should be fine.

Sorry if I mislead as to how the disease is contracted.

Art Eatman · August 30, 2000, 09:05 PM

And then there is the "Silent Death" method of hunting pigeons.

Get a piece of 1/2" OD aluminum tubing. Get some automotive upholstery needles; they're stainless steel, about 3-1/2" to 4" long, with a ring on the end. Get some balsa wood, and make 1/2" round-nosed cones which will just fit into the tube.

They're good to around 15 yards, and amazingly accurate. At ten yards, you should be able to stack them. Marginal for squirrels, though.

Overpasses with light traffic loads are prime habitat for pigeons, at night...

, Art

BadMedicine · August 30, 2000, 10:10 PM

You're good art, but I live blowguns, I began with slurpie straws and toothpicks, with a piece of yarn taped to the end, then I progressed.
Take a 1/2 inch thick piece of PVC pipe, plastic, 3 to 4 feet long. Buy some bailing wire from any feed store and cut those anywhere from 1 1/2" to 4". The shorter ones are more accurate out further, but not as good for "large game" such as cottain tails. Take heavey 3x5 index cards and cut circles out of the middle, you should only get about 1 circle per card, almost two, but then the circles would be too small. Cut a slice halfway into the circle (radius) and form a cone. Push the bailing wire piece through the cone and tape around it about 5 times with ordinary scotch tape. Use a lighter to melt the tape to the bailing wire (rough it with a file to make the tape stick better.) File point to desired deadliness

the biggest thing I've ever shot was a cottaintail through the neck. Never got pigeons this way, but one or two doves have met this method.
A word of caution, blowgun darts are to feet, as metal is to magnets. And your mom who is gardening barefoot WILL ground you if she finds one!!

[This message has been edited by BadMedicine (edited August 31, 2000).]

Calif Hunter · August 31, 2000, 12:11 PM

This is slightly off-topic, as it's not about pigeons. I had some crows that were really creating a nuisance and making a mess out of my fruit trees. (I live in a regular suburban house with a 1/4 acre lot.) So I got my Crosman pump-up pellet rifle and thought I would just sting them a little. Somehow, I thought that 5 pumps was the minimum. I shot a crow at the top of a tree on my lot line from my back porch, and the sucker fell, dead as a stone, right into my neighbor's pool. He has two Golden Retrievers.... I never did tell him that I shot the crow. (It turns out that TWO was the minimum number of pumps. It's illegal here to shoot crows unless they are in season and you turn them in to the local postmaster(!) or you get a depredation permit from F&G.)

[This message has been edited by Calif Hunter (edited August 31, 2000).]

August 31, 2000, 06:03 PM

Postmaster?

Dave R · August 31, 2000, 06:30 PM

This it too much fun! My views on the sport of hunting have been expanded considerably--blow guns, air guns, urban prey with dove-like flavor and AIDS-like danger...

Art Eatman · August 31, 2000, 11:18 PM

Dave R: Only if restrained by idjits can American ingenuity not win wars or bug Liberals.

Well, come to think of it, nothing can keep our ingenuity from bugging Liberals.

, Art

Jeff Thomas · September 1, 2000, 02:45 AM

And, in our next show, we'll take a look at the pleasures of urban bunny stew ....

Regards from AZ

September 1, 2000, 08:55 AM

POSTMASTER??????!!!!!!!!

Art Eatman · September 1, 2000, 10:13 AM

KilgorII, crows are protected by International Treaty. We signed onto the thing without our wondrous Gummint folks realizing the Latin name for the crow family (Corvus ?) included our own winged pestiferous problem. (Migratory species stuff, as with doves.)

Somehow, it has been wangled that they can be killed if they are hurting crops. I've never heard of any reporting to anybody about this, however.

But like you, "Postmaster?"

Calif Hunter: "Come back, Little Sheba!" (We found your leash...) Elucidate!

, Art

Calif Hunter · September 1, 2000, 10:56 AM

Okay, Art, I got yor email. I've gone through the California reg briefly this morning. They can be found at www.dfg.ca.gov and I wasn't able to see the spot where they say that crows can (should?) be turned in to the post office. Section 472(d) says that landowners or their tenants authorized in writing by the landowner can take crows when they are committing or about to commit depredations on ornamental or shade trees, crops or livestock or if they constitute a health threat. It does say that you have to get a Federal bird depredation permit "if required by Federal Regulations." Section 485 gives the methods allowed ( no air rifles! OOOPPPPS!) Sectioon 485(c) states that you must make a reasonable effort to retrieve the crow (my neighbor's Golden Retrievers took care of that!) and retain it in your custody between place taken and your means of transportation, your place of abode, a migratory bird preservation facility or A POST OFFICE. I definitely remember seeing where it said (somewhere, either state or federal regs) that a post office qualified as a Federal facility where you could turn in crow carcasses. I thought that was hilarious...I could just see me bringing a sack of dead crows into the local SoCal post office! Sorry I don't have time right now to read through the volumes of regs in this state and/or the Federal regs...it may be under the regs for a Federal depredation permit that says that you may turn them in to the post office. But the California regs (Section 485) defintely state that you must retain them between the place taken and a migratory bird preservation facility (whatever that is) or a post office!

[This message has been edited by Calif Hunter (edited September 01, 2000).]

Art Eatman · September 1, 2000, 04:28 PM

I've been chortling, snickering and giggling all afternoon, imagining the facial expressions on USPS folks' faces if I brought in a gunny-sack full of crows--a week or so after they'd been shot.

"Well, ma'am, the law sez ya gotta ship 'em to the Office of the Director, USF&WS, in Washington, D.C."

I'll stop, now.

, Art

BadMedicine · September 1, 2000, 04:33 PM

Up here in AK(no, not arkansas

) You can shoot 10 a day. But you have to either keep the feathers, for clothing, or the meat. Mostly around anchorage where I live there are very few crow, just ravens (those are a No-No!) I think they let you shoot them (the crows)cuz the natives really do make dance ornaments out of them.

[This message has been edited by BadMedicine (edited September 01, 2000).]

Johnny Guest · September 2, 2000, 02:28 PM

This is priceless--

I thought pigeons were as safe as dove--just don't let the fanciers and racers catch you assissinating their prize birdies!

And, for some reason, I thought a .22 or a shotgun were the preferred means of taking. I'm learning all sorts of new stuff here. Oh, I am TOLD--no personal knowledge, understand--that a 5 mm Sheridan pellet rifle has too much penetration to shot pigeons in your friend's aircraft hanger.

Blowguns? My son used to live in an old rent house in west, uh, which city? and would harvest squirrels with one. He made a bad shot one time, and there was a big boar bushytail with a bright piece of plastic- tipped music wire running around the back yards for weeks thereafter. Didn't seem to slow him down any.

I don't THINK the treehuggers next door ever caught the lad (he would never 'fess up to it), but he was high on their list of suspects.

Johnny

------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---

[This message has been edited by Johnny Guest (edited September 02, 2000).]

August 30, 2000, 12:37 AM	#1
BadMedicine Junior member Join Date: July 7, 2000 Location: Anchorage Posts: 863	Me and my brother have found a really fun new pastime...Don't laugh...sniping pigeons!!! We both have crossman pump up air rifles, that are relatively quite, and shoot .177 BB's or pellets, with I think 1x9 scopes. We've been shooting them downaround the industrial part of town. Around the railroad tracks they eat grain that's fallen off the trains, and are going to the feed & seed store. We ussually just sit in the cover of the trees and pop them off the wire, or roof of the building. How many here have ever eaten pigeon? They taste just like dove (same family) and are about 2-3 times bigger. We've only gone twice, got 4 a few days ago and 3 today. Shots are 20-30 yrds head/neck. The way I see it, we're curving the population, cutting down on city pests, having fun and putting "city-dove" on the table. Trust me, it's more exciting then it probably sounds, And there're many different flocks around the city

August 30, 2000, 09:46 AM	#2
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	Ornithosis Causes and Clinical Signs Ornithosis is due to a micro-organism called Clamydia. It is susceptible to antibiotics like bacteria but lives within and destroys body cells like a virus. Clinical signs vary from poor performance to an acute disease causing a marked conjunctivitis, decreased appetite, respiratory disease, diarrhoea and death. The acute form is particularly prevalent in young birds and older birds under stress. In some cases the conjunctivitis can lead to secondary bacteria infection of the eye resulting in blindness. Recovered birds are likely to carry the disease and subsequently spread it to other pigeons. Diagnosis Diagnosis of this disease in the live bird is difficult and must rely heavily on the clinical symptoms present. Blood tests will identify birds that have been exposed to the organism but are not a good indication of the present disease status. Where dead birds are available, samples from the liver or spleen can give a positive diagnosis in the laboratory. The disease needs to be distinguished from Mycoplasma infection, Haemophylus infection and “One Eyed Cold”. NOTE There is a very real danger of this infection being transmitted to man. Pigeon fanciers who suffer from a prolonged flu-like disease are recommended to consult their doctor who should be aware of their contact with pigeons. Where cases are diagnosed in pigeons the Ministry of Agriculture must be informed. Treatment Due to the danger of human infection, the risk to young birds and the fact that chronically infected birds are more prone to other diseases, the treatment of affected birds with Chlortetracycline for an adequate period is essential. Treatment lengths of 30 to 60 days would be recommended. The use of multi vitamin may also be advised. Prevention No specific measures are available to prevent the condition. Try to maintain birds in good bodily condition and make sure the loft is regularly cleaned and disinfected. If the disease is suspected veterinary advice should be sought.

August 30, 2000, 02:48 PM	#3
BadMedicine Junior member Join Date: July 7, 2000 Location: Anchorage Posts: 863	I just looked at the scope on my air-rifle, it's not a 1x9 it's a 4x15. oops. Thanks for the word of caution kilgor.

August 30, 2000, 05:14 PM	#4
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	Only problem I find with sniping pigeons is getting them off the neighbors roof. Not that I would do such a thing. You know, theoretically. Robert

August 30, 2000, 07:02 PM	#5
olazul Guest Posts: n/a	Ornithosis- i.e. human psittacosis is an infection by Chlamydia psittaci. If is contracted through inhalation of repiratory secretions or dust from the droppings of infected birds. You do not get it by eating birds. Chlamydia is destroyed with heat(cooking). Do not snort the poo and you'll be fine. Regards, Olazul [This message has been edited by olazul (edited August 30, 2000).]

August 30, 2000, 08:15 PM	#6
BadMedicine Junior member Join Date: July 7, 2000 Location: Anchorage Posts: 863	Good thing you said somthing, I was planning on doing a little "poo-snorting" after supper.

August 30, 2000, 08:31 PM	#7
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	That is the method by which it is normally acquired true. However it can also be picked up from cleaning a bird with cuts on your hands, not washing your hands properly after cleaning it, and under cooking infected meat. It does not produce toxins so if you handle it properly and cook the meat to the proper internal temperature then you should be fine. Sorry if I mislead as to how the disease is contracted.

August 30, 2000, 09:05 PM	#8
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	And then there is the "Silent Death" method of hunting pigeons. Get a piece of 1/2" OD aluminum tubing. Get some automotive upholstery needles; they're stainless steel, about 3-1/2" to 4" long, with a ring on the end. Get some balsa wood, and make 1/2" round-nosed cones which will just fit into the tube. They're good to around 15 yards, and amazingly accurate. At ten yards, you should be able to stack them. Marginal for squirrels, though. Overpasses with light traffic loads are prime habitat for pigeons, at night... , Art

August 30, 2000, 10:10 PM	#9
BadMedicine Junior member Join Date: July 7, 2000 Location: Anchorage Posts: 863	You're good art, but I live blowguns, I began with slurpie straws and toothpicks, with a piece of yarn taped to the end, then I progressed. Take a 1/2 inch thick piece of PVC pipe, plastic, 3 to 4 feet long. Buy some bailing wire from any feed store and cut those anywhere from 1 1/2" to 4". The shorter ones are more accurate out further, but not as good for "large game" such as cottain tails. Take heavey 3x5 index cards and cut circles out of the middle, you should only get about 1 circle per card, almost two, but then the circles would be too small. Cut a slice halfway into the circle (radius) and form a cone. Push the bailing wire piece through the cone and tape around it about 5 times with ordinary scotch tape. Use a lighter to melt the tape to the bailing wire (rough it with a file to make the tape stick better.) File point to desired deadliness the biggest thing I've ever shot was a cottaintail through the neck. Never got pigeons this way, but one or two doves have met this method. A word of caution, blowgun darts are to feet, as metal is to magnets. And your mom who is gardening barefoot WILL ground you if she finds one!! [This message has been edited by BadMedicine (edited August 31, 2000).]

August 31, 2000, 12:11 PM	#10
Calif Hunter Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2000 Location: La Palma, CA, USA Posts: 165	This is slightly off-topic, as it's not about pigeons. I had some crows that were really creating a nuisance and making a mess out of my fruit trees. (I live in a regular suburban house with a 1/4 acre lot.) So I got my Crosman pump-up pellet rifle and thought I would just sting them a little. Somehow, I thought that 5 pumps was the minimum. I shot a crow at the top of a tree on my lot line from my back porch, and the sucker fell, dead as a stone, right into my neighbor's pool. He has two Golden Retrievers.... I never did tell him that I shot the crow. (It turns out that TWO was the minimum number of pumps. It's illegal here to shoot crows unless they are in season and you turn them in to the local postmaster(!) or you get a depredation permit from F&G.) [This message has been edited by Calif Hunter (edited August 31, 2000).]

August 31, 2000, 06:03 PM	#11
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	Postmaster?

August 31, 2000, 06:30 PM	#12
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	This it too much fun! My views on the sport of hunting have been expanded considerably--blow guns, air guns, urban prey with dove-like flavor and AIDS-like danger...

August 31, 2000, 11:18 PM	#13
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Dave R: Only if restrained by idjits can American ingenuity not win wars or bug Liberals. Well, come to think of it, nothing can keep our ingenuity from bugging Liberals. , Art

September 1, 2000, 02:45 AM	#14
Jeff Thomas Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1998 Location: Texas Posts: 4,753	And, in our next show, we'll take a look at the pleasures of urban bunny stew .... Regards from AZ

September 1, 2000, 08:55 AM	#15
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	POSTMASTER??????!!!!!!!!

September 1, 2000, 10:13 AM	#16
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	KilgorII, crows are protected by International Treaty. We signed onto the thing without our wondrous Gummint folks realizing the Latin name for the crow family (Corvus ?) included our own winged pestiferous problem. (Migratory species stuff, as with doves.) Somehow, it has been wangled that they can be killed if they are hurting crops. I've never heard of any reporting to anybody about this, however. But like you, "Postmaster?" Calif Hunter: "Come back, Little Sheba!" (We found your leash...) Elucidate! , Art

September 1, 2000, 10:56 AM	#17
Calif Hunter Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2000 Location: La Palma, CA, USA Posts: 165	Okay, Art, I got yor email. I've gone through the California reg briefly this morning. They can be found at www.dfg.ca.gov and I wasn't able to see the spot where they say that crows can (should?) be turned in to the post office. Section 472(d) says that landowners or their tenants authorized in writing by the landowner can take crows when they are committing or about to commit depredations on ornamental or shade trees, crops or livestock or if they constitute a health threat. It does say that you have to get a Federal bird depredation permit "if required by Federal Regulations." Section 485 gives the methods allowed ( no air rifles! OOOPPPPS!) Sectioon 485(c) states that you must make a reasonable effort to retrieve the crow (my neighbor's Golden Retrievers took care of that!) and retain it in your custody between place taken and your means of transportation, your place of abode, a migratory bird preservation facility or A POST OFFICE. I definitely remember seeing where it said (somewhere, either state or federal regs) that a post office qualified as a Federal facility where you could turn in crow carcasses. I thought that was hilarious...I could just see me bringing a sack of dead crows into the local SoCal post office! Sorry I don't have time right now to read through the volumes of regs in this state and/or the Federal regs...it may be under the regs for a Federal depredation permit that says that you may turn them in to the post office. But the California regs (Section 485) defintely state that you must retain them between the place taken and a migratory bird preservation facility (whatever that is) or a post office! [This message has been edited by Calif Hunter (edited September 01, 2000).]

September 1, 2000, 04:28 PM	#18
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I've been chortling, snickering and giggling all afternoon, imagining the facial expressions on USPS folks' faces if I brought in a gunny-sack full of crows--a week or so after they'd been shot. "Well, ma'am, the law sez ya gotta ship 'em to the Office of the Director, USF&WS, in Washington, D.C." I'll stop, now. , Art

September 1, 2000, 04:33 PM	#19
BadMedicine Junior member Join Date: July 7, 2000 Location: Anchorage Posts: 863	Up here in AK(no, not arkansas ) You can shoot 10 a day. But you have to either keep the feathers, for clothing, or the meat. Mostly around anchorage where I live there are very few crow, just ravens (those are a No-No!) I think they let you shoot them (the crows)cuz the natives really do make dance ornaments out of them. [This message has been edited by BadMedicine (edited September 01, 2000).]

September 2, 2000, 02:28 PM	#20
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	This is priceless-- I thought pigeons were as safe as dove--just don't let the fanciers and racers catch you assissinating their prize birdies! And, for some reason, I thought a .22 or a shotgun were the preferred means of taking. I'm learning all sorts of new stuff here. Oh, I am TOLD--no personal knowledge, understand--that a 5 mm Sheridan pellet rifle has too much penetration to shot pigeons in your friend's aircraft hanger. Blowguns? My son used to live in an old rent house in west, uh, which city? and would harvest squirrels with one. He made a bad shot one time, and there was a big boar bushytail with a bright piece of plastic- tipped music wire running around the back yards for weeks thereafter. Didn't seem to slow him down any. I don't THINK the treehuggers next door ever caught the lad (he would never 'fess up to it), but he was high on their list of suspects. Johnny ------------------ ---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights--- [This message has been edited by Johnny Guest (edited September 02, 2000).]