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June 27, 2007, 09:18 AM | #1 |
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Leaving magazines loaded, weaken spring tension???
I've always wondered about this and would be interested as to what the factual response would be. Does leaving a magazine/clip loaded weaken the spring tension?? It would seem that having the spring pushed down for extended periods of time would cause it to retain some of that crimp thereby causing improper feed in the long run? I try not to leave mags loaded for to long for this purpose. what is the consensus on this issue...or non issue.
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June 27, 2007, 09:26 AM | #2 |
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I'm no pro here, but all the peope that I know that shot everyday to twice a year all have there mags full. My friend is a special agent and his CCW gun is always loaded with one in the tube. I see your point but I have never heard any of my buds say they leave there mags empty. I know some people that have ther guns in there money safe loaded, just in caes. They never have had a proble firing it after a long term.
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June 27, 2007, 09:32 AM | #3 |
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loaded magazines
Do a search on this topic. It's been discussed a lot. Try this link: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...aded+magazines
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June 27, 2007, 10:35 AM | #4 |
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constant compression doesn't wear out springs..repeated compression does
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June 27, 2007, 11:20 AM | #5 |
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AH compliments of FindArticles:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...27/ai_99130369 Urban legend / myth. Interesting that there was a recommendation to cycle magazines but it was related to the ammo rather than the spring. |
June 27, 2007, 12:41 PM | #6 |
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Same thing with the military common thought, I've always heard people say to have your magazines loaded with 28 instead of 30 because 30 rounds causes wear on spring tension and may affect the rifle by improper cycling, jamming it up, etc.
I'm no pro either but I've never thought that was true in either case. And according to the article, it isn't. Thanks for that.
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June 27, 2007, 01:07 PM | #7 |
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There are a lot of improperly designed high capacity magazines these days. Downloading by one or two is not a bad idea. Over-compressing a poorly designed spring can weaken it.
Flexing a properly designed, and made, spring- within that springs design limits-does not hurt the spring. |
June 27, 2007, 01:13 PM | #8 |
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I can't confirm whether this is true or not but I have heard of people finding grandpa's 1911 from WWII in storage, sticking in a magazine that has been loaded for 50 years into the pistol and still firing.
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June 27, 2007, 01:31 PM | #9 |
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I wish I could find grandpas WWII 45.
Few years back one of the gunrags did a torture test of a Glock. Went 100000+ rounds. They reported that the mags would give it up about every 3 or 4000 rounds. They said they started downloading the mags by 2 rounds to save the mags some and when they did that the mags lasted the rest of the test. |
June 27, 2007, 01:34 PM | #10 |
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Re: Glock
As I said-"properly designed springs." |
June 27, 2007, 01:38 PM | #11 |
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From what i understand old springs say before 1920 or 1930 or so can and will take a " set " if left compressed . Modern metals wont , and in fact wear more from use than static tension .
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June 27, 2007, 04:05 PM | #12 |
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I have seen springs from the late 1700s that still work fine. The whole issue came to light with the modern high-capacity guns. The makers tried to squeeze as many rounds into the magazines as possible. Browning High Power mags were designed to last, but if you over stress the spring by trying to stuff 15-16 rounds in they will fail.
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June 27, 2007, 07:41 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
If you have any concern, just change out your springs every set reasonable interval. It's cheap insurance and you can leave your worries behind...
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June 27, 2007, 07:57 PM | #14 |
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If you are talking about original GI surplus .45 mags: every study shows after 6 months; an average reduction in tension of 5 oz's. Yes, it will still fire & operate; but the question is will spring tension be reduced?
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June 28, 2007, 06:41 AM | #15 |
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It would be hard to prove to me that "all" springs / mag designs could take 5-10 years of full compression without so much as a few ounces of spring rebound loss, so to say that any of them can, is a mute point, without testing every brand, design, style, & lot number...
that said, I'm sure there are quality springs / mag designs & materials that could withstand 5-10 years of compression without loss of effectiveness in the weapon, & quality spring compounds & designs that could minimize any rebound loss, possibly incuding treatments such as "cryoing", etc. ... however in an era of mass produced & cheapened manufacturing, & of maximizing the capacity of the magazine design while minimizing the size... I would suspect it would be difficult to find such a quality spring / mag today. I got the chance to look over a buddy's 9mm Calico rifle a few years ago, & while the quality of the rifle seemed a bit wanting, the design seemed far superiour to most newly designed rifles... of the design improvements that pertain to this thread, would be the helical feed magazines with the crank & clutch mechanism that allowed the springs tension to be reduced while loading the 50 or 100 round magazines, & the fact the the loaded mags could be stored with no tension on the spring, then be "cranked up" to full tension just before use... it's too bad IMO, that these got released just before the magazine capacity reducing rulings, effectively putting an end to such a forward thinking & inovative product...
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June 28, 2007, 08:23 PM | #16 |
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Spring, sproing, set, etc.
This topic will probably come up every so often as long as we use springs. And the accepted wisdom of the day has changed, as has the quality of the springs.
I have a few guns nearing the century mark, with original springs, and they work just fine. For them, I follow the rule taught me by my Grandfather. Never leave a spring under tension that you don't have to. The other main rule was don't dry fire (snap) the gun unless you have to. His primary gun was an Ithaca double barrel 12ga, stocked and choked (full and Full) to his specifications. It also has a third position on the safety, which allows the gun to be uncocked without dry firing. I have that gun, which turns 100 in two years. Works great. Incidentally, one of the selling points of that shotgun was that the springs were guaranteed never to take a set. I have a letter from Ithaca to my grandfather, dated 1949 reaffirming the guarantee on the springs. Never. And they meant it. Ithaca is gone, but those springs are still fine. Leaf springs, especially old leaf springs are the ones most commonly found to take a "set". Coil springs seldom do, but seldom is not never. But, remember, springs do shorten and weaken with use. For good quality springs, the amount of use before this becomes a problem is considerably greater that ever in the past, way beyond the average use of a lifetime. For about half my life, the accepted wisdom was "Don't leave mags loaded", today it seems to be "Doesn't matter". I would say, the best practice is what you feel comfortable with. Myself, if the gun (or mag) was made before say, 1950, I don't leave them loaded. Why risk it? On the other hand, modern springs, both in metal composition and heat treating are better than old ones. I have heard of a couple of long term examples, (from sources I trust) but they are anecdotal, and I cannot provide any verifiable details. One was a 1911A1 .45, found after nearly 40 years, fully loaded cocked and locked, in a dresser drawer. The gun, and the loaded magazine both functioned properly when fired. Another one is a few years back, an MP 40 German SMG was found inside a wall in a Dutch (or Belgian) house, along with several loaded mags. Again, the gun and mags were reported to work fine when fired. From personal experience, when I recovered some of my father's guns after his death, his 1911A1 had been in his dresser drawer, apparently untouched for several years. Not sure exactly how long, more than 5, but less than 20 years for certain. The gun was "gummy", and when I released the slide after clearing it, the slide only went about an inch forward, then stopped. He had 4 or 5 loaded mags with the gun. I did not fire them, so I can't say for certain if they would have worked, but I think they would have. I unloaded them, and a few weeks later, when I got everything to my home on the other side of the country, those mags, reloaded, have worked fine. And still do, years later. I am conducting my own experiment, I took a few mags for a Tec 9 and loaded them up about 3 years ago. I'll shoot one in a couple of years, to see what, it anything has happened to the spring. Today spring makers and spring(metal) experts generally agree that springs don't wear out from being held compressed, but wear out from cycling (compressed, uncompressed, compressed, etc), so I would have no worries about leaving modern pistol mags loaded for a few months, or even a couple of years. That said, if it is something you are going to trust your life to, then I would err on the side of caution.
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June 28, 2007, 08:50 PM | #17 |
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I have an AR-15 30 rnd mag that's been loaded since 1976. My dad got rid of his A1 and kept a mag planning to test it when he got another AR, which he never did. He sent it to me since I got an A3. Just waitin on a camcorder, he wants me to tape it for him.
I'll let ya'll know how it goes when I finally do it. I think it's going to work fine. |
June 28, 2007, 09:32 PM | #18 |
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How many of you have made a spring? I probably have made more than everyone here, combined.
Modern springs are the ones that seem to be causing problems-for the reasons I mentioned earlier. A spring may take a slight set the first time it is compressed. After that it should work indefinitely. |
June 28, 2007, 10:13 PM | #19 |
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I work armed security and every day I have to check out my m9 and 3 mags with 10 rounds each. they thought if they left them down 5 rounds it would save the springs, it hasn't. granted we have an assortment of crap mags, mostly pro-mag. thats why I leave my mags empty and keep my .357's loaded.
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June 29, 2007, 09:15 PM | #20 |
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FWIW, I have have several Mecgar 7rd blued 1911 mags loaded constantly (except fro the time it takes to get from the range to home, where they get reloaded) from as far back as 2001. All of them function fine.
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November 4, 2009, 11:57 PM | #21 |
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I don't know about other models but have a Glock 21 13 round magazine that I left loaded for 3 years. Thats right, 3 years. I didn't intentionally do it, because I use several other magazines that I regularly use at the range. Well I wondered this myself "concerning the topic" and shot off all the rounds in the 3 year loaded magazine. They shot flawlessly.
Whatever they did in glock magazine springs they did it right. |
November 5, 2009, 03:22 PM | #22 |
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Wow, I am suprised to see this thread come back up. Have you tried that magazine again, or did you only use the three-year-old loads? In other words, have you used it since and found it problem free?
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November 5, 2009, 04:08 PM | #23 |
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I have magazines that have been loaded for over 30 years that work fine.
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November 5, 2009, 05:41 PM | #24 |
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Just to put things into perspective:
Tomorrow I'll drive 500 km to my family. For the engine that'll mean 5 hrs at 2000 rpm. Each valve spring will be compressed every second revolution, or 5 x 60 x 2000 / 2 = 300,000 times. Roughly a thousand times per mile. So far the valve springs in my car have been compressed and released about a hundred million times. Changing valve springs is not on the inspection list. They'll be good for another one or two hundred million compressions. And people are worrying about magazine springs that will be a compressed and released a few hundred or thousand times at most...
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November 5, 2009, 05:42 PM | #25 |
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Leaving mags. loaded,weaken spring tension???
No, It doesn`t !
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