July 11, 2011, 07:03 PM | #576 |
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What! Operation Castaway... Honduras.... Guns to MS-13?
Field Offices at Tampa? Houston? and Phoenix? involved in a national program? Somebody has lost their mind at the ATF. http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...ns-to-honduras http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...k-guns-to.html
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July 11, 2011, 07:59 PM | #577 |
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Nobody's lost their minds as far as I can see. They are just doing what any anti-gun ideologue would do if told he/she is free to do pretty much as he/she chooses and that, far from facing prosecution for criminal misconduct, will receive promotions for it. It all makes sense if you get your mind around the concept that DOJ and BATFE feel they are entirely immune from any negative consequences that might arise from criminal, anticonstitutional conduct.
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July 11, 2011, 08:09 PM | #578 |
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...border-states/
It is starting again. Why "watch" buyers when they already let 10's of thousands of guns walk? What is the point? |
July 11, 2011, 10:21 PM | #579 | |
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Melson has already said DOJ is obstructing, not just stonewalling. It'll be interesting to see if his July 13 "public appearance" statements are toned down or if DOJ tries to hold him back from repeating that. In any case, Issa has enough to move for contempt charges against Holder and DOJ. If DOJ refuses to let Congress use an independent special prosecutor to investigate it'll look even more like obstruction and stonewalling. That'll be fodder during the elections. Especially if Mexico ups the ante by screaming for a full-scale investigation. The lid is coming off as evidenced by the Honduras angle. This negates any chance of this being "localized" to Phoenix, which in turn implicates much higher pay-grades to approve a national program that works with multiple international tentacles. The implication is that it involves State, DHS via Customs and perhaps the USCG along with the FBI. The Tampa-Honduras program netted a "big fish" in September 2010, so it seems unlikely Holder and/or Asst. A.G. Lanny Breuer can claim "ignorance" of the program or its methods. Especially in light of their attempt to garner lots of media attention on it. There are too many leaks in the ship to keep trying to tow it to shallower 2012 waters. There's the risk of an unseen torpedo from another whistleblower or another high-profile shooting with a Fast & Furious gun on our side of the border.
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July 11, 2011, 10:31 PM | #580 | |
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July 11, 2011, 11:15 PM | #581 |
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I don't understand how the BATFE can just arbitrarily tell gun shops that they have to report people who purchase more than 2 rifles in a 5 day period.
I'm not necesarily against the law but in any other business the governement can't just do that. The police can't go to a car dealership and say - "You have to start reporting anyone who purchases more than 2 vehicles in 5 days." Doesn't there have to be a law regarding that? Also, how can they impose that on gun stores? The gun stores are supossed to do what? - eye-ball their paperwork every day at the close of business and try to match names with the preceeding 5 days? I don't know what the profit on these weapons are but it would seem to be a relatively simple thing to do to just move 1 state north to make the purchases. This seems to me to be an effort on the part of the BATFE to divert attention away from Fast and Furious and make it look like they're actually trying to track down criminals and not trying to bolster statistics for stricter gun control. I totally don't understand this. BATFE has the power to make gun stores do this stuff with no law - no regulation? |
July 11, 2011, 11:23 PM | #582 |
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Firearms are unique when it comes to governmental restraint of trade. Don't expect to see any anti-trust suits being hoisted anytime soon.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
July 12, 2011, 01:00 AM | #583 | ||
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The form itself is a hassle, and it has to be mailed to the local sheriff as well. Of all the multiple handgun sale reports filed, very few of them are for anything suspicious. Anyone who knows about the law can simply spread their purchases out over multiple stores or a longer timeframe.
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July 12, 2011, 01:45 AM | #584 | |
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The NRA has stated they will sue if these new rules are imposed on firrearms dealers.
SOURCE Quote:
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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July 12, 2011, 05:37 AM | #585 |
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Holder bragged about Operation Gunrunner in 2009
From the Washington Examiner Yesterday:
"The problem with Holder’s feigned ignorance is that he gave a speech in Cuernavaca, Mexico, on April 2, 2009, in which he boasted about Operation 'Gunrunner” and told Mexican authorities of everything he was doing to insure its success." http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...gunrunner-2009
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July 12, 2011, 06:15 AM | #586 | |||
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Yes...they are going to get away with it, and there's nothing anyone can do about it if the WH and DOJ choose to continue stonewalling and obstructing and are willing to absorb what limited heat might arise from the media. None of this is going to affect the support for the WH amongst its political base. |
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July 12, 2011, 06:39 AM | #587 |
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It seems like a potential PR hey day for BATFE if the NRA sues them over the request to report multiple weapons purchases, but I'm not sure BATFE is adept enough to take advantage of it. If they're as incompetent in the PR department as they are in other areas then they might not be able to take advantage of it. On the other hand, there are other groups that can make NRA look obstructionist and anti-law enforcement.
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July 12, 2011, 07:18 AM | #588 | |
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And we need to be careful about confusing knowledge of Gunrunner with knowledge of gun walking. Gunrunner has been a program since 2006 and Fast and Furious was one of many of a subset of Gunwalker programs. As for the NRA suing them, clearly the Administration wanted and expected that since the NRA had already informed them they would challenge the multiple sales requirement. The Administration appears to think this will help their narrative, though how they could think that I can't imagine. |
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July 12, 2011, 07:39 AM | #589 | |
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Or is this too a moot point anymore? Should said "petition" be ignored, then could one safely say/assume the COTUS and/or BORs is dead and tyranny has taken hold with this administration; whether the tyranny thing is true or not the 1st Amendment, being blatently ignored might gather some media attention once they see their Ox being gored as not good for their business? (I think that started out as a question). Trashing both the 1st and the 2nd... should that occur... I obviously dunno, just asking myself how close this nation is to that point. |
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July 12, 2011, 08:33 AM | #590 |
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I see that AOL.com has put the Foxnews story about Agent Terry's kin getting set to sue the .gov on their front page this AM.
I hope they do. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/11...1_lnk3%7C77301 |
July 12, 2011, 08:39 AM | #591 |
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Bartholomew,
Impeachment is NOT a criminal proceeding. It is only a means of booting people from elective or appointed office and carries no further sanction than that. Further, it requires not just an impeachment vote in the House but a vote to convict in a Senate controlled by the WH's own party. It's a nonstarter and won't dissuade this administration in the slightest. The fact remains that there is absolutely no prosecutorial impediment to the WH and DOJ doing exactly what they want to do, laws be damned. There is no credible penalty they need worry about - and they know it, and are operating under that implicit understanding. Last edited by csmsss; July 12, 2011 at 08:47 AM. |
July 12, 2011, 09:00 AM | #592 |
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Just in case you were looking for some light reading on the issue...
michellemalkin.com/2011/07/12/dojs-fast-and-furious-head-fake/ Michelle Making wrote a pretty good article on the current state of things. |
July 12, 2011, 09:49 AM | #593 | ||||
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July 12, 2011, 10:56 AM | #594 |
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Feds to face lawsuit for fast & furious?
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July 12, 2011, 01:28 PM | #595 |
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It will be interesting to see if Calderon gets on his pony and rides after anybody to hold them accountable. He and Obama are fellow travelers and he will have to consider the wishes of whichever cartel has paid him off to hassle their competition.
This thing could be a major dump on Obama if offering up Holder's head isn't done the right way. I dunno that Calderon wants to see that. Our porous border is very important to Calderon to help him avoid addressing economic opportunity and social problems in Mexico, among other things. And as for Obama talking about his "under the radar" gun control efforts, I don't think he is bright enough to keep his mouth shut about a covert gun walking op, too good a story as it makes him sound like a secret agent man. He is worried, methinks, about his clear failures to deliver and lead. He will do anything to promote himself, even make hints about stuff that needs to be kept real quiet. If F+F had worked as the savants predicted, the victory laps would be endless, as would be his claims to authorship.
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July 12, 2011, 07:30 PM | #596 | ||||
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July 12, 2011, 07:47 PM | #597 |
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Ok, we disagree then.
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July 12, 2011, 08:02 PM | #598 |
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Yep. Funny thing is I'm pretty sure we're in fundamental agreement about the illegality of all of this.
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July 12, 2011, 09:12 PM | #599 | |
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July 12, 2011, 09:16 PM | #600 |
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Since this was an international crime, couldn't Interpol be pulled in? Interesting premise if it could work.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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atf , fast and furious |
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