Opinions on firing a rare or expensive gun?

[Hawg]

He has never fired the gun himself, never even handles it without gloves on, on the rare occasions when it does come out of the case. Today the gun is worth approximately 30 times what he paid for it back then. Had he fired it the value would likely be less.

This is not really a gun, it is more a show piece, investment and a piece of frozen history.

It it rarely comes out of it's case it is not a show piece and there is no history in something like that.

[mavracer]

If it's been shot before and is in working order I'm gonna shoot it at least some

[damienph]

I don't think the OP is asking about shooting priceless museum pieces but shooting really nice examples, possibly unfired, of more common guns that have a much higher than average value because of their condition.

Several years ago I traded into a 1954 Colt Commander in a somewhat tattered box without the paperwork. The condition led everyone that looked at it to believe that it was unfired. I suspect that it may have been worth upwards of $1500 at that time but that was still substantially less than something built by Ed Brown or Les Baer or Nighthawk Custom or any others.

It is my favorite of the 5 1911s that I own and I have no regrets whatsoever about shooting it.

[springer99]

A C&R gun costing around $1800 is not one that I'd consider shooting very often, if at all. Collector value can really be dented heavily with added wear and tear. Plus any parts damage might be difficult to replace. I wouldn't have a problem shooting my Trapdoor Springfield, my 1870's-ish Martini-Henry or 1851Enfield Snyder conversion, but then they didn't cost me anywhere close to 2grand.

[ronl]

I have a '43 Colt Lend Lease 1911 A1 in 95% or maybe a little better. Probably will never fire it again. I have other 45's that are much more accurate if I want to scratch the itch.

[Cheapshooter]

My answer to that dilemma is simple..I don't own anything I wouldn't shoot. No safe queens, and no museum pieces in my "accuulation".

[5whiskey]

Everyone seems to put their answer in a box. Generally, I'm going to shoot a gun no matter the value or age... but there are some exceptions. My great-grandfather's shotgun circa 1880 or so? No way (not to mention it needs a BP shotgun load, which aren't exactly common). As others have said an original numbers matching luger? Negative.

Most guns WWI and later I will shoot, unless it's a historic piece with numbers matching parts that are prone to wear. A bolt action K98 Mauser? I would shot it even if it was numbers matching in pristine condition. It's a simple design that isn't likely to be harmed by firing it. A Luger, numbers matching? Probably rarely if ever.

[Ricklin]

Some folks are gun collectors, while others collect heavy boxes.

I'm a gun collector, Can't wait to shoot my LC Smith on it's hundredth birthday. My Smith is a very low serial number single barrel trap, it still smashes the targets.

Gotta wait till April 2018, I'll do my very best to break a 25 that day.

[dakota.potts]

I wouldn't take a tactical pistol course or shoot a rainy 3 gun match with it, but with a gun of historical significance or collector's value I would like to shoot a box now and again where feasible.

[kenny53]

I would not treat it like a truck gun but I would shoot it. I have a Remington
22 Rem Special. It is 90 years old, nowhere near the price of $1800 but I shoot it all the time.

The only gun I have that is close to your value in my M1A standard. I shoot that all the time. I only one I don't shoot all the time are the ones stuck in the back of the safe and I forgot that I have them.

Might as well enjoy it before Hillary takes them away and melts it down to make a Smart car.

[lordvader]

I would shoot it. It isn't going to devalue the weapon, unless it is an original never before fired still in its presentation box, if it had one. Then I would probably not fire it if I purchased it as, a collectors piece. Which is fine and dandy if you were an immortal. Its yours forever. But someone else who may eventually posses that weapon, whether family or stranger, may not think like you and decide their going to hunt or target shoot with it. So just enjoy it.

[SIGSHR]

Only caution I see is that for a rare or unusual design replacement parts will be extremely hard to find. Hey, they are hard to find for the Virginian Dragoon.

[Powermwt]

There are guns you buy and shoot and in some cases sell.

There are guns gifted with some story attached that you shoot but would never sell.

I have a flint lock French model ANXII pistol (1812) my grandfather bought so long a go I was a kid that I have never shot... same for another gift with a story, a very cool Remington .41 rimfire double derringer(1888-1891).

Do you run around shooting grandpa's model 38 Marlin made in the 1920s... sure but there is a chance it will break.

I have lots of older firearms, some worth a pretty penny but most are shot once in a while and most have a story attached, however there are a few that are better off not shot but admired only.

There is sedimental value associated with some guns as in some vehicles, low milage but in excellent condition!

[TRX]

If it was New-In-Box or so rare that replacement parts were unobtainable... I might not shoot it.

Otherwise, "Is gun. Is made to shoot."


An acquaintance of mine was wealthy enough to be able to collect and race antique racing cars. The collector types were appalled to see rock chips, oil streaks, and the occasional dent. Bo was unfazed; "These are racing cars. This is what they're *for*."

Seemed logical to me...

[mr bolo]

If it's actually a RARE GUN, I would never risk firing it, the history and rarity is more important than firing it, if something breaks on a rare gun , it will be a big loss, not just in money but history.

I have a Mint Russian SKS that appears to have never been fired, I keep it as a collectable

I have a well used Chi Com that is my range gun

I probably wouldnt even bother buying a RARE gun, because all your doing is paying to store it until you pass it on to the next guy, your just the caretaker.

a Expensive gun that is Not rare, but cost a lot of money, yes I would shoot it

[Bushmaster1313]

Life is too short to not shoot your best guns

[Jbar4Ranch]

I've shot my Liberator six, maybe seven, times with reduced .45acp loads. I probably won't shoot my Gyrojet because I only have six rounds for it, and they're pretty pricey.

[rshaw]

Very thought provoking comments in this thread, and the poll results surprise me! (I would have thought more people would choose the "keep in the safe" option. I have been struggling with this issue for a while- several comments really making an impression on me, such as:
- risk of breaking a numbered part- rare Luger P08 versus vintage Colt SAA
- mint NIB unfired, versus older gun obviously fired
- can't take them with you, so enjoy them now
- do I really want to be a caretaker and tie up $ ? or... call it an investment
- trade 1 collectable for 2 or 3 special shooters

Ah well.. Each has to settle this issue for one's self. I have a matching P08 Luger with one matching mag- I am SO tempted to shoot it just to see what that's like- BUT if after the 5th round or so, I would break the slide or kill the toggle... I would NOT be happy. So I'll have to wait for the paperwork on my recently acquired P08 shooter to come through- only 7 more months. (Dutch law)

Have to learn some patience I guess. And practise with my refinished ac43 P38 shooter. The collector's piece is the first Luger I have ever seen let alone bought, so that makes it special. I originally bought it with the intention to shoot it, and then got into the discussion of "breaking a numbered part."

[RickB]

I shoot my 1920 Commercial/"alphabet" Luger every year, putting 100 rounds through it in a friendly competition with a friend.

The gun wasn't in collectible condition when I got it, so no worries about reducing the value of it with a barrel change and refinish.
The last time I shot it, the firing pin retainer broke, a part of it fell down inside the frame, and while removing the grips to get access to it, the mainspring guide broke.

Neither part is serialized, so even if the gun had been numbers-matching, repair wouldn't change that.

But, the reason the retainer broke was because of damage to the breechblock caused by 90 years of shooting. The breechblock is a serialized part, and if the gun had been numbers-matching, and I wanted to maintain that, I'd have to decide to try to repair the original breechblock, replace it with a non-matching one for shooting, or just retire the gun from use.

Every time you shoot an old gun, you risk damaging it.

[pete2]

I don't have safe queens, everything in the safe has been fired by me. New Colt SAA, Python,etc. 1800.00 is a lot of money to pay for a gun, way too much to pay for one you're not gonna shoot. I also have a Citori XS Skeet gun and a 725 Sporting gun, shoot them a lot.

[rshaw]

"1800.00 is a lot of money to pay for a gun, way too much to pay for one you're not gonna shoot."
That's another way to look at it of course.

Any special suggestions re. ammo for a 9 mm P08? Our LGS suggested subsonic 150 gr Luger 9 mm. I tried it in my ac43 P38, and so far the Walther seems to be happy. But before I try that in my Luger shooter, I really want to make SURE it is not too much Most are suggesting SV FMJRN 115 gr or 124 gr 9 mm Luger. (not so easy to get here) Are there charts available which show the pressures recommended for P38 and Luger P08 against the pressures generated by different types of ammo? Have looked for these but, until now, in vain.

Thanks

[Slamfire]

If you do have an expensive firearm, don't be cheap and shoot old ammunition in the things. Few shooters know that ammunition deteriorates and the older it gets, the higher pressure it gets. This is due to gunpowder deterioration, gunpowder is a high energy compound that is breaking down the day it leaves the factory. Old ammunition has and will blow up firearms. A good rule of thumb is to shoot up all ammunition before it is 20 years old. Ammunition older than this is risky.

There has been a huge amount of cheap, military surplus ammunition on the market and it is not difficult to find accounts of weapons blown up with military surplus. This stuff was removed from military inventory because it was either to dangerous to keep in storage, or because it was too dangerous to issue. A couple of dangers to troops would be failure to function, or over pressure.

This link is from manufacturer's of the FG42 rifle, a $5,000 modern copy of the original. I cannot imagine what an original would run, hundreds of thousands of dollars? SMG Guns specifically voids the warranty if surplus ammunition is fired in their firearms, not because they are mean and nasty, or are ignorant, but because they have found that old military surplus will blow up guns. The pictures of a blown up FG42 is within the warnings on their page:

Ammo warnings/Info

http://smgguns.com/?page_id=965

As you can see, one $5,000 FG42 was reduced to a pile of junk with old military surplus ammunition. If you have something in this price range or up, I recommend you only shoot nice, new ammunition, and not go out on the cheap and fire old ammunition to save a buck.

[Jim Watson]

Rshaw: Ezell reports the original 9mm P ammunition, as tested in the USA in 1903 to be:
Light: 8gm/124gr bullet + .35gm/5.4gr powder = 315 mps/1033 fps from 100mm barrel
Heavy: 8gm/124gr bullet + .38gm/5.9gr powder= 334 mps/1095 fps from 100mm barrel.
That makes the powder slightly slower burning than Alliant Power Pistol. I once read an account of the powder used in early 9mm being doped with inert material to get the pressure curve the same as for the load in 7.65 Luger.

But that was in the old "ribbon spring" gun. Will the coil spring action introduced in 1906 take a "hotter" load? I don't think it should.

I cannot say about your 150 gr subsonic, but a friend's 1923 Finn with 9mm Tikka replacement barrel shot better with my handloaded 145 gr subsonic than anything on the market. My S/42 P08 shot reliably with Canadian WWII surplus.*

Nobody says what pressure their ammunition develops. It might not stay the same as they get different powder next quarter anyhow. All you can know is that a reputable maker will not exceed the SAAMI or CIP maximum.

Lee Jurras, founder of Super Vel, once tested several varieties of German WWII 9mm.* Contrary to legends of great power, it was within commercial specifications for chamber pressure. Velocity of late war ammo was high because of lightweight ersatz bullet materials like sintered iron.

*My experience and Mr Jurras' tests were many years ago; the wartime ammunition was more than 20 years old, but not by much, obviously not so much as to be damagingly deteriorated as Slamfire warns against.

[Hawg]

Few shooters know that ammunition deteriorates and the older it gets, the higher pressure it gets. This is due to gunpowder deterioration,

If that's true then the Civil War surplus I fired back in the 70's should have left a crater the size of new Mexico.

[rshaw]

Many thanks Slamfire, Jim, Hawg, Pete2, RickB, and everyone for these very helpful replies!! Food for thought for sure.